Disable and the Underground

[Deleted]

I am becoming concerned that TfL & the Disabilty lobby are getting out of Control and are encouraging dangerous situations to potentially occur in the name of Disability rights.

I wonder what the HSE might say if this were not concerning disability. The HSE recently put out a memo to it staff telling them that they could not move chairs in a conference room.

Lets see what TfL says about Wheelchair users on the underground.

Trains can have steps up to 8" up or down from the Plateform Level. Platforms can have gaps of upto several inches between the platform and the train entrances as well as the step up or down.

In the event of breakdown or emergency, trains sometimes have to be evacuated, occasionally in tunnel sections away from stations. If you use a wheelchair you may be asked to remain on the train until it is moved, if the situation is not life-threatening. In situations that are life-threatening, or if the delay is likely to be prolonged, all passengers who cannot walk will be assisted from the train.

Its is unexplained quite how they wil get a wheelchair user along a rail tunnel. The only semi practial way would be by stretcher but even that would be fraught with difficulties.

Even if you assume the train is evacuated at a station it might not have a lift and if you need to evacute people quickly thats a big risk.

If you use a wheelchair and you are planning to make a journey by Tube involving any station without step-free access, you are strongly advised to travel with sufficient helpers to get you to and from platforms, and on and off trains.


Whilst I can see the need to make transport as accessable as possible for the disabled, paramount must be safety and what is in the best interests for the majority of the passengers.

There is probably less of a safety risk in the open outer sections of the Undergound which are also less crowded and the services less frequent but the practicalities of getting on and off the train and negotiating steps remain.

In the Inner & Central sections of the Underground you have to seriously question whether it is sensible to encourage or even allow the severly disable to travel on the Underground. I think the risks are just to great. It's daunting enogh to face somewhere like Oxford Circus or Victoria if you are able bodied let alone in a wheelchair.

TfL used and probably still do insist on only folding Prams & buggies being taken on the Underground on grounds of safety but we now have then actively trying to encourage the disabled to use the underground. Its just not sensible. Hopefully most of them have more sense then TfL.

[John tuthill]

Bob, You've reiterated what I've been saying for sometime. What is going to be the cost alone of making all UG stations 'DDA friendly'? As you also say de-training in the event of a terrorist attack- it will be self preservation, and if some kind hearted people help an invalid, and subsequently they are injured by these actions, watch the'ambulance chasers' get the writs out! I cannot imagine any wheelchair user in their right mind wanting to travel on the UG in the middle of the rush hour. I've said it before, and I'm not sorry for repeating myself- there should have been a card issued to people who needed it for them to travel in London by taxi. All taxis now have a ramp, you are taken from door to door in safety-it's only the zealots who want to be treated as 'equals' as someone wrote on another page, if they want equality, how come they have special parking spaces? When is equality EQUAL to all of us? I'm still working in town, have been since February, and I STILL haven't seen a wheelchair on a bus or at a stop. Some drivers have said they do have wheelchairs on a regular basis. I wonder if it's only in the suburbs and not Central London?

[Deleted]

jtuthill said:

Bob, You've reiterated what I've been saying for sometime. What is going to be the cost alone of making all UG stations 'DDA friendly'? As you also say de-training in the event of a terrorist attack- it will be self preservation, and if some kind hearted people help an invalid, and subsequently they are injured by these actions, watch the'ambulance chasers' get the writs out! I cannot imagine any wheelchair user in their right mind wanting to travel on the UG in the middle of the rush hour. I've said it before, and I'm not sorry for repeating myself- there should have been a card issued to people who needed it for them to travel in London by taxi. All taxis now have a ramp, you are taken from door to door in safety-it's only the zealots who want to be treated as 'equals' as someone wrote on another page, if they want equality, how come they have special parking spaces? When is equality EQUAL to all of us? I'm still working in town, have been since February, and I STILL haven't seen a wheelchair on a bus or at a stop. Some drivers have said they do have wheelchairs on a regular basis. I wonder if it's only in the suburbs and not Central London?

The major concern is safety. A wheelchair user or disabled user would only have to cause a small delay for a serious build up of passsengers in a station. I did one see a near major incident at Oxford Circus in the height of the rush hour. A disabled person wanted to get down to the platform so one of the station staff shut down one of the escalators to walk him down. The crush that built in the booking hall was seriously dangerous.
The Underground at peak is working at maximum capacity and the slightest thing can cause major problems. Even the trains are running every few minutes so a minute or two delay while a wheelchair user gets on of of can build up major delays. If you had just one wheelchair user per train the problems are horrendous.

Its just the disability lobby gone made. If you think about it logical its not helping the disabled. TfL are going to spend Billions to try to provide acces to a service that is clearly unsuited to the disabled.

There are already low floor buses & the mobility scheme to provide them with card specifically adapted to their particular
need.

The Billons that will be wasted on trying to make the Underground accesable would be far better spent helping the disable in other ways.

I suspect though that theDisability Lobby will blunder on.

We already have them attacking shops that cannot provide access to the disabled. Some have partial access. Most of these shops are small shops, many are very old buildings. Its totally inpractical as well as being cost prohibitive but these zealots care not a jot.

If its reasonably practicable then of course shops should be accessable but in many cases it not practicable.