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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 21, 2023 18:36:52 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. I don't think it's the event that's talking. As has been mentioned London is a global hub for many things and this sort of thing is to be expected. I think the irritation among members comes down to issues with cyclists as a whole and this quite frankly is the last thing people want. The level of disruption this causes is ridiculous and it's hardly a global event to justify something that people can effectively do anyway. The London Marathon for example has people coming from all over the world and I think people can justify their local roads being closed for an event that people flock to globally. However the issue then starts when roads like the A12 are closed off and traffic backs up for miles and miles and makes it impossible to get anywhere just so some people can have a cycle around. It's fine closing normal roads for something like a marathon, not all roads in an area are closed and alternatives are available. The issues starts when routes like the 8 can't even use roads like the A12 and the 25 becomes a watered down version of the 86. This sort of event has its place, however the way it's executed is totally wrong. I'm sure a lot more effort can be put into planning a route that doesn't cause nearly as much disruption and allows people to live their normal lives, probably with only minor inconvenience as opposed to major inconvenience. Probably containing it towards a lot more of Central London where you can get the tube for short distances or maybe even using paths such as the capital ring instead.
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Post by twobellstogo on May 21, 2023 19:05:04 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. I don't think it's the event that's talking. As has been mentioned London is a global hub for many things and this sort of thing is to be expected. I think the irritation among members comes down to issues with cyclists as a whole and this quite frankly is the last thing people want. The level of disruption this causes is ridiculous and it's hardly a global event to justify something that people can effectively do anyway. The London Marathon for example has people coming from all over the world and I think people can justify their local roads being closed for an event that people flock to globally. However the issue then starts when roads like the A12 are closed off and traffic backs up for miles and miles and makes it impossible to get anywhere just so some people can have a cycle around. It's fine closing normal roads for something like a marathon, not all roads in an area are closed and alternatives are available. The issues starts when routes like the 8 can't even use roads like the A12 and the 25 becomes a watered down version of the 86. This sort of event has its place, however the way it's executed is totally wrong. I'm sure a lot more effort can be put into planning a route that doesn't cause nearly as much disruption and allows people to live their normal lives, probably with only minor inconvenience as opposed to major inconvenience. Probably containing it towards a lot more of Central London where you can get the tube for short distances or maybe even using paths such as the capital ring instead. The capital ring would be completely unsuitable for RideLondon : too narrow and too bumpy in places. For an event like RideLondon, it needs really to be a lengthy Tour de France style road circuit, and I don’t think it would really cut it staying in Central London. The rest of your post I am really struggling with as it’s dripping with contradictions, and as I’ve already burned bridges with two forum members I’m going to try not to do it again with a third.
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Post by WH241 on May 21, 2023 19:13:48 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. It's not a toxic thread. This is one of the downfalls of the forum if people have a differing opinion it's somehow treated as wrong. You might consider it a petty issues but others who will be disrupted have just as much right to put their point across even if its just one days disruption.
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Post by WH241 on May 21, 2023 19:16:42 GMT
Made a dedicated thread to list the bus diversions and also general discussion to avoid clogging up the upcoming changes thread.
Sniped
d*mn that's some long list And there is my point just look at that list of bus services disrupted! The disruption stenches from central London to Debden!
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Post by northlondon83 on May 21, 2023 19:18:27 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. It's not a toxic thread. This is one of the downfalls of the forum if people have a differing opinion it's somehow treated as wrong. You might consider it a petty issues but others who will be disrupted have just as much right to put their point across even if its just one days disruption.
The initial purpose of the thread isn't toxic but some people make it to be that way
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Post by twobellstogo on May 21, 2023 19:20:37 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. It's not a toxic thread. This is one of the downfalls of the forum if people have a differing opinion it's somehow treated as wrong. You might consider it a petty issues but others who will be disrupted have just as much right to put their point across even if its just one days disruption.
Heated, not toxic - which I am largely responsible for in this case as my view is very much in the forum minority on this topic and I’ve not been shy in putting it over.
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Post by northlondon83 on May 21, 2023 19:23:19 GMT
d*mn that's some long list And there is my point just look at that list of bus services disrupted! The disruption stenches from central London to Debden! I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. There maybe some people in the race training for something bigger like the Tour de France, or even the Olympics and this gives them inspiration to try.
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Post by southlondon413 on May 21, 2023 19:58:02 GMT
And there is my point just look at that list of bus services disrupted! The disruption stenches from central London to Debden! I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. There maybe some people in the race training for something bigger like the Tour de France, or even the Olympics and this gives them inspiration to try. That wouldn’t go down well. Just using Surrey as an example and it was clear residents didn’t want the race and thankfully SCC listened and withdrew funding. I suspect it would be the case for the three day Essex event as well.
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 22, 2023 13:04:05 GMT
Not sure why people are getting so argumentative about it and in fact it's become quite a toxic thread for such a petty issue. I don't think it's the event that's talking. As has been mentioned London is a global hub for many things and this sort of thing is to be expected. I think the irritation among members comes down to issues with cyclists as a whole and this quite frankly is the last thing people want. The level of disruption this causes is ridiculous and it's hardly a global event to justify something that people can effectively do anyway. The London Marathon for example has people coming from all over the world and I think people can justify their local roads being closed for an event that people flock to globally. However the issue then starts when roads like the A12 are closed off and traffic backs up for miles and miles and makes it impossible to get anywhere just so some people can have a cycle around. It's fine closing normal roads for something like a marathon, not all roads in an area are closed and alternatives are available. The issues starts when routes like the 8 can't even use roads like the A12 and the 25 becomes a watered down version of the 86. This sort of event has its place, however the way it's executed is totally wrong. I'm sure a lot more effort can be put into planning a route that doesn't cause nearly as much disruption and allows people to live their normal lives, probably with only minor inconvenience as opposed to major inconvenience. Probably containing it towards a lot more of Central London where you can get the tube for short distances or maybe even using paths such as the capital ring instead. Just looking quickly through the Marathon's wiki page, it seems to have started out pretty small (with only 1/7 of the number of participants today) to become something which as you say attracts people from across the world to compete in -- in fact, this last year's RideLondon has a significantly higher number of participants than the first London Marathon. A globally established event has to start somewhere and who knows, maybe RideLondon will become as globally renowned as the Marathon in a few years? The Tour de France most certainly wasn't the world-renowned famed cycling race it is today back when it launched.
The issue with London in general seems to be a lack of alternative routes whenever major roads are closed (especially those that are suitable to be traveled along by buses).
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Post by SILENCED on May 22, 2023 13:10:48 GMT
I don't think it's the event that's talking. As has been mentioned London is a global hub for many things and this sort of thing is to be expected. I think the irritation among members comes down to issues with cyclists as a whole and this quite frankly is the last thing people want. The level of disruption this causes is ridiculous and it's hardly a global event to justify something that people can effectively do anyway. The London Marathon for example has people coming from all over the world and I think people can justify their local roads being closed for an event that people flock to globally. However the issue then starts when roads like the A12 are closed off and traffic backs up for miles and miles and makes it impossible to get anywhere just so some people can have a cycle around. It's fine closing normal roads for something like a marathon, not all roads in an area are closed and alternatives are available. The issues starts when routes like the 8 can't even use roads like the A12 and the 25 becomes a watered down version of the 86. This sort of event has its place, however the way it's executed is totally wrong. I'm sure a lot more effort can be put into planning a route that doesn't cause nearly as much disruption and allows people to live their normal lives, probably with only minor inconvenience as opposed to major inconvenience. Probably containing it towards a lot more of Central London where you can get the tube for short distances or maybe even using paths such as the capital ring instead. Just looking quickly through the Marathon's wiki page, it seems to have started out pretty small (with only 1/7 of the number of participants today) to become something which as you say attracts people from across the world to compete in -- in fact, this last year's RideLondon has a significantly higher number of participants than the first London Marathon. A globally established event has to start somewhere and who knows, maybe RideLondon will become as globally renowned as the Marathon in a few years? The Tour de France most certainly wasn't the world-renowned famed cycling race it is today back when it launched.
The issue with London in general seems to be a lack of alternative routes whenever major roads are closed (especially those that are suitable to be traveled along by buses).
Bet the council's rubbed their hands with glee at all the additional people being caught by their LTN cameras ... Probably thinking up some haired brained scheme on which to squander this windfall.
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Post by twobellstogo on May 22, 2023 13:30:29 GMT
I don't think it's the event that's talking. As has been mentioned London is a global hub for many things and this sort of thing is to be expected. I think the irritation among members comes down to issues with cyclists as a whole and this quite frankly is the last thing people want. The level of disruption this causes is ridiculous and it's hardly a global event to justify something that people can effectively do anyway. The London Marathon for example has people coming from all over the world and I think people can justify their local roads being closed for an event that people flock to globally. However the issue then starts when roads like the A12 are closed off and traffic backs up for miles and miles and makes it impossible to get anywhere just so some people can have a cycle around. It's fine closing normal roads for something like a marathon, not all roads in an area are closed and alternatives are available. The issues starts when routes like the 8 can't even use roads like the A12 and the 25 becomes a watered down version of the 86. This sort of event has its place, however the way it's executed is totally wrong. I'm sure a lot more effort can be put into planning a route that doesn't cause nearly as much disruption and allows people to live their normal lives, probably with only minor inconvenience as opposed to major inconvenience. Probably containing it towards a lot more of Central London where you can get the tube for short distances or maybe even using paths such as the capital ring instead. Just looking quickly through the Marathon's wiki page, it seems to have started out pretty small (with only 1/7 of the number of participants today) to become something which as you say attracts people from across the world to compete in -- in fact, this last year's RideLondon has a significantly higher number of participants than the first London Marathon. A globally established event has to start somewhere and who knows, maybe RideLondon will become as globally renowned as the Marathon in a few years? The Tour de France most certainly wasn't the world-renowned famed cycling race it is today back when it launched.
Got it in one, as far as I am concerned. Thanks for making me feel less of a pariah. I remember the 1981 marathon - watching it as a small child made me determined that one day I’d take part. And now twice I’ve been on the 89, destination marathon start
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Post by londonbuses on May 22, 2023 13:51:46 GMT
I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. I agree with this, if it took a different route every year then it wouldn't be met with so much opposition. It would also make the course itself much more interesting. The fact it affects the same areas year after year means everyone it affects just becomes annoyed of the disruption. I personally was very relieved when it stopped being funded by Surrey as I hated the disruption it caused. If the course was different every year then people would know they would have maybe 10 years before it returned to their area, so they would be much more supportive.
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Post by northlondon83 on May 22, 2023 13:56:42 GMT
I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. I agree with this, if it took a different route every year then it wouldn't be met with so much opposition. It would also make the course itself much more interesting. The fact it affects the same areas year after year means everyone it affects just becomes annoyed of the disruption. I personally was very relieved when it stopped being funded by Surrey as I hated the disruption it caused. If the course was different every year then people would know they would have maybe 10 years before it returned to their area, so they would be much more supportive. The only drawback is that it takes a huge amount of planning to change a route. This would have to be done months in advance. The marathon is different though because it's far more well known. It feels more iconic to keep the same route each time. Plus apart from the first few km, it's relatively flat from Woolwich to Tower Bridge and to the Isle of Dogs and back. I still wouldn't be happy if it got scrapped, many runners and cyclists for Marathon and Ride London respectively trained for months. It's not easy to run a marathon. Runners may have to overcome sickness or injury before the marathon too
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Post by ronnie on May 22, 2023 14:50:06 GMT
And there is my point just look at that list of bus services disrupted! The disruption stenches from central London to Debden! I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. There maybe some people in the race training for something bigger like the Tour de France, or even the Olympics and this gives them inspiration to try. Well I will lovingly tell the organisers to plonk ride London in your part of London and have them close the entire area. Plus the marathon, the big half, umpteen 10k’s. Leave my area of London alone, we have had enough of LTN / empty cycle lane c*** already Only the wearer knows where the shoe pivhes
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Post by twobellstogo on May 22, 2023 15:14:40 GMT
I know it causes disruption but I really don't see why it should be cancelled just to please people in East London and Essex. They could always hold it in a different part of London each year. Why not for example have it around Croydon/Bromley boroughs and into Tandridge, some if the steepest hills in London and makes a change in scenery. There maybe some people in the race training for something bigger like the Tour de France, or even the Olympics and this gives them inspiration to try. Well I will lovingly tell the organisers to plonk ride London in your part of London and have them close the entire area. Plus the marathon, the big half, umpteen 10k’s. Leave my area of London alone, we have had enough of LTN / empty cycle lane c*** already Only the wearer knows where the shoe pivhes Thank you for that. What an awful thing to say. Designed totally to wind people up : congratulations, you’ve managed it with me.
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