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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2004 7:58:27 GMT
Feel free to disguss your opinion.
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Post by DLA 365 on Jul 8, 2004 23:19:32 GMT
TBH, I don't really know how trolleybuses work I can suggest two alternatives though: 1.) Double decker tram - these are used on Hong Kong Island, and have a top speed of 25mph and can carry about 70 passengers in total. They run on narrow gauge tracks embedded in the street and cables overhead. Verdict: cheap to run and pollution free. But a bit slow 2.) Light rail - what Croydon uses (in London they are called trams, but I call it Light Rail ;D) Faster speeds (of 40mph in the city centre) consisting of wither one or two cars. They can carry more passengers than a double deck tram, but are more risky to pedestrians and other road users due to their speeds. Platforms need to be constructed for passengers to alight/ board. Verdict: expensive to construct, but fast and pollution free
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2004 7:38:06 GMT
It's been said that trolleybuses have all the disadvangtges of the bus and the tram. They certainly are pollution-free but the fact that they are flexible is not always an advantage. They do not command respect from other road users like tramways do with their fixed routes. If you put them on a separate roadway with all the expense of concrete, drainage etc why not put some rails down and run trams in the first place?
Certainly an interesting debate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2004 8:20:21 GMT
dla 365. Trolleybus operation was not that much different to tramway operation. The driver took power normally with his left foot on a power pedal. This operated contactors which cut out the resistance similar to a tram. Power was taken from the overhead, the left wire I believe being the positive and the other the negative return. On trams, the negative returns thru the rails. Power was fed to the overhead at certain intervals by heavy power cables, under which drivers were supposed to coast to avoid an arc. Some overhead points were manual, some operated by a solenoid on the wire activated by the driver taking power or coasting.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2005 12:32:08 GMT
TBH, I don't really know how trolleybuses work I can suggest two alternatives though: 1.) Double decker tram - these are used on Hong Kong Island, and have a top speed of 25mph and can carry about 70 passengers in total. They run on narrow gauge tracks embedded in the street and cables overhead. Verdict: cheap to run and pollution free. But a bit slow 2.) Light rail - what Croydon uses (in London they are called trams, but I call it Light Rail ;D) Faster speeds (of 40mph in the city centre) consisting of wither one or two cars. They can carry more passengers than a double deck tram, but are more risky to pedestrians and other road users due to their speeds. Platforms need to be constructed for passengers to alight/ board. Verdict: expensive to construct, but fast and pollution free Trams are far to expensive and ill suited to Londons congested and crowded streets. Most of the Croydon Network runs over old railway lines, where it does run over normall roads there have been endless problems and accidents. They take year to install are very very expensive and very inflexible. Trollybuses are probably a far better option. Modern systems suffer from none of the problems mentioned and need little infrustructure The latest trollybus systems do not require overhead lines for the power, they are feed from an induction power rail layed into the road. Its not a track but a metal strip set into the road. It is only live as the vehicle passes over it. The pickup shoe on the vehicle has to remain in close alignment with this metal strip. This used to be a problem but with modern technology it can be kept closely aligned regardless of the actual vehicle position. Improvements in battery technology also mean these trollybuses are not confined totally to the track , they can overtake and they can also run at least a couple of miles on the batteries alone. Trolly buses are probably the way forward. Trams are only suitable in very limited circumstances. Every recent tram system in the UK is loosing money on a very large scale.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 18, 2005 12:23:38 GMT
DLA365, If only you knew!! The trams you talk about in Hong Kong, are ex London Transport! Shipped out in 1952. I've been there and on some of the them you can make out traditional names such as 'Brush', English Electric' etc. I think they were all E/1 types. When I was there, there were old Bristols, and of course the XA/XFs ended up out there. One item I remember seeing years ago on Tomorrows World, was a trolley bus, which out of town used O/h, in town there was a massive flywheel beneath it, with enough kinetic energy to go out the other side and put the poles up again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2005 9:47:40 GMT
Sorry jtuthill - think you'll find Hong Kong trams have no connexion with London - certainly weren't 2nd hand. Maybe they had some controllers or other equipment. They are replaced anyway every few years with a new build.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 28, 2005 7:12:27 GMT
Roofbox, I stand corrected. Had a long dead great uncle who worked in Charlton, told me the Felthams went to Leeds, and it may have been some 'bits' went to Honk Kong. It was a few years ago when I was there, and no queeen Victoria wasn't on the throne, and I must admit they certainly had a London 'look' about them. It was before the XA/XFs ended up out there, although there were lots of Bristols(buses that is) on the streets.It's interesting though the way our rejects end up out there, one of the pages on the forum shows a VA out there
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2005 14:09:09 GMT
Yes, some former London trams went to Leeds (late 30s I believe) and many of the Felthams in the early 50s. (System closed 1959). Some Felthams were also sold to Sunderland. I believe some London controllers went to Egypt (Cairo?) and the Manx Electric Rly reputedly has some London controllers it has yet to use!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2005 15:55:10 GMT
Some interesting views here. Many think that Trollybuses are slow which is not true. They can accelerate & deccelerate rapidly much faster then a tram. They can also run at speeds faster then a tram although they would be unlikely to do so due to speed limits. Modern trollybuses can overtake. There are some experimental systems around that do not need overhead rails. They pick there power up from a metal strip in the road which is only energised as the trollybus passes over it. Even with overhead lines the equipment is now a lot lighter & less obtrusive then the old trollybus systems. Trollybuses also have the advantage that the emit very little noise at all. In some cases they have been deliberatly made noiser so that people can here them coming
Trams are very expensive & very inflexible and take years to build. They also pose considerable safety risks where they are not running on dedicated lines. Croydon is a good example of those risks. Where the Trams share the road with other vehicles & pedestrians there have been endless accidents. Trams are also noisy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2005 20:45:39 GMT
There was a decent article on the re-introduction of Trolleys in Rome in the August edition of Buses magazine - awesome! Yes they are very quick and very quiet, environmentally friendly, etc. etc,...... Everything a motor bus isn't some would say.
The same applies to trams, though obviously they carry a much larger number of people, often (as on many sections of Croydon's Tramlink) at very much greater speeds.
Accidents on Tramlink are almost always caused by idiots who decide to drive up the dedicated pathway, or ignore the red lights at intersections. Just like accidents with motor buses really - you can't legislate for the occasional lunatic!!
Most of the regular Tramlink users are desperately hoping for an increase in service intervals to ease overcrowding, especially on the Wimbledon branch. Almost 100% reliability and punctuality is a huge attraction to the travelling public.
Tony
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Post by Steve80 on Aug 20, 2005 22:50:32 GMT
Most of the regular Tramlink users are desperately hoping for an increase in service intervals to ease overcrowding, especially on the Wimbledon branch. Almost 100% reliability and punctuality is a huge attraction to the travelling public. Tony Like me. I can never get a seat when I use it and the frequency at nights is poor
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2005 6:44:36 GMT
Most of the regular Tramlink users are desperately hoping for an increase in service intervals to ease overcrowding, especially on the Wimbledon branch. Almost 100% reliability and punctuality is a huge attraction to the travelling public. Tony Like me. I can never get a seat when I use it and the frequency at nights is poor It comes down to costs. Every single new tram service in the UK is making massive losses. They will not increase the frequency at night as the passenger loadings are not there. Its probably only a matter of time before they have to substantial increase the fares to try to get the losses down to a more acceptable level. There is unlikely to be much expansion of trames in the UK due to the high costs. A few places have considered them but one a through investigation into costs have been made have dropped it, The other problem in the UK is there is not the road space for dedicated Tram lanes and mixing trams and other traffic has as can be seen in Croydon not worked well. They are ok when running on on the old rail tracks but as soon as the come into conflict with other traffic there are many accidents. They are currently looking at reducing the maximum speed for trams in these areas to try to reduce the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2005 21:43:26 GMT
Well, I haven't tried to insert a link before, so let's see how we get on: www.tbus.org.uk/routes.htmLooking around the site, the system does appear to use overhead cables so the overtaking problem would persist. Would be good to know comparative costs for vehicles and infrastructure for tram, trolley and conventional bus.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2005 19:01:55 GMT
Well, I haven't tried to insert a link before, so let's see how we get on: www.tbus.org.uk/routes.htmLooking around the site, the system does appear to use overhead cables so the overtaking problem would persist. Would be good to know comparative costs for vehicles and infrastructure for tram, trolley and conventional bus. Even if they use overhead lines overtaking is not a problem with modern trollybuses. They can just lower the pick up and overrtake using their batteries. Modern Trollybuses can cover about 5 miles minimum at up to about 25mph on their batteries
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