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Post by COBO on Sept 7, 2023 11:43:20 GMT
that would move closer to HD.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Sept 7, 2023 11:45:07 GMT
Update 7 September 2023 Between 24 April and 4 June 2023, we consulted on a proposal to extend route 223 from Harrow Bus Station to a new terminus at the Eastman Village development in Harrow. Our proposed extension would help to serve over 3,200 new homes, as well as residents and businesses along Harrow View. After carefully considering the feedback received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have made the decision to further extend the route to Harrow Weald, Oxhey Lane. This would require additional consultation. Therefore, we will extend the route to Harrow View, then run out of service to stand on Uxbridge Road remote from the route on an interim basis. The details of the stand are still subject to discussions with LB Harrow officers. We will carry out further consultation on the additional extension to Oxhey Lane later this year. Interesting, I assume this means sharing the 182's stand - maybe this was seen as preferable to creating a new stand on Harrow View? If going further up Courtney Avenue, it might have been more useful to instead go via Long Elms to terminate at Harrow Weald bus garage for some new local links? I still think TFL should have used this as an opportunity to link the developments to Wealdstone rather than following the H14. I'm thinking now TFL have something lined up for the H14 now there will be further consultation on the 223.
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 7, 2023 13:33:05 GMT
Update 7 September 2023 Between 24 April and 4 June 2023, we consulted on a proposal to extend route 223 from Harrow Bus Station to a new terminus at the Eastman Village development in Harrow. Our proposed extension would help to serve over 3,200 new homes, as well as residents and businesses along Harrow View. After carefully considering the feedback received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have made the decision to further extend the route to Harrow Weald, Oxhey Lane. This would require additional consultation. Therefore, we will extend the route to Harrow View, then run out of service to stand on Uxbridge Road remote from the route on an interim basis. The details of the stand are still subject to discussions with LB Harrow officers. We will carry out further consultation on the additional extension to Oxhey Lane later this year. Interesting, I assume this means sharing the 182's stand - maybe this was seen as preferable to creating a new stand on Harrow View? If going further up Courtney Avenue, it might have been more useful to instead go via Long Elms to terminate at Harrow Weald bus garage for some new local links? I still think TFL should have used this as an opportunity to link the developments to Wealdstone rather than following the H14. Heading to Oxhey Lane via Long Elms and Harrow Weald would reintroduce the old H15 that was cut in 1999. I wonder if this goes ahead, the 182 maybe cut back to the bus garage as I don’t think both 182 and 223 being needed for the bus garage to Oxhey Lane section
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 7, 2023 14:15:36 GMT
Interesting, I assume this means sharing the 182's stand - maybe this was seen as preferable to creating a new stand on Harrow View? If going further up Courtney Avenue, it might have been more useful to instead go via Long Elms to terminate at Harrow Weald bus garage for some new local links? I still think TFL should have used this as an opportunity to link the developments to Wealdstone rather than following the H14. Heading to Oxhey Lane via Long Elms and Harrow Weald would reintroduce the old H15 that was cut in 1999. I wonder if this goes ahead, the 182 maybe cut back to the bus garage as I don’t think both 182 and 223 being needed for the bus garage to Oxhey Lane section My assumption from TFL's notice was that the 223 would go direct up to the end of Harrow View to turn around. But it's possible it could go via Harrow Weald, which would be much more useful. Would give an alternative route between Harrow Weald and Harrow (avoiding the traffic congestion through Wealdstone), plus linking the Kodak developments to supermarkets near the bus garage. Might actually be cheaper overall to send the 223 via Harrow Weald, on the basis of the 182 being cut back to the bus garage. Oxhey Lane certainly doesn't need the high frequency of the 182.
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Post by COBO on Sept 7, 2023 16:22:09 GMT
I think another route like the H17 should do this extension instead of the 223.
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Post by busman on Sept 7, 2023 16:47:02 GMT
Interesting outcome. The further extension to Oxhey Lane will be interesting. I can think of two possibilities that would necessitate a consultation:
1. Sending the 223 via the unserved part of Courtenay Avenue and up Oxhey Lane itself. Part of Oxhey Lane is within the TfL boundary with some households around 1km away from their nearest TfL bus stop.
2. Via Long Elmes and then current 182 to Oxhey Lane to link Kodak estate with the supermarkets. The 182 could get chopped back to the bus garage. Assuming there is still adequate stand space as the 140 and 182 both used to terminate at the garage?
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 7, 2023 18:20:04 GMT
I think another route like the H17 should do this extension instead of the 223. why?
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Post by COBO on Sept 7, 2023 18:24:44 GMT
I think another route like the H17 should do this extension instead of the 223. why? Because if the 223 gets extended it would heavily mirror the H14 at least with the H17 it won’t be heavily mirrored or overlapped and it will provide new links.
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 7, 2023 18:27:17 GMT
Because if the 223 gets extended it would heavily mirror the 223 at least with the H17 it won’t be heavily mirrored or overlapped and it will provide new links. Sorry I don't get 'it would heavily mirror the 223' do you mean the 182?
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Post by COBO on Sept 7, 2023 18:33:51 GMT
Because if the 223 gets extended it would heavily mirror the 223 at least with the H17 it won’t be heavily mirrored or overlapped and it will provide new links. Sorry I don't get 'it would heavily mirror the 223' do you mean the 182? Sorry I meant the 223 will heavily mirror the H14. I meant the 223 between Harrow View and Northwick Park Hospital the 223 will mirror the H14. If I said the 182 I would have said 182. I said 223. I don’t think think that Harrow View to Northwick Park Hospital needs another bus.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 7, 2023 19:35:31 GMT
Interesting outcome. The further extension to Oxhey Lane will be interesting. I can think of two possibilities that would necessitate a consultation: 1. Sending the 223 via the unserved part of Courtenay Avenue and up Oxhey Lane itself. Part of Oxhey Lane is within the TfL boundary with some households around 1km away from their nearest TfL bus stop. 2. Via Long Elmes and then current 182 to Oxhey Lane to link Kodak estate with the supermarkets. The 182 could get chopped back to the bus garage. Assuming there is still adequate stand space as the 140 and 182 both used to terminate at the garage? If stand space is tight inside HD, there is also a stand on the road outside the garage which could be used alongside, requiring buses to turn around at the roundabout. I assume the N18 uses this stand being an RATP route? While it might be useful, I doubt the 223 would go up Oxhey Lane, I think TFL mentioned it would stand on Uxbridge Road. So it's just a question of whether the 223 will go direct via Courtenay Avenue, or via Harrow Weald (possibly replacing the 182 beyond the bus garage).
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Post by busman on Sept 8, 2023 7:48:57 GMT
Interesting outcome. The further extension to Oxhey Lane will be interesting. I can think of two possibilities that would necessitate a consultation: 1. Sending the 223 via the unserved part of Courtenay Avenue and up Oxhey Lane itself. Part of Oxhey Lane is within the TfL boundary with some households around 1km away from their nearest TfL bus stop. 2. Via Long Elmes and then current 182 to Oxhey Lane to link Kodak estate with the supermarkets. The 182 could get chopped back to the bus garage. Assuming there is still adequate stand space as the 140 and 182 both used to terminate at the garage? If stand space is tight inside HD, there is also a stand on the road outside the garage which could be used alongside, requiring buses to turn around at the roundabout. I assume the N18 uses this stand being an RATP route? While it might be useful, I doubt the 223 would go up Oxhey Lane, I think TFL mentioned it would stand on Uxbridge Road. So it's just a question of whether the 223 will go direct via Courtenay Avenue, or via Harrow Weald (possibly replacing the 182 beyond the bus garage). Yeah, that stand used to be used during the day before the 182 extension. I used to work nearby, but haven’t been there for a while so didn’t want to assume anything. I guess the route taken will depend upon what brings the most benefit to people living in the area. No doubt the developers of Eastman estate will prefer the 223 to run via Waitrose and Lidl. It also avoids potential conflict with people who don’t want a bus going past their house. Sending diesels into new roads in the suburbs wouldn’t be a good look against the current political backdrop. If I was a betting man, I would say an extension via Long Elmes and the 182 would be the outcome. Links to Harrow, Northwick Park and Wembley would be retained. However that drop in frequency from 5-8 bph to 2-3 bph on the section between Oxhey Lane and HD is quite steep and might discourage locals from using the bus. TfL and Harrow Council, over to you…
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 8, 2023 8:08:15 GMT
If stand space is tight inside HD, there is also a stand on the road outside the garage which could be used alongside, requiring buses to turn around at the roundabout. I assume the N18 uses this stand being an RATP route? While it might be useful, I doubt the 223 would go up Oxhey Lane, I think TFL mentioned it would stand on Uxbridge Road. So it's just a question of whether the 223 will go direct via Courtenay Avenue, or via Harrow Weald (possibly replacing the 182 beyond the bus garage). Yeah, that stand used to be used during the day before the 182 extension. I used to work nearby, but haven’t been there for a while so didn’t want to assume anything. I guess the route taken will depend upon what brings the most benefit to people living in the area. No doubt the developers of Eastman estate will prefer the 223 to run via Waitrose and Lidl. It also avoids potential conflict with people who don’t want a bus going past their house. Sending diesels into new roads in the suburbs wouldn’t be a good look against the current political backdrop. If I was a betting man, I would say an extension via Long Elmes and the 182 would be the outcome. Links to Harrow, Northwick Park and Wembley would be retained. However that drop in frequency from 5-8 bph to 2-3 bph on the section between Oxhey Lane and HD is quite steep and might discourage locals from using the bus. TfL and Harrow Council, over to you… The 223 would be a better use of resources along Uxbridge Road, the 182 is often empty on that section. Passengers to the east of that section can walk to the stops just north of the bus garage for a choice of the 258/340 into Harrow, while those nearer to the current 182 stand would find the H14 (or even the H19) to be much quicker into Harrow.
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 8, 2023 9:34:13 GMT
Yeah, that stand used to be used during the day before the 182 extension. I used to work nearby, but haven’t been there for a while so didn’t want to assume anything. I guess the route taken will depend upon what brings the most benefit to people living in the area. No doubt the developers of Eastman estate will prefer the 223 to run via Waitrose and Lidl. It also avoids potential conflict with people who don’t want a bus going past their house. Sending diesels into new roads in the suburbs wouldn’t be a good look against the current political backdrop. If I was a betting man, I would say an extension via Long Elmes and the 182 would be the outcome. Links to Harrow, Northwick Park and Wembley would be retained. However that drop in frequency from 5-8 bph to 2-3 bph on the section between Oxhey Lane and HD is quite steep and might discourage locals from using the bus. TfL and Harrow Council, over to you… That section is technically overbussed anyone as it’s been mentioned it carries fresh air a lot of the time. The only time the 182 is busy in that section is school times when the Hatch End high students converge to the Oxhey Lane terminus
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 8, 2023 12:10:12 GMT
From my understanding, the 223 will be running to Oxhey Lane via the H14 route. I don't see the point it's largely duplicating the H14. The only other option is to divert it via Harrow Weald/Long Elmes then the 182 to Oxhey Lane with the 182 cut back to the bus garage as others have said. Otherwise it's just taking passengers off the H14, which I don't believe is rammed
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