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Post by Gellico on Jun 30, 2021 19:37:57 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 30, 2021 21:55:02 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering. If they were to win the S2 then they would possibly need some more small buses as the S4 doesn't use bigger then 9m.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 30, 2021 22:51:41 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering. If they were to win the S2 then they would possibly need some more small buses as the S4 doesn't use bigger then 9m. The S4 has been using 9.7m MMC's from the P13's allocation - I rode one along the full S4 last Saturday and it didn't encounter any issues so who knows, maybe bigger buses upon it's next tender.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 1, 2021 5:41:29 GMT
If they were to win the S2 then they would possibly need some more small buses as the S4 doesn't use bigger then 9m. The S4 has been using 9.7m MMC's from the P13's allocation - I rode one along the full S4 last Saturday and it didn't encounter any issues so who knows, maybe bigger buses upon it's next tender. That would be good if it could. I think the restrictions for bigger buses may be in the Carshalton on the Hill area so a Highdown to St Helier Stn may be ok for 10.2m buses.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 1, 2021 11:47:11 GMT
The S4 has been using 9.7m MMC's from the P13's allocation - I rode one along the full S4 last Saturday and it didn't encounter any issues so who knows, maybe bigger buses upon it's next tender. That would be good if it could. I think the restrictions for bigger buses may be in the Carshalton on the Hill area so a Highdown to St Helier Stn may be ok for 10.2m buses. I’m not sure a 10.2m could do it as a few of the roads around the St Helier area are fairly tight
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Post by intro on Jul 1, 2021 20:17:21 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering. I doubt it, becuase the 433 currently uses 10.8m buses, and it seems unlikely that it would be downgraded to 8.7m buses, these buses also seem unlikely for the 322, because, the 8.9m buses frequently get full, and considering that 322 has had 10.8 m buses operate on it, in the past, and there will not be a PVR increase, it seems likely that the 322, will get shorter buses, and more likely that it will get 9.3/9.7m BYD E200 MMC's or 10.7m Caetano e.city gold's, or 10.7m Caetano H.2 City gold's, considering that abellio had an H2 city gold demonstrator. Another reason why they will probably not use optare metrocities, is because optare are notoriously late with their deliveries.
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Post by galwhv69 on Jul 1, 2021 20:26:51 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering. I doubt it, becuase the 433 currently uses 10.8m buses, and it seems unlikely that it would be downgraded to 8.7m buses, these buses also seem unlikely for the 322, because, the 8.9m buses frequently get full, and considering that 322 has had 10.8 m buses operate on it, in the past, and there will not be a PVR increase, it seems likely that the 322, will get shorter buses, and more likely that it will get 9.3/9.7m BYD E200 MMC's or 10.7m Caetano e.city gold's, or 10.7m Caetano H.2 City gold's, considering that abellio had an H2 city gold demonstrator. Another reason why they will probably not use optare metrocities, is because optare are notoriously late with their deliveries. However whilst the 322 has seen longer buses on occasions, they struggle on the back roads in West Norwood/Gipsy Hill due to parked cars and lots of vehicles using these roads. Sometimes the 8.9m buses can struggle at peak times as well. Though as you say, extra capacity is often needed.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 1, 2021 22:38:11 GMT
With Optare's timely announcement of a 8.7m Metrocity EV I would imagine both the 322 and 433 will receive Metrocities and likely Optare become a firm choice of Abellio going forwards given they are now the only company to offer every EV option currently demanded by TFL tendering. I doubt it, becuase the 433 currently uses 10.8m buses, and it seems unlikely that it would be downgraded to 8.7m buses, these buses also seem unlikely for the 322, because, the 8.9m buses frequently get full, and considering that 322 has had 10.8 m buses operate on it, in the past, and there will not be a PVR increase, it seems likely that the 322, will get shorter buses, and more likely that it will get 9.3/9.7m BYD E200 MMC's or 10.7m Caetano e.city gold's, or 10.7m Caetano H.2 City gold's, considering that abellio had an H2 city gold demonstrator. Another reason why they will probably not use optare metrocities, is because optare are notoriously late with their deliveries. The 322 has already been confirmed as receiving single door electric single deckers - we’ll see if this changes but I doubt it. It should be receiving 9.7m MMC’s (there is no 9.3m examples) in an ideal world as should a number of routes stuck with 8.9m/9.0m vehicles. Longer buses than that are not ideal due to tight sections & turns - just because a longer bus has gone out on occasion doesn’t mean it’s suitable to do so. Gellico wasn’t suggesting the 433 would receive 8.7m Metrocitys but that both routes might receive Optares of a relevant length - 8.7m for the 322 & 10.8m for the 433
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 2, 2021 10:49:09 GMT
I doubt it, becuase the 433 currently uses 10.8m buses, and it seems unlikely that it would be downgraded to 8.7m buses, these buses also seem unlikely for the 322, because, the 8.9m buses frequently get full, and considering that 322 has had 10.8 m buses operate on it, in the past, and there will not be a PVR increase, it seems likely that the 322, will get shorter buses, and more likely that it will get 9.3/9.7m BYD E200 MMC's or 10.7m Caetano e.city gold's, or 10.7m Caetano H.2 City gold's, considering that abellio had an H2 city gold demonstrator. Another reason why they will probably not use optare metrocities, is because optare are notoriously late with their deliveries. The 322 has already been confirmed as receiving single door electric single deckers - we’ll see if this changes but I doubt it. It should be receiving 9.7m MMC’s (there is no 9.3m examples) in an ideal world as should a number of routes stuck with 8.9m/9.0m vehicles. Longer buses than that are not ideal due to tight sections & turns - just because a longer bus has gone out on occasion doesn’t mean it’s suitable to do so. Gellico wasn’t suggesting the 433 would receive 8.7m Metrocitys but that both routes might receive Optares of a relevant length - 8.7m for the 322 & 10.8m for the 433 The 322 receiving Optares might actually end up fitting quite well with the Caetano presence elsewhere in the company. I know the MetroDeckers at Tower Transit use Siemens systems, and the Caetano eCity Golds also use Siemens systems. I'm taking a punt and assuming that the MetroCitys will also be using Siemens driveline and charging systems which while not completely standardising hill allow some form of common knowledge and use of common equipment.
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Post by intro on Jul 2, 2021 21:24:15 GMT
The 322 has already been confirmed as receiving single door electric single deckers - we’ll see if this changes but I doubt it. It should be receiving 9.7m MMC’s (there is no 9.3m examples) in an ideal world as should a number of routes stuck with 8.9m/9.0m vehicles. Longer buses than that are not ideal due to tight sections & turns - just because a longer bus has gone out on occasion doesn’t mean it’s suitable to do so. Gellico wasn’t suggesting the 433 would receive 8.7m Metrocitys but that both routes might receive Optares of a relevant length - 8.7m for the 322 & 10.8m for the 433 The 322 receiving Optares might actually end up fitting quite well with the Caetano presence elsewhere in the company. I know the MetroDeckers at Tower Transit use Siemens systems, and the Caetano eCity Golds also use Siemens systems. I'm taking a punt and assuming that the MetroCitys will also be using Siemens driveline and charging systems which while not completely standardising hill allow some form of common knowledge and use of common equipment. Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London
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Post by LJ17THF on Jul 2, 2021 21:48:19 GMT
The 322 receiving Optares might actually end up fitting quite well with the Caetano presence elsewhere in the company. I know the MetroDeckers at Tower Transit use Siemens systems, and the Caetano eCity Golds also use Siemens systems. I'm taking a punt and assuming that the MetroCitys will also be using Siemens driveline and charging systems which while not completely standardising hill allow some form of common knowledge and use of common equipment. Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London I'm sure the 322 can take 10.8m buses, but I wouldn't say it's ideal, because, as you mentioned, it has tight corners. However, 10.2m buses might be best for the route if longer buses are needed.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 2, 2021 22:11:30 GMT
The 322 receiving Optares might actually end up fitting quite well with the Caetano presence elsewhere in the company. I know the MetroDeckers at Tower Transit use Siemens systems, and the Caetano eCity Golds also use Siemens systems. I'm taking a punt and assuming that the MetroCitys will also be using Siemens driveline and charging systems which while not completely standardising hill allow some form of common knowledge and use of common equipment. Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London I don’t think you understand because no one said it’s not impossible because it’s actually seen that length of bus before but just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s ideal. St Gothards Road and a particular left turn at Clapham North are the two notable problems on the route with the second one actually pointed out to me by a driver who said he did it but it’s not ideal. The best compromise would be 9.7m buses as it would be a step up from now and I’ve used the 322 regularly since Connex took over so I remember the 322 in it’s awful, unreliable days. Gipsy Hill doesn’t need any consideration - it’s cleared for long buses (and double deckers) and the steep hill shouldn’t be an issue for electric buses which generally have better acceleration than a diesel bus
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Post by Unorm on Jul 2, 2021 23:07:06 GMT
Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London As much as I'd love something as short as 10.2m realistically it'd be a nightmare if two 10.7m Caetanos were to fatefully meet on St Gothard Road/St Cloud Road turn which is contractually stated to be 322's highway restriction. I imagine two 9.7s meeting there would be a just fit but that's the limit of my imagination, as two 8.9s can squeeze past each other worst case scenario with little difficulty. The entirety of 322's normal route has even seen double deckers in some shape or form as well, a diverted 37 over Landor Road, Atlantic/Railton Roads had a double decker 2 regularly before it's renumbering to the 322 we know today, the Hail & Ride section seen a diverted 432/468, whilst Gipsy Road and Gipsy Hill is usually covered by rail replacement whenever Southern closes the line. For there to be a safe full allocation of 10.2m+ the route would have to change, whether it's minor in one direction avoiding the St Cloud Road turn or major like outright abandoning one direction in favour of Hamilton Road having the other direction which seems more hassle than is any worth in the grand scheme of it. A shame 322 and G1 didn't upgrade from their 9.0m DRLs to 9.3m Darts similar to 291/484/P5. I'll treasure 322 essentially allocated a 10.2m during refurbishment of the 05reg LDPs for incoming G1 (exhibit A, London Bus Routes by Adam). as well as 9.3m 8301 making several appearances towards the end of Abellio's 2010-2015 stint.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 3, 2021 0:04:58 GMT
Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London As much as I'd love something as short as 10.2m realistically it'd be a nightmare if two 10.7m Caetanos were to fatefully meet on St Gothard Road/St Cloud Road turn which is contractually stated to be 322's highway restriction. I imagine two 9.7s meeting there would be a just fit but that's the limit of my imagination, as two 8.9s can squeeze past each other worst case scenario with little difficulty. The entirety of 322's normal route has even seen double deckers in some shape or form as well, a diverted 37 over Landor Road, Atlantic/Railton Roads had a double decker 2 regularly before it's renumbering to the 322 we know today, the Hail & Ride section seen a diverted 432/468, whilst Gipsy Road and Gipsy Hill is usually covered by rail replacement whenever Southern closes the line. For there to be a safe full allocation of 10.2m+ the route would have to change, whether it's minor in one direction avoiding the St Cloud Road turn or major like outright abandoning one direction in favour of Hamilton Road having the other direction which seems more hassle than is any worth in the grand scheme of it. A shame 322 and G1 didn't upgrade from their 9.0m DRLs to 9.3m Darts similar to 291/484/P5. I'll treasure 322 essentially allocated a 10.2m during refurbishment of the 05reg LDPs for incoming G1 (exhibit A, London Bus Routes by Adam). as well as 9.3m 8301 making several appearances towards the end of Abellio's 2010-2015 stint. To add further, I've also seen a not in service 133 run along Railton Road towards Herne Hill (no idea why a 133 was there but whatever ) and on Gipsy Hill, as well as the rail service which I've had a London General PDL on, I've also been on a diverted 3 up Gipsy Hill when it had it's short lived part Gemini allocation due to Dulwich Wood Park being shut.
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Post by redexpress on Jul 3, 2021 7:29:59 GMT
Well it would make more sense to have 10.7m Caetano's, i take the 322 regularly, and there would only be 2 or 3 places, where it just be a tighter squeeze, not impossible, to go around some tight corners, something else that should also be taken into consideration is Gipsy Hill, which is quite a steep hill, the 8.9m e200's at the moment, are very good buses, and handle it well, although i am not quite sure about the current electric bus options out there at the moment, or whether, this is even being taken into consideration by Abellio London I don’t think you understand because no one said it’s not impossible because it’s actually seen that length of bus before but just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s ideal. St Gothards Road and a particular left turn at Clapham North are the two notable problems on the route with the second one actually pointed out to me by a driver who said he did it but it’s not ideal. The best compromise would be 9.7m buses as it would be a step up from now and I’ve used the 322 regularly since Connex took over so I remember the 322 in it’s awful, unreliable days. Gipsy Hill doesn’t need any consideration - it’s cleared for long buses (and double deckers) and the steep hill shouldn’t be an issue for electric buses which generally have better acceleration than a diesel bus Just to add re: the Clapham North turn, it is certainly not cleared for longer buses. This is why, when it was the 355 that served Landor Road, buses towards Mitcham had to run via Stockwell instead, with Landor Road being served only by buses towards Brixton.
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