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Post by wirewiper on Jan 14, 2019 10:26:42 GMT
So I drove Newbury Park to Southend Victoria on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. <snip> LoadingsLoads were very light going to Southend. I suspect most people from London were successfully redirected to c2c. Presumably most people in towns outside of London have access to a car or a lift so made alternative arrangements to get home. The capacity really was needed from Southend Airport to Newbury Park. On both occasions, the bus/coach that followed me to Southend was nowhere to be seen on the return. There were dozens of people waiting, most with bulky luggage in tow. Both times I left full with several standees and poorly secured suitcases. The controllers asked me where the second bus was and I had no information to tell them. I welcomed visitors to the UK and expressed sympathy for the fact they would be spending the next two hours of their life on a red London bus. Having said that, I got all of the people on, which a 50 odd seater coach wouldn't have managed. <snip> Maybe a better idea would have been to have a dedicated non-stop coach service operating between Southend Airport and Newbury Park, or possibly even Stratford? Or a link to Southend Central for c2c. This could have been coordinated to meet flight arrivals and departures and coaches would have had the capacity for luggage.
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 14, 2019 10:28:28 GMT
Twitter has been on fire today with customer feedback on rail replacement services in South, South East and South West London! A reflection of the inherent difficulties in planning and resourcing work of such an ad-hoc nature. Ugh, not surprising at all. I've had a bad experience myself with SWR RRS myself. Waited ages at Kingston for the bus, finally came after waiting half an hour or so. Got as far as New Malden, then the driver took the wrong turn at Traps Lane them started heading back to Kingston 🙄. It took an hour just to get to Wimbledon, and this was after 2200! Isn't there some kind of route training that can be done before hand or something? Signs are usually attached to lamposts to show line of route. Unfortunately some drivers have been known to use a SatNav, as was discovered a few years ago when a RRS D/D was deroofed at Norbiton station!
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Post by redexpress on Jan 14, 2019 10:46:09 GMT
Ugh, not surprising at all. I've had a bad experience myself with SWR RRS myself. Waited ages at Kingston for the bus, finally came after waiting half an hour or so. Got as far as New Malden, then the driver took the wrong turn at Traps Lane them started heading back to Kingston 🙄. It took an hour just to get to Wimbledon, and this was after 2200! Isn't there some kind of route training that can be done before hand or something? Signs are usually attached to lamposts to show line of route. Unfortunately some drivers have been known to use a SatNav, as was discovered a few years ago when a RRS D/D was deroofed at Norbiton station! Physical signs are not provided for most National Rail jobs. They rely on maps of varying quality - many of which are utterly useless. That's before you even take into account those drivers who cannot or will not read a map anyway (I stress this only applies to ***some*** drivers, not all).
From my many travels on NR rail jobs I can relate to all of the complaints above. I've had to step in to direct drivers more times than I can remember. The blame for all this lies squarely with the TOCs. If they could be bothered to pay for drivers to undertake route learning (not in their own time), and produce signage where necessary, a lot of these problems could be avoided. Unfortunately for most TOCs rail replacement is just not something they can be bothered with.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 14, 2019 10:48:21 GMT
Any idea who's running the GWR replacements at Slough (to Ealing and Hillingdon)?
I know Reading Buses was involved - here's 1211 doing Hayes & Harlington - Ealing Broadway shorts* flic.kr/p/2aYsZqY I have also seen a photo of an MMC at Hillingdon, which I cannot locate right now. Services operated were: - Slough-Hillingdon Underground non-stop, every 30 minutes - Slough-Ealing Broadway calling at Langley, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and Southall, every 30 minutes - Hayes & Harlington-Ealing Broadway calling at Southall, every 30 minutes interworked with the Slough service to give a bus every 15 minutes over this section. On Monday 24th only a minibus shuttle service also operated Langley-Iver-West Drayton (Iver station is closed on Sundays). For Hanwell, West Ealing, Acton Main Line and stations on the Greenford Branch ticket acceptance was in place on TfL buses and also the Underground between Ealing Broadway, North Acton and Greenford. *journeys to and from Slough need to be single-decked due to the low bridge at Langley Station
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Post by sid on Jan 14, 2019 11:00:07 GMT
Signs are usually attached to lamposts to show line of route. Unfortunately some drivers have been known to use a SatNav, as was discovered a few years ago when a RRS D/D was deroofed at Norbiton station! Physical signs are not provided for most National Rail jobs. They rely on maps of varying quality - many of which are utterly useless. That's before you even take into account those drivers who cannot or will not read a map anyway (I stress this only applies to ***some*** drivers, not all).
From my many travels on NR rail jobs I can relate to all of the complaints above. I've had to step in to direct drivers more times than I can remember. The blame for all this lies squarely with the TOCs. If they could be bothered to pay for drivers to undertake route learning (not in their own time), and produce signage where necessary, a lot of these problems could be avoided. Unfortunately for most TOCs rail replacement is just not something they can be bothered with.
I've had to act as an unpaid pilot to a few drivers on rail replacement services. In my experience the quality varies considerably, some operators are very professional and ensure that their drivers know exactly where they are going whilst some are pretty hopeless. I'm afraid I don't agree with you that the blame lies with the TOC, they sub contract the job out to a reputable operator who then have to sub contract out to various other operators at busy times. Surely it is up to the sub contractors to make sure their drivers know what they are doing? Experienced rail replacement drivers will know most routes like the back of their hand, the problems come at busy times and when drivers are called in at the last minute due to sickness etc and are thrown in at the deep end in areas that they are unfamiliar with.
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Post by redexpress on Jan 14, 2019 11:14:37 GMT
Physical signs are not provided for most National Rail jobs. They rely on maps of varying quality - many of which are utterly useless. That's before you even take into account those drivers who cannot or will not read a map anyway (I stress this only applies to ***some*** drivers, not all).
From my many travels on NR rail jobs I can relate to all of the complaints above. I've had to step in to direct drivers more times than I can remember. The blame for all this lies squarely with the TOCs. If they could be bothered to pay for drivers to undertake route learning (not in their own time), and produce signage where necessary, a lot of these problems could be avoided. Unfortunately for most TOCs rail replacement is just not something they can be bothered with.
I've had to act as an unpaid pilot to a few drivers on rail replacement services. In my experience the quality varies considerably, some operators are very professional and ensure that their drivers know exactly where they are going whilst some are pretty hopeless. I'm afraid I don't agree with you that the blame lies with the TOC, they sub contract the job out to a reputable operator who then have to sub contract out to various other operators at busy times. Surely it is up to the sub contractors to make sure their drivers know what they are doing? Experienced rail replacement drivers will know most routes like the back of their hand, the problems come at busy times and when drivers are called in at the last minute due to sickness etc and are thrown in at the deep end in areas that they are unfamiliar with. In the case of SWT/SWR, it seems that the TOC allocates individual diagrams to different operators. The TOC manages the job centrally themselves, and produce the maps and instructions themselves - so surely they are responsible for ensuring that these maps and instructions are up to scratch? I'm afraid it's not just last-minute sickness that leads to unfamiliar drivers being called up. Often TOCs just hand out the job to just about anyone, regardless of whether they have any experience in the local area at all.
In cases where the entire job is allocated to one operator (who may then subcontract), it depends what's in the contract between the TOC and the lead operator. If the lead operator has undertaken to devise the route / produce maps / provide pilots etc then yes, it's their responsibility. If not, it's the TOC that has to bear the overall responsibilty.
Of course each individual operator and each driver still has their own responsibilities - as they would on any job - such as not driving into a bridge, as happened at Isleworth for example.
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Post by sid on Jan 14, 2019 11:25:25 GMT
I've had to act as an unpaid pilot to a few drivers on rail replacement services. In my experience the quality varies considerably, some operators are very professional and ensure that their drivers know exactly where they are going whilst some are pretty hopeless. I'm afraid I don't agree with you that the blame lies with the TOC, they sub contract the job out to a reputable operator who then have to sub contract out to various other operators at busy times. Surely it is up to the sub contractors to make sure their drivers know what they are doing? Experienced rail replacement drivers will know most routes like the back of their hand, the problems come at busy times and when drivers are called in at the last minute due to sickness etc and are thrown in at the deep end in areas that they are unfamiliar with. In the case of SWT/SWR, it seems that the TOC allocates individual diagrams to different operators. The TOC manages the job centrally themselves, and produce the maps and instructions themselves - so surely they are responsible for ensuring that these maps and instructions are up to scratch? I'm afraid it's not just last-minute sickness that leads to unfamiliar drivers being called up. Often TOCs just hand out the job to just about anyone, regardless of whether they have any experience in the local area at all.
In cases where the entire job is allocated to one operator (who may then subcontract), it depends what's in the contract between the TOC and the lead operator. If the lead operator has undertaken to devise the route / produce maps / provide pilots etc then yes, it's their responsibility. If not, it's the TOC that has to bear the overall responsibilty.
Of course each individual operator and each driver still has their own responsibilities - as they would on any job - such as not driving into a bridge, as happened at Isleworth for example.
Obviously there is no excuse for a driver hitting a clearly signposted low bridge, that's totally down to the driver. In my experience most rail replacement jobs go quite smoothly and without a hitch, it's at busy times the problems occur. Route learning, as with conventional bus routes, doesn't really help here, some of these jobs only come up once in a blue moon and obviously there is little point training a driver for a route that they will probably never do. One thing that I think should be stopped immediately, except perhaps in the most dire of emergencies, is the use of coaches with 3+2 seating, fine for school contracts but totally unsuitable for carrying adults.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 14, 2019 12:22:53 GMT
Ugh, not surprising at all. I've had a bad experience myself with SWR RRS myself. Waited ages at Kingston for the bus, finally came after waiting half an hour or so. Got as far as New Malden, then the driver took the wrong turn at Traps Lane them started heading back to Kingston 🙄. It took an hour just to get to Wimbledon, and this was after 2200! Isn't there some kind of route training that can be done before hand or something? If I was going from Kingston to Wimbledon and the trains were suspended due to engineering work, I'd be relying on the 57 and 131 and not SWR's so-called rail replacement bus "service". The thing is, I was trying to get to Clapham Junction. It was fairly late and it was a Sunday so I couldn't be bothered faffing about too much with the buses. I ended up heading to South Wimbledon and getting the tube from there, so I would have indeed been better off with the 57. Ugh, not surprising at all. I've had a bad experience myself with SWR RRS myself. Waited ages at Kingston for the bus, finally came after waiting half an hour or so. Got as far as New Malden, then the driver took the wrong turn at Traps Lane them started heading back to Kingston 🙄. It took an hour just to get to Wimbledon, and this was after 2200! Isn't there some kind of route training that can be done before hand or something? Signs are usually attached to lamposts to show line of route. Unfortunately some drivers have been known to use a SatNav, as was discovered a few years ago when a RRS D/D was deroofed at Norbiton station! The driver I had was using a print out of the directions. No sat nav or anything else. The driver behind us was also lost as well! To be fair, even on normal TfL routes this kind of thing has happened to me before: - On a 172 under Abellio, the driver forgot to turn on to Amershan Road and ended up having to do an awkward U-turn at Deptford Bridge. I advised him he could use the 453 stand to turn around but he didn't 🤷🏾♂️ - On the first night of the N31 under Metroline, the driver asked for help after we reached South Hampstead Station. I could only help him as far as Notting Hill as I didn't know the route after then lol. Thankfully someone else (I think another driver) was able to help him. This case was a bit more understandable though.
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Post by titan1mike on Jan 14, 2019 20:18:46 GMT
I believe there has been a bus service when GA is closed from Southend Airport to Westcliff or Leigh on Sea stations to feed passengers in from the airport to a train station. Believe Arriva Southend operated these but guess C2C or GA havent asked for them again. Would be better than a bus/coach to Newbury Park. So I drove Newbury Park to Southend Victoria on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. <snip> LoadingsLoads were very light going to Southend. I suspect most people from London were successfully redirected to c2c. Presumably most people in towns outside of London have access to a car or a lift so made alternative arrangements to get home. The capacity really was needed from Southend Airport to Newbury Park. On both occasions, the bus/coach that followed me to Southend was nowhere to be seen on the return. There were dozens of people waiting, most with bulky luggage in tow. Both times I left full with several standees and poorly secured suitcases. The controllers asked me where the second bus was and I had no information to tell them. I welcomed visitors to the UK and expressed sympathy for the fact they would be spending the next two hours of their life on a red London bus. Having said that, I got all of the people on, which a 50 odd seater coach wouldn't have managed. <snip> Maybe a better idea would have been to have a dedicated non-stop coach service operating between Southend Airport and Newbury Park, or possibly even Stratford? Or a link to Southend Central for c2c. This could have been coordinated to meet flight arrivals and departures and coaches would have had the capacity for luggage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 4:48:00 GMT
The only occasions I thought the SWT replacement service ran ok was when Stagecoach, Epsom Coaches, Morton’s, RATP and Cardinal Buses ran the routes. Each separately and controlled from Clapham Junction. What seems to have happened is multiple operators on the routes appearing to use whatever buses they want. There was a high frequency coach service non stop Surbiton to Clapham on that occasion, not sure whether that still is the case.
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Post by redexpress on Jan 15, 2019 7:20:25 GMT
The only occasions I thought the SWT replacement service ran ok was when Stagecoach, Epsom Coaches, Morton’s, RATP and Cardinal Buses ran the routes. Each separately and controlled from Clapham Junction. What seems to have happened is multiple operators on the routes appearing to use whatever buses they want. There was a high frequency coach service non stop Surbiton to Clapham on that occasion, not sure whether that still is the case. There was still a non-stop service between Surbiton and CJ last time I looked, but I wouldn't be surprised if they reallocated some of the resources to the stoppers. The non-stop service was always overbussed, unlike the stoppers which were usually overloaded, especially the all-stops service via Kingston.
It didn't help that at Surbiton the non-stop coaches were hidden away at the back of the station. So you'd get passengers walking up to the first bus on the forecourt and asking "Do you go to Clapham?". Driver would say yes (not knowing anything about the non-stop service) and the poor passengers would waste two hours of their lives on an all-stations bus (and pass the time by venting their frustrations on Twitter).
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Post by schedcomp on Jan 15, 2019 18:08:36 GMT
I believe there has been a bus service when GA is closed from Southend Airport to Westcliff or Leigh on Sea stations to feed passengers in from the airport to a train station. Believe Arriva Southend operated these but guess C2C or GA havent asked for them again. Would be better than a bus/coach to Newbury Park. Maybe a better idea would have been to have a dedicated non-stop coach service operating between Southend Airport and Newbury Park, or possibly even Stratford? Or a link to Southend Central for c2c. This could have been coordinated to meet flight arrivals and departures and coaches would have had the capacity for luggage. More recently the bus route run by Arriva was Southend Airport to Thorpe Bay. I believe towards London Thorpe Bay Stn has few stairs to contend with. By going Thorpe Bay buses can also avoid some of the awful traffic in Southend/Leigh, though fewer trains serve TB than Southend Central.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 26, 2019 19:31:24 GMT
The Great Eastern Mainline will be shut at the western end again tomorrow. Abellio London will be out on Stratford to Romford and also some duties on Newbury Park to Southend Victoria.
Hopefully refurbished 9528 will be spare at QB tomorrow morning, if not then one of 9525/31/32/34/41/42 instead for the Southend job!
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 31, 2019 21:06:21 GMT
Does anyone know who has been operating the replacement service between Hackney Downs and Enfield/Cheshunt this week?
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Post by londonbuschannel on Feb 2, 2019 18:59:50 GMT
I am just curious , what form of DL-A do people prefer. The old one running from Tower Hill following the 25 all the way to Stratford then the 238 to Barking. That one time DL-A went from Canning Town straight down Barking Road all the way to Barking then normal routing to Dagenham East or the current one running from Tower Hill to Bow following the 25 ,the A12 to serve Bromley By-Bow then the A13 to Canning Town to serve the bus station then non-stop to Barking.
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