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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 5, 2016 14:08:17 GMT
The winning bidder has to provide 95 additional services from 2018 (no pathways for this)
Increasing London Waterloo to Windosr and Eton riverside services and Waterloo to Reading Services (I'm sure the countless level crossings en route constantly being down will be a stumbling block unless they close them. I know Waterloo to Reading additionals will run via Hounslow, this is being looked at. Not sure about Waterloo to Windsor) Earlier and later trains from 2018 (manageable I reckon, but will need the staff for that)
Reduced journey times on at least 70% of services from December 2020 (Driver Advisory System? New signalling? These are being reviewed)
A new delay repay and compensation scheme to make it quicker for customers (not my expertise as I have free travel)
Smart ticketing (smart cards are being trialled by staff)
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Post by snowman on Jul 5, 2016 14:58:04 GMT
The winning bidder has to provide 95 additional services from 2018 (no pathways for this) Increasing London Waterloo to Windosr and Eton riverside services and Waterloo to Reading Services (I'm sure the countless level crossings en route constantly being down will be a stumbling block unless they close them. I know Waterloo to Reading additionals will run via Hounslow, this is being looked at. Not sure about Waterloo to Windsor) Earlier and later trains from 2018 (manageable I reckon, but will need the staff for that) Reduced journey times on at least 70% of services from December 2020 (Driver Advisory System? New signalling? These are being reviewed) A new delay repay and compensation scheme to make it quicker for customers (not my expertise as I have free travel) Smart ticketing (smart cards are being trialled by staff) Are the 95 extra off peak as that is easy. Reading frequency increase might only be achievable by playing with some semi fasts. The level crossing delays to traffic are not SWT problem as they can black network rail Reduced journey times, this is a bit hollow as SET have excessively padded timetable. One minute less meets this but isn't even a restoration of the 59 mins to Southampton Parkway or 140 mins to Bournemouth of early 1990s I assume the delay refunds is similar to the ones recently introduced on Fenchurch St services so just needs to be rolled out
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 5, 2016 15:11:45 GMT
The winning bidder has to provide 95 additional services from 2018 (no pathways for this) Increasing London Waterloo to Windosr and Eton riverside services and Waterloo to Reading Services (I'm sure the countless level crossings en route constantly being down will be a stumbling block unless they close them. I know Waterloo to Reading additionals will run via Hounslow, this is being looked at. Not sure about Waterloo to Windsor) Earlier and later trains from 2018 (manageable I reckon, but will need the staff for that) Reduced journey times on at least 70% of services from December 2020 (Driver Advisory System? New signalling? These are being reviewed) A new delay repay and compensation scheme to make it quicker for customers (not my expertise as I have free travel) Smart ticketing (smart cards are being trialled by staff) Are the 95 extra off peak as that is easy. Reading frequency increase might only be achievable by playing with some semi fasts. The level crossing delays to traffic are not SWT problem as they can black network rail Reduced journey times, this is a bit hollow as SET have excessively passed timetable. One minute lars meets this but isn't even a restoration of the 59 mins to Southampton Parkway or 140 mins to Bournemouth of early quips I assume the delay refunds is similar to the ones recently introduced on Fenchurch St services so just needs to be rolled out Doesn't specify peak or off peak. I reckon it's peak. But don't quote me. I've heard that they want to run the extra Readings calling at Vauxhall, Clapham, Putney, Brentford, Hounslow, Feltham, Ashford (?) then normal stops to Wokingham then fast to Reading. That's the general talk. Some of these will then call at Longcross as there's a massive property development due there in the next ten years. I've heard about those times to Southampton and Bournemouth. Don't think you'll ever get those back. I'm due to learn The route from Woking - Poole in a few years so can't mention much as I don't sign it. Delay repay will probably be added through the app that rolled out too.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 5, 2016 15:20:50 GMT
The winning bidder has to provide 95 additional services from 2018 (no pathways for this) Increasing London Waterloo to Windosr and Eton riverside services and Waterloo to Reading Services (I'm sure the countless level crossings en route constantly being down will be a stumbling block unless they close them. I know Waterloo to Reading additionals will run via Hounslow, this is being looked at. Not sure about Waterloo to Windsor) Earlier and later trains from 2018 (manageable I reckon, but will need the staff for that) Reduced journey times on at least 70% of services from December 2020 (Driver Advisory System? New signalling? These are being reviewed) A new delay repay and compensation scheme to make it quicker for customers (not my expertise as I have free travel) Smart ticketing (smart cards are being trialled by staff) That one coupled with a requirement for max 45 sec dwell times on suburban services from 2020 look to me to really, really difficult. It implies a new fleet of trains or significant modifications. I guess it might be achieveable through removal of guards and revised door chime / door open and close sequences but looks really, really tough. I understand from comments in other places that peak time dwell times on the inners can easily be a minute or longer and it gets worse the closer in you get (for obvious reasons). The other glaring ommision is no requirement for Boxing Day services. It's absolutely evident that there is shedloads of demand for rail travel on this day so trains should run where they can (recognising some large scale engineering works are required over the Christmas and New Year break).
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Post by snowman on Jul 5, 2016 16:20:12 GMT
If I had to guess on rolling stock,
I would suspect more class 707s for inner suburban but not many as a lot of money has been spent remotoring the 455s I could see a batch of 455s reduced to 3 cars (remove ex class 508 trailer), and some converted for stopping services between Poole, Lymington, Southampton and Portsmouth thus freeing up 450s. The 455s have probably got another 12-15 years until Crossrail2 stock comes along Would expect all 450s to get refurb and gain wifi, with the high density units converted back to normal Have a hunch new hybrids will replace the 159 diesels that can work in diesel or electric mode (with Basingstoke-Salisbury electrified)
I could easily see the 707s lengthened to 6 cars, and virtually every platform extended for 12 car operation otherwise will never hit the dwell time targets. Not sure if the signal spacing can handle it, but could see mainline platforms extended Woking-Southampton/Salisbury to 260m to take an 11th car on 23m stock
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jul 5, 2016 19:34:12 GMT
Would expect all 450s to get refurb and gain wifi, with the high density units converted back to normal Haven't all of the 450 'HC' units now reverted to original spec following the lengthening of the 458s? Would say a refresh is in order for this class but they seem in decent condition even after 13 years of hard work. Maybe they'll convert the seating to 2-2 Some (if not all) of the Desiros have wifi I think.
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 6, 2016 4:19:23 GMT
Would expect all 450s to get refurb and gain wifi, with the high density units converted back to normal Haven't all of the 450 'HC' units now reverted to original spec following the lengthening of the 458s? Would say a refresh is in order for this class but they seem in decent condition even after 13 years of hard work. Maybe they'll convert the seating to 2-2 Some (if not all) of the Desiros have wifi I think. All 450 have been reverted to original spec. I think the Desiro's probably the best conditioned units in the fleet currently, and it's very rare for these to develop major faults that cause delays. I had one with a HCSB (High Speed Circuit Breaker) open and that's the first major fault I've had with one in about 3 years but I was empties to Clapham Yard with a single class 444 if I was in multiple would have been OK to continue. Siemens attended to the fault in the yard and within 30 minutes it was good to go again. Unsure 450 will ever gain 2x2 seating as they are used for mainline as well the Portsmouth line and some of the Poole services. The main question nobody can currently answer me is the 456's long term plan we know now that the current AC conversions of 455's mean they will probably be around for the next 8 years but what about 456's? The Driver Advisory System that's supposedly coming in to enable more trains to run is not being fitted on 455/456's so it's a presumption to say the extra services can't go on the current metro system with the current units because there's already a train every 2-3 minutes between Waterloo at Wimbledon. Also there's 90 455's and only 24 456's so a ten car metro system on the main side will only be select services and that hasn't been revealed yet either. All up in the air at the moment. Oh and 458's are now being fitted with WIFI.
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 31, 2016 17:22:34 GMT
They have summoned driving instructors to be sent to Germany during October to learn 707's. So the first units will be back in November. And driver training begins around this time. I declined this as I don't want to work at Basingstoke for 18 months training drivers. Neasden to Basingstoke twice a day would be too tiring.
Platform extensions on the Virginia Water - Reading sections have begun, and Martins Heron is effectively finished.
While the Shepperton branch was closed, they began putting posts up for resignalling this bit of track. I don't know why they have done this. As some signals were moved and replaced when they extended the platforms. Probably in preparation for the super signal box?
455 AC conversations are going at a steady rate.
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Post by paulo on Jul 31, 2016 18:39:42 GMT
They have summoned driving instructors to be sent to Germany during October to learn 707's. So the first units will be back in November. And driver training begins around this time. I declined this as I don't want to work at Basingstoke for 18 months training drivers. Neasden to Basingstoke twice a day would be too tiring. Platform extensions on the Virginia Water - Reading sections have begun, and Martins Heron is effectively finished. While the Shepperton branch was closed, they began putting posts up for resignalling this bit of track. I don't know why they have done this. As some signals were moved and replaced when they extended the platforms. Probably in preparation for the super signal box? 455 AC conversations are going at a steady rate. Re shepperton branch - romours circulating that number of trains per hour will be doubled in 2017 or 2018. May be the reason.
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 31, 2016 19:05:21 GMT
They have summoned driving instructors to be sent to Germany during October to learn 707's. So the first units will be back in November. And driver training begins around this time. I declined this as I don't want to work at Basingstoke for 18 months training drivers. Neasden to Basingstoke twice a day would be too tiring. Platform extensions on the Virginia Water - Reading sections have begun, and Martins Heron is effectively finished. While the Shepperton branch was closed, they began putting posts up for resignalling this bit of track. I don't know why they have done this. As some signals were moved and replaced when they extended the platforms. Probably in preparation for the super signal box? 455 AC conversations are going at a steady rate. Re shepperton branch - romours circulating that number of trains per hour will be doubled in 2017 or 2018. May be the reason. Ah yes. Would make sense. And then there's crossrail 2 which would use the branch line too. Incidentally at Egham, there are posters up saying that the Reading like capacity enhancements are only longer trains during peak hours only. I'll attempt to find out more.
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Post by snowman on Aug 21, 2016 7:52:47 GMT
Bit more info on 707s First 2 were equipped with ac pantographs and transformers for testing and certification, this will be removed and used on a 700 Thameslink unit 6 units now at Wildenrath (the test centre Siemens built on an old RAF base) in Germany There was a 3 month gap after unit 6, but production has now resumed on other 24
Passenger legroom is reported to be very poor, trains are fitted with only 275 seats (a 4 car class 455 has 245, was nearer 300 before refurb), seating is mainly 2+2 but some is 2+1 Obviously lack of seats means standing room (at standard 4 per square metre) is 257 giving nominal capacity of 532 per set, the old BR and Dept of Transport max capacity of 135% based on seats is far exceeded.
Equipped with wifi and power sockets No toilets (although some journeys are over 50 minutes) Fitted with DOO (and guards as is current SWT practice)
Build is ahead of schedule, crew training in UK starts November, passenger service starts Spring 2017, all should be in service by end 2017 Upto 27 in service M-F peaks, expected to be used on Waterloo-Windsor and Hounslow loop services.
Remains unclear how SWT intends to introduce 10 car trains on all Suburban services (about 21 could use a single 456 working with pair of 455s), but that leaves similar number still at 8car 455). Apparently all the works at Waterloo next summer have passive provision for 12 car working (although officially for 10 car) so if new track layout is good for 12 car then extending the platforms a bit might happen soon after new franchise is announced (announcement is about March).
The 458s will regain first class and return to Waterloo-Reading line The 450s will move from Reading services to mainline services
One of the SWT trains will be at Innotrans show, Berlin 20-25 Sept
The class 717 (25 X 6 car) units for Moorgate services will be similar, but will have emergency end doors
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Post by thewintersoldier on Aug 21, 2016 12:11:52 GMT
Bit more info on 707s First 2 were equipped with ac pantographs and transformers for testing and certification, this will be removed and used on a 700 Thameslink unit 6 units now at Wildenrath (the test centre Siemens built on an old RAF base) in Germany There was a 3 month gap after unit 6, but production has now resumed on other 24 Passenger legroom is reported to be very poor, trains are fitted with only 275 seats (a 4 car class 455 has 245, was nearer 300 before refurb), seating is mainly 2+2 but some is 2+1 Obviously lack of seats means standing room (at standard 4 per square metre) is 257 giving nominal capacity of 532 per set, the old BR and Dept of Transport max capacity of 135% based on seats is far exceeded. Equipped with wifi and power sockets No toilets (although some journeys are over 50 minutes) Fitted with DOO (and guards as is current SWT practice) Build is ahead of schedule, crew training in UK starts November, passenger service starts Spring 2017, all should be in service by end 2017 Upto 27 in service M-F peaks, expected to be used on Waterloo-Windsor and Hounslow loop services. Remains unclear how SWT intends to introduce 10 car trains on all Suburban services (about 21 could use a single 456 working with pair of 455s), but that leaves similar number still at 8car 455). Apparently all the works at Waterloo next summer have passive provision for 12 car working (although officially for 10 car) so if new track layout is good for 12 car then extending the platforms a bit might happen soon after new franchise is announced (announcement is about March). The 458s will regain first class and return to Waterloo-Reading line The 455s will move from Reading services to mainline services One of the SWT trains will be at Innotrans show, Berlin 20-25 Sept The class 717 (25 X 6 car) units for Moorgate services will be similar, but will have emergency end doors Was speaking to a Shunter at Clapham hard who says that permission has been asked for them to do the slow speed testing at Clapham Yard during the nights. This is not viable as Clapham is usually full to the brim. It would be easier to do it during a weekend daytime. You and me both about a full 10 car main suburban service. I suspect this may simply be only some peak services unless the original plans have changed since then there's simply not enough stock to pull that off. Oh and it's the 450's that will move to mainline services not the 455's but I suspect that's a typo.
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Post by thewintersoldier on Sept 29, 2016 18:40:09 GMT
So. General update: The first 707 unit(s) will be delivered to Clapham by two ED's overnight on the 4th/5th November. Apparently, they will be put in the shed, but I reckon they will be kept on 48 road to be shown off to the general public. There's a 4 hour window to deliver these to the yard, so should be interesting as there's a lot of movements overnight. The quest to have depots complete their route learning commitments has intensified dramatically, with this having to have been completed by December. It looks like Waterloo will regain Portsmouth direct and Alton work, which is good for me, because Pompey direct goes in my link but it looks to be a horrible road to learn. I believe the first lot of DI's to study the 707's to come back and teach the rest of us will leave towards the end of next month. Then training begins with the two units that will sit at Clapham. They have already began handing out leaflets at Waterloo regarding the closure of platforms 1-4 at Waterloo and what services will and won't run. I didn't pick one up today, but I'll give it a study. Incase anyone wanted to know which depots will gain which routes, I have attached. Phase 1 - Fratton to learn Southampton to Salisbury Basingstoke to Learn class 158/159 Basingstoke to learn Basingstoke to Salisbury Salisbury to learn class 450/444 Woking to learn Staines to Windsor Phase 2 - Bournemouth to learn Farnham to Fratton Bournemouth to learn Havant to Fratton Phase 3 - waterloo to learn Guildford to Portsmouth Phase 4 - Staines to learn East Putney Strawberry hill to learn East Putney Woking to learn East Putney Guildford to learn East Putney Phase 5 - Staines to learn the byfleet curve Strawberry hill to learn the byfleet curve Wimbledon Park to learn the byfleet curve Phase 6 - Staines to learn Ascot to Guildford via Aldershot Phase 7 - Wimbledon Park to learn strawberry hill depot Staines to learn strawberry hill depot Guildford to learn waterloo to Clapham junction (Windsor Side) Phase 8 - Waterloo to learn Woking to Alton Phase 9 - strawberry hill to learn Staines to Reading via Ascot Phase 10 - Farnham to learn chessington south Staines to learn chessington south Phase 11 - Strawberry hill to learn Woking to Guildford
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Post by snowman on Sept 29, 2016 20:12:51 GMT
Seeing the note on the East Putney line reminded me on how rare it is. (I know some empty trains use it).
I think in last 15 years got diverted from Wimbledon one morning, and had a couple of rush hour evening trains from Waterloo. All because of blockages on main line via Earlsfield, so about 1 in 2000 journeys went that way.
I have done the now closed East Putney up spur. It was a Southern Region Merrymaker to Blackpool (for the lights) from Brockenhurst (main stations to Woking). Was about 40 years ago and also included the Kensington Olympia to Willesden line when it didn't have a passenger service. From memory was mark1s with a 33, then either a class 82 or 83 to Preston and a 47 to Blackpool. Excursion trains were common then and was about 10 trains leaving Blackpool North after 10pm on a Saturday to different places. Nowadays extra trains running early hours of Sunday doesn't happen, but running wrong line around engineering works with hand signalling was ok then.
Sorry for nostalgia moment
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Post by thewintersoldier on Sept 30, 2016 3:38:13 GMT
Seeing the note on the East Putney line reminded me on how rare it is. (I know some empty trains use it). I think in last 15 years got diverted from Wimbledon one morning, and had a couple of rush hour evening trains from Waterloo. All because of blockages on main line via Earlsfield, so about 1 in 2000 journeys went that way. I have done the now closed East Putney up spur. It was a Southern Region Merrymaker to Blackpool (for the lights) from Brockenhurst (main stations to Woking). Was about 40 years ago and also included the Kensington Olympia to Willesden line when it didn't have a passenger service. From memory was mark1s with a 33, then either a class 82 or 83 to Preston and a 47 to Blackpool. Excursion trains were common then and was about 10 trains leaving Blackpool North after 10pm on a Saturday to different places. Nowadays extra trains running early hours of Sunday doesn't happen, but running wrong line around engineering works with hand signalling was ok then. Sorry for nostalgia moment East Putney up Spur? Man! That's nostalgia! It's a handy diversionary route but only Waterloo, Wimbledon and Basingstoke (?) sign it. Mainly used for empties but I believe an early morning passenger train uses it, a 444 from Southampton.
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