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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 11, 2023 8:01:58 GMT
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 11, 2023 13:45:03 GMT
2.5 years isn't enough, a life is a life. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 11, 2023 14:15:42 GMT
2.5 years isn't enough, a life is a life. Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? |
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 11, 2023 14:25:02 GMT
2.5 years isn't enough, a life is a life. Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? no I'm not suggesting that. What I meant that it's still a life lost. The sentence should be doubled for him to face justice. Regardless of whether you accidentally or purposefully kill someone else it is a serious offense and getting away with 2.5 years for a major offense is having it easy. |
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Post by TB123 on Aug 11, 2023 14:31:36 GMT
Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? no I'm not suggesting that. What I meant that it's still a life lost. The sentence should be doubled for him to face justice. Regardless of whether you accidentally or purposefully kill someone else it is a serious offense and getting away with 2.5 years for a major offense is having it easy. We need more robust sentences for driving-based offences generally. There's always nuances, including genuine accidents or guilty pleas, but in an instance like this where someone purposefully accelerated and jumped a red light to save, a minute or two at best and also defamed the poor lad he hit in a court of law, claiming he was not paying attention and using his phone, only for CCTV to prove that was false. I totally understand the frustration in those circumstances at such a lenient sentence even with a guilty plea. Nothing less than double-digit years seems acceptable for an offence like this to me, in my (non legal-trained) opinion. |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 11, 2023 14:34:12 GMT
2.5 years isn't enough, a life is a life. Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? I'd assume he means a longer sentence, personally though you will always get bad drivers in any industry but the bus industry in London at least has one of the worst rotas/ shift patterns around , I believe most companies have drivers doing 4 stints of 7 days on 2 off then a nice block of 4 days off together ! Plus spread overs and changing between early lates and nights , plus enforced overtime In my opinion it's dangerous and ludicrous , surely there is a better way to work ? even a 4 on 4 off or a 5 and 3 off something has to be better than the current system it's crazy ! and definitely cannot help with fatigue etc doing 60 hours driving for most that time . RIP to the young boy . |
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 11, 2023 15:13:20 GMT
Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? I'd assume he means a longer sentence, personally though you will always get bad drivers in any industry but the bus industry in London at least has one of the worst rotas/ shift patterns around , I believe most companies have drivers doing 4 stints of 7 days on 2 off then a nice block of 4 days off together ! Plus spread overs and changing between early lates and nights , plus enforced overtime In my opinion it's dangerous and ludicrous , surely there is a better way to work ? even a 4 on 4 off or a 5 and 3 off something has to be better than the current system it's crazy ! and definitely cannot help with fatigue etc doing 60 hours driving for most that time . RIP to the young boy . I would be intrigued to get more details on this case. As for the rota, this is something an incident like this could have raised if one of the reasons established was the driver was tired. Then the judge could have emphasised this as an action for TfL. That is the only way it changes, i.e. TfL realise that this is a safety issue. Similar to how aviation accidents have lead to better practices. Also, I am not sure about the legalities of this, but I believe it is not illegal to go passed amber, so he must have gone passed it when it went red but not clear. Also, accelerating does not mean you are going fast. I suspect if he pleaded not guilty, it might have been more difficult to prosecute him. The sentence seems fine to me. This is not equivalent to someone killing someone else with premeditation. Hopefully, other drivers use this as a learning as it is quite common for drivers to accelerate passed amber (all drivers do it not just bus drivers). |
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 11, 2023 15:20:26 GMT
I'd assume he means a longer sentence, personally though you will always get bad drivers in any industry but the bus industry in London at least has one of the worst rotas/ shift patterns around , I believe most companies have drivers doing 4 stints of 7 days on 2 off then a nice block of 4 days off together ! Plus spread overs and changing between early lates and nights , plus enforced overtime In my opinion it's dangerous and ludicrous , surely there is a better way to work ? even a 4 on 4 off or a 5 and 3 off something has to be better than the current system it's crazy ! and definitely cannot help with fatigue etc doing 60 hours driving for most that time . RIP to the young boy . I would be intrigued to get more details on this case. As for the rota, this is something an incident like this could have raised if one of the reasons established was the driver was tired. Then the judge could have emphasised this as an action for TfL. That is the only way it changes, i.e. TfL realise that this is a safety issue. Similar to how aviation accidents have lead to better practices. Also, I am not sure about the legalities of this, but I believe it is not illegal to go passed amber, so he must have gone passed it when it went red but not clear. Also, accelerating does not mean you are going fast. I suspect if he pleaded not guilty, it might have been more difficult to prosecute him. The sentence seems fine to me. This is not equivalent to someone killing someone else with premeditation. Hopefully, other drivers use this as a learning as it is quite common for drivers to accelerate passed amber (all drivers do it not just bus drivers). Accelerating when the lights are amber isn't advisable though, amber means get ready to stop, not speed up. The driver was still in the wrong. However rotas are something that should be looked into, is it not possible to have a rota with 5 out of 7 days on per week, with the days off switching per week. The varying shift patterns would also tire the body and is dangerous for one's health especially as he is a driver meaning he is responsible for the safety of himself, his passengers and other road users. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 11, 2023 15:59:45 GMT
Are you suggesting the driver gets capital punishment? no I'm not suggesting that. What I meant that it's still a life lost. The sentence should be doubled for him to face justice. Regardless of whether you accidentally or purposefully kill someone else it is a serious offense and getting away with 2.5 years for a major offense is having it easy. Why should the sentence be doubled? That wouldn't change anything and it probably wouldn't deter other drivers from jumping red lights because it's something that happens every day and in vast majority of cases there are no serious consequences. Obviously there's no excuse for what he did, and you would hope for better from a professional driver, but he has shown genuine remorse and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. The sentence seems quite appropriate to me. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 11, 2023 16:04:09 GMT
no I'm not suggesting that. What I meant that it's still a life lost. The sentence should be doubled for him to face justice. Regardless of whether you accidentally or purposefully kill someone else it is a serious offense and getting away with 2.5 years for a major offense is having it easy. Why should the sentence be doubled? That wouldn't change anything and it probably wouldn't deter other drivers from jumping red lights because it's something that happens every day and in vast majority of cases there are no serious consequences. Obviously there's no excuse for what he did, and you would hope for better from a professional driver, but he has shown genuine remorse and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. The sentence seems quite appropriate to me. Although the death wasn't intentional, he still killed someone. Just because there are no serious consequences of jumping a red light most of the time, doesn't mean that you should do it. If other drivers followed suit by jumping red lights more often, then we'll have more cases of the above. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 11, 2023 16:05:59 GMT
Why should the sentence be doubled? That wouldn't change anything and it probably wouldn't deter other drivers from jumping red lights because it's something that happens every day and in vast majority of cases there are no serious consequences. Obviously there's no excuse for what he did, and you would hope for better from a professional driver, but he has shown genuine remorse and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. The sentence seems quite appropriate to me. Although the death wasn't intentional, he still killed someone. Just because there are no serious consequences of jumping a red light most of the time, doesn't mean that you should do it. If other drivers followed suit by jumping red lights more often, then we'll have more cases of the above. Of course you shouldn't jump red lights and as I said the sentence seems quite appropriate to me. |
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Post by WH241 on Aug 11, 2023 16:10:02 GMT
Why should the sentence be doubled? That wouldn't change anything and it probably wouldn't deter other drivers from jumping red lights because it's something that happens every day and in vast majority of cases there are no serious consequences. Obviously there's no excuse for what he did, and you would hope for better from a professional driver, but he has shown genuine remorse and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. The sentence seems quite appropriate to me. Although the death wasn't intentional, he still killed someone. Just because there are no serious consequences of jumping a red light most of the time, doesn't mean that you should do it. If other drivers followed suit by jumping red lights more often, then we'll have more cases of the above. Have you not been on the road recently? Red light jumping is out of control and this includes bus drivers! It’s got to the point where I will not cross a road until I am sure cars have come to a complete stop. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 11, 2023 16:17:00 GMT
Although the death wasn't intentional, he still killed someone. Just because there are no serious consequences of jumping a red light most of the time, doesn't mean that you should do it. If other drivers followed suit by jumping red lights more often, then we'll have more cases of the above. Red light jumping is out of control and this includes bus drivers! It’s got to the point where I will not cross a road until I am sure cars have come to a complete stop. Yes I have and what is the point you're trying to make? |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 11, 2023 16:32:07 GMT
Although the death wasn't intentional, he still killed someone. Just because there are no serious consequences of jumping a red light most of the time, doesn't mean that you should do it. If other drivers followed suit by jumping red lights more often, then we'll have more cases of the above. Have you not been on the road recently? Red light jumping is out of control and this includes bus drivers! It’s got to the point where I will not cross a road until I am sure cars have come to a complete stop. There is a problem in London particularly (once your within the North Circ if coming from East) with "boy racers" driving like complete bell ends and little to no traffic police about or police at all for that matter , but without the details of the case could be a number of reasons we are all human at the end of the day and make mistakes just a very sad life changing one in this case . |
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Post by WH241 on Aug 11, 2023 16:43:43 GMT
Have you not been on the road recently? Red light jumping is out of control and this includes bus drivers! It’s got to the point where I will not cross a road until I am sure cars have come to a complete stop. Yes I have and what is the point you're trying to make? That red light jumping is a serious problem in London. Your initial replied made it sound like red light jumping is a rarity when it's anything but that. |
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