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Post by redexpress on Nov 23, 2020 11:02:12 GMT
The only hybrid that wasn't ordered was the Wrightbus Integral hybrid or Wrightbus Gemini2 HEV - I can't say for sure but I can only presume when tested with Arriva & First, the savings and economics involved were inferior especially with Arriva who were also trialing B5LH's at the same time. I also suspect reliability might of been an issue given all Wrightbus hybrid products do seem to be unreliable given London Central's WHY's, Travel London's own Electrocitys & Arriva's HW's all required upgrades just to get them to operate better as they all had lengthy periods of going missing and in the case of the Travel London examples, never received any having been disposed off still in original form. As for the VDL DB300, Wikipedia (so take with a pinch of salt) says 462 were built of which most were for Arriva so whilst not 1000's, it's certainly not the worst return. First have their 5 still going with Tower Transit and WDL1 of Go-Ahead is now with Carousel I believe. It also depends on what is defined as success, none of them were reliable, and they were all expensive (I think most of the initial ones were about double the price of a diesel bus) Initially there were no follow on orders, then had 20 ADL buses funded by Green bus grant (RATP ADH 45003-22) and the earlier pair had some modifications, but eventually left London. Arriva also got a batch of 20 (HV 7-26), with the earlier ones all being rebuilt to same spec (from memory HV 1-6 went to Sweden for the rebuild of hybrid equipment). Metroline also had 5 of the ADL version (TEH 915-919) which were also later modified, but are now withdrawn. They were more cautious and follow on batch in 2010 was only 10 buses (TEH 1105-1114) It was only after all the development and improvements that were found to be needed did orders really start (a trickle from 2010, but only became common 2012-2013), and really it was only Volvo and ADL that developed them far enough to get production orders. Once production settled down there was a premium of about £110,000 over diesel version, which could be recovered in fuel saving (about 21-27% depending on route), which gave a payback of about 7-9 years for urban double decks, however those on less congested routes, were nearer 10-11 years to recover costs. The fuel savings on single decks weren’t sufficient to justify it and no more were ordered. The downfall of these early hybrids were their unreliability, and non standard parts, which often meant months off the road awaiting replacement parts to be especially made. Some were scrapped, others fitted with conventional engines and reused elsewhere. However had TfL never ordered them it is possible that reliable hybrids may never have been developed, or only happened at least 3 years later. But in 50 years time bus historians will see them as a interim solution used for a decade before zero emission became the norm. I believe all of the early hybrid orders were part-funded via the Green Bus Fund. This funding was allocated to TfL, so it was TfL who decided how this money was distributed (i.e. how many buses and for which routes).
Certainly all of the 60-reg hybrids (20x ADH for LU, 20x HV for Arriva and 10x TEH for Metroline) were Green Bus funded. The 61-reg TEHs with Metroline, as well as the first 13 E40Hs for Abellio (for route 188) were also Green Bus funded, and I think the 11-reg HVs for Arriva were also GB funded.
From 2012 operators had become confident enough in the economics of hybrid operation that they were able to put in bids for hybrid operation without any additional funding being needed. I believe the 3/N3 contract that started in Feb 2012 was the first fully hybrid contract that did not involve Green Bus funding.
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Post by orangejamieboss on Nov 30, 2020 22:00:23 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any.
Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so.
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Post by TB123 on Nov 30, 2020 22:03:51 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. 71? Runs from Fulwell (north of the Thames) yet runs entirely South of the river. Same for the K3
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 30, 2020 22:12:38 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. Blue Triangle operated the 367 briefly .... just checking ... yeah they did for 5 months
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Post by M1104 on Nov 30, 2020 22:29:38 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. Victoria Garage¹ for a while did the 344 on Sundays with midibuses, the route's northbound terminus then being London Bridge Station. Though the depot is not in North London it is North of the Thames. ¹ - the basement section coded GB (under GM)
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Post by kmkcheng on Nov 30, 2020 22:42:07 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. HT for a short time operated the N2 when it was shortened to Trafalgar Square-Crystal Palace. At some point during 1999/2000, AR, SF and DX each had an allocation on the 68 For a few years, First operated the 1/N1 from Dagenham (DM), Hackney (H) and Northumberland Park (NP)
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Post by TB123 on Nov 30, 2020 23:24:40 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. HT for a short time operated the N2 when it was shortened to Trafalgar Square-Crystal Palace. At some point during 1999/2000, AR, SF and DX each had an allocation on the 68 For a few years, First operated the 1/N1 from Dagenham (DM), Hackney (H) and Northumberland Park (NP) The 1, N2 and 68 all cross north of the Thames however
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Post by vjaska on Nov 30, 2020 23:29:59 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. Blue Triangle was one of the main operators contracted to the 60 for a period from memory Metrobus ran the 953 mobility route which ran from Scrattons Farm near Dagenham to Chase Cross and I believe this was run from Orpington with dead runs via the M25
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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2020 5:46:35 GMT
Is 171 old stand at Holborn still in existence? Is RV1s old stand at Covent Garden’s still in existence?
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Post by LJ17THF on Dec 1, 2020 6:44:27 GMT
Is RV1s old stand at Covent Garden’s still in existence? Last time I went there, it was still there, used by coaches, as was the penultimate stop.
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Post by redexpress on Dec 1, 2020 12:16:15 GMT
Can anyone think of examples of North London garages operating routes entirely in South London? I can't recall if there is any. Certainly there are examples of the other way round, with South London garages operating routes entirely on the North Bank of the river (Abellio with routes 24, 27 and 414 from QB) all doing so. 71? Runs from Fulwell (north of the Thames) yet runs entirely South of the river. Same for the K3 FW also run 371 and 419 south of the river (of course until recently 419 used to cross the river). FW (and TF) account for quite a few examples in the past; 131, 337, 406, 418, 465, K1, K2 and K4 have all been operated from one of the Fulwell sheds at some point, as well as the 71 and K3 mentioned. 337 and 406 have also operated from Hounslow in the past.
In the same area Brentford have operated the 485 and 493.
Also London & Country (and later TGM) operated a few South London routes from their small Hounslow base, i.e. 485, K5, K6, R61.
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Post by COBO on Dec 5, 2020 12:51:46 GMT
When did TFL start the all over 100% red livery? When did TfL start making buses have a 80% red livery and allowing buses keep there liveries at skirt level?
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 5, 2020 13:54:09 GMT
When did TFL start the all over 100% red livery? When did TfL start making buses have a 80% red livery and allowing buses keep there liveries at skirt level? I think around 2013 that TFL made buses become 100% red.
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Post by galwhv69 on Dec 5, 2020 14:00:21 GMT
When did TFL start the all over 100% red livery? When did TfL start making buses have a 80% red livery and allowing buses keep there liveries at skirt level? I think around 2013 that TFL made buses become 100% red. 2012? As the 493's SE's already arrived fully red (12 reg) whilst buses such as E151 (11 reg) had the skirt
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Post by bus12451 on Dec 5, 2020 14:26:17 GMT
When did TFL start the all over 100% red livery? When did TfL start making buses have a 80% red livery and allowing buses keep there liveries at skirt level? Late 2011 was when the 100% red livery rule came into play. The 436 and 453 lost their bendys that year, brand new Enviro400s (SN61 plates) replaced them. All of them were delivered with a plain red livery, except E173, which entered service with a grey skirt (I'm not sure why).
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