|
Post by SILENCED on Jul 28, 2021 16:48:55 GMT
I predict the 80 will use MHV's, 151 use EHV's after 135 lost and 93/154 electrified. The 213 would be lost to FW. Note that the 213 is not up for tender with the other Sutton routes - though the 163/164/470 are in the same tranche so could be involved in any joint bids. I think the MHVs will likely be reallocated before these tenders, perhaps involving the Croydon routes due sooner (198, 264, etc). I've also noticed that, since the 80 has been partly converted to DDs, it tends to use DOEs rather than the WHVs that transferred. I think Go Ahead may plan to transfer a few more WHVs to A later on, to fully convert the 93 to hybrids. Then bid with new electrics only on the 80, 151 and 154. Of course there's no guarantee that all of these routes will be retained, with competition including from Abellio at BC. Additionally, Arriva could bid for the 154 from TC, plus RATP for the 93 from JE, or even the 151 from TV. Should be no reason why BC or the Arriva outstation could not be used for bids for the 80 & 151. Neither Wallington or Hackbridge is that far from Beddington
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 28, 2021 16:50:27 GMT
I think BC or C are definitely the most likely options, both Abellio and Go Ahead have existing vehicles available, from the 481/P13 and 322. AL might be closer to the S2's line of route, but if won, it might make more sense to be run from C, to share with other routes using short SDs. The only other contender might be Arriva, who would need new electrics, though TC is already electrified for the 312. TC is well located for the 439, though perhaps less so for the S2. Will be interesting to see which size vehicles are specified by TFL though. The 439 will likely need single door SDs, as it replaces part of the 434. However, the S4 has recently been using slightly longer MMCs from the P13, which might provide better capacity for the revised S4 or S2. Would not be convinced the legacy supply for the 312 vehicles is up to the latest charging standards. Happy to be corrected though. Not sure what the standards are these days, but Optare buses have the ability to just charge straight from the grid as off-bus transformation of the electricity isn't required as it's done on the bus. However they can be done off-bus if required and in some cases this can be more efficient. Being 2014-15 that the chargers were first installed I'm not sure if the latest standards for off-bus transformation would have been installed, although I'd take a guess and say it isn't as the buses often call it a night early suggesting they have a long charge time which would be as a result of the on-bus transformation that's probably taking place. I don't know if this requires local grid upgrades as they still effectively plug into the wall, and it's not a particularly large fleet of buses. If another local transformer is already in place then while new chargers will be required it could probably support the installation of additional modern chargers.
|
|
|
Post by dashing0ne on Jul 28, 2021 18:42:54 GMT
I predict the 80 will use MHV's, 151 use EHV's after 135 lost and 93/154 electrified. The 213 would be lost to FW. Note that the 213 is not up for tender with the other Sutton routes - though the 163/164/470 are in the same tranche so could be involved in any joint bids. I think the MHVs will likely be reallocated before these tenders, perhaps involving the Croydon routes due sooner (198, 264, etc). I've also noticed that, since the 80 has been partly converted to DDs, it tends to use DOEs rather than the WHVs that transferred. I think Go Ahead may plan to transfer a few more WHVs to A later on, to fully convert the 93 to hybrids. Then bid with new electrics only on the 80, 151 and 154. Of course there's no guarantee that all of these routes will be retained, with competition including from Abellio at BC. Additionally, Arriva could bid for the 154 from TC, plus RATP for the 93 from JE, or even the 151 from TV. I see MHV's use for something for immediate not for Sutton routes, but still see all of them converted to electric as an ongoing move of full electric garages besides GAL knows the gist from RA and NP (mostly electric). 80 using DOE's are just as spares and strays technically DOE's aren't allocated to the 213, A loves to mix the allocations up. See the 470 snatched by A, using buses like on the 100, BYD/ADL 9.7m electrics single deck. But I do think that it definetly wouldn't be farfetched to expect an A route snatched off A and there are many options (213 to FW/TV, 151 TV, 154 TC, 93 JE) where the ones mentioned here and if that happens there will deinetly be space for full garage electrification.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2021 19:12:04 GMT
Note that the 213 is not up for tender with the other Sutton routes - though the 163/164/470 are in the same tranche so could be involved in any joint bids. I think the MHVs will likely be reallocated before these tenders, perhaps involving the Croydon routes due sooner (198, 264, etc). I've also noticed that, since the 80 has been partly converted to DDs, it tends to use DOEs rather than the WHVs that transferred. I think Go Ahead may plan to transfer a few more WHVs to A later on, to fully convert the 93 to hybrids. Then bid with new electrics only on the 80, 151 and 154. Of course there's no guarantee that all of these routes will be retained, with competition including from Abellio at BC. Additionally, Arriva could bid for the 154 from TC, plus RATP for the 93 from JE, or even the 151 from TV. I see MHV's use for something for immediate not for Sutton routes, but still see all of them converted to electric as an ongoing move of full electric garages besides GAL knows the gist from RA and NP (mostly electric). 80 using DOE's are just as spares and strays technically DOE's aren't allocated to the 213, A loves to mix the allocations up. See the 470 snatched by A, using buses like on the 100, BYD/ADL 9.7m electrics single deck. But I do think that it definetly wouldn't be farfetched to expect an A route snatched off A and there are many options (213 to FW/TV, 151 TV, 154 TC, 93 JE) where the ones mentioned here and if that happens there will deinetly be space for full garage electrification. The DOE’s on the 80 are just strays, nothing to do with spares and there’s no technically about the 213 & DOE’s - the 213 has and never has had an official allocation of DOE’s.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jul 28, 2021 20:32:23 GMT
Same was I doubt there are 2 WHVs on the 154 each day even thou 2 are officially allocated to the route.
|
|
|
Post by 725DYE on Jul 28, 2021 21:26:14 GMT
Note that the 213 is not up for tender with the other Sutton routes - though the 163/164/470 are in the same tranche so could be involved in any joint bids. I think the MHVs will likely be reallocated before these tenders, perhaps involving the Croydon routes due sooner (198, 264, etc). I've also noticed that, since the 80 has been partly converted to DDs, it tends to use DOEs rather than the WHVs that transferred. I think Go Ahead may plan to transfer a few more WHVs to A later on, to fully convert the 93 to hybrids. Then bid with new electrics only on the 80, 151 and 154. Of course there's no guarantee that all of these routes will be retained, with competition including from Abellio at BC. Additionally, Arriva could bid for the 154 from TC, plus RATP for the 93 from JE, or even the 151 from TV. I see MHV's use for something for immediate not for Sutton routes, but still see all of them converted to electric as an ongoing move of full electric garages besides GAL knows the gist from RA and NP (mostly electric). 80 using DOE's are just as spares and strays technically DOE's aren't allocated to the 213, A loves to mix the allocations up. See the 470 snatched by A, using buses like on the 100, BYD/ADL 9.7m electrics single deck. But I do think that it definetly wouldn't be farfetched to expect an A route snatched off A and there are many options (213 to FW/TV, 151 TV, 154 TC, 93 JE) where the ones mentioned here and if that happens there will deinetly be space for full garage electrification. A is full so the 470 situation won't play out. Regardless, this speculation has been done to death now. Let's just wait and see.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jul 28, 2021 21:45:52 GMT
I see MHV's use for something for immediate not for Sutton routes, but still see all of them converted to electric as an ongoing move of full electric garages besides GAL knows the gist from RA and NP (mostly electric). 80 using DOE's are just as spares and strays technically DOE's aren't allocated to the 213, A loves to mix the allocations up. See the 470 snatched by A, using buses like on the 100, BYD/ADL 9.7m electrics single deck. But I do think that it definetly wouldn't be farfetched to expect an A route snatched off A and there are many options (213 to FW/TV, 151 TV, 154 TC, 93 JE) where the ones mentioned here and if that happens there will deinetly be space for full garage electrification. The DOE’s on the 80 are just strays, nothing to do with spares and there’s no technically about the 213 & DOE’s - the 213 has and never has had an official allocation of DOE’s. I realise that A's allocations are quite mixed between routes, however the WHVs tend to be concentrated on the 93. If the remaining G3 WHVs at AL move to A, there will nearly be enough to give the 93 a full allocation. Of course as has been suggested, Go Ahead may instead bid with new electrics for all of the 80/93/151/154, in a similar approach to the electric DDs at NP. I'm not sure if the 357 was awarded with electrics, but the compliant WVNs moved to the 127's new contract at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jul 28, 2021 23:03:19 GMT
The 106/230/357 were all awarded at TBC and the 212 was awarded with new hybrids so I don't think electric formed any part of the bidding process.
|
|
|
Post by dashing0ne on Jul 29, 2021 6:44:09 GMT
I see MHV's use for something for immediate not for Sutton routes, but still see all of them converted to electric as an ongoing move of full electric garages besides GAL knows the gist from RA and NP (mostly electric). 80 using DOE's are just as spares and strays technically DOE's aren't allocated to the 213, A loves to mix the allocations up. See the 470 snatched by A, using buses like on the 100, BYD/ADL 9.7m electrics single deck. But I do think that it definetly wouldn't be farfetched to expect an A route snatched off A and there are many options (213 to FW/TV, 151 TV, 154 TC, 93 JE) where the ones mentioned here and if that happens there will deinetly be space for full garage electrification. A is full so the 470 situation won't play out. Regardless, this speculation has been done to death now. Let's just wait and see. Hypothetically speaking, if the 470 were to be gained by GAL they could operate it from AL (Merton) is very close to Colliers Wood, not sure why I suggested A in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by dashing0ne on Jul 29, 2021 6:55:14 GMT
The DOE’s on the 80 are just strays, nothing to do with spares and there’s no technically about the 213 & DOE’s - the 213 has and never has had an official allocation of DOE’s. I realise that A's allocations are quite mixed between routes, however the WHVs tend to be concentrated on the 93. If the remaining G3 WHVs at AL move to A, there will nearly be enough to give the 93 a full allocation. Of course as has been suggested, Go Ahead may instead bid with new electrics for all of the 80/93/151/154, in a similar approach to the electric DDs at NP. I'm not sure if the 357 was awarded with electrics, but the compliant WVNs moved to the 127's new contract at the same time. The 213's PVR (day, night is much lower) 16 is the same of the 80 so if all the routes (80/93/151/154) get converted to electrics there will be plenty of hybrids (WHV's) spare, GAL could convert the 213 with them to oust the old and uncommon (WVL's not uncommon though) buses at A including the 213's allocation (aka bye DOE's, VE's and WVL's) for the remaning seven months and have them as an alternative bid to the electrics and submit two bids (electric and hybrid) to boost chances of retain.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 29, 2021 11:34:17 GMT
I realise that A's allocations are quite mixed between routes, however the WHVs tend to be concentrated on the 93. If the remaining G3 WHVs at AL move to A, there will nearly be enough to give the 93 a full allocation. Of course as has been suggested, Go Ahead may instead bid with new electrics for all of the 80/93/151/154, in a similar approach to the electric DDs at NP. I'm not sure if the 357 was awarded with electrics, but the compliant WVNs moved to the 127's new contract at the same time. The 213's PVR (day, night is much lower) 16 is the same of the 80 so if all the routes (80/93/151/154) get converted to electrics there will be plenty of hybrids (WHV's) spare, GAL could convert the 213 with them to oust the old and uncommon (WVL's not uncommon though) buses at A including the 213's allocation (aka bye DOE's, VE's and WVL's) for the remaning seven months and have them as an alternative bid to the electrics and submit two bids (electric and hybrid) to boost chances of retain. As I already said, the DOE’s are not the 213’s allocation and have never been. It is allocated a couple of E’s, WVL’s & VE’s
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 13:01:38 GMT
The 213's PVR (day, night is much lower) 16 is the same of the 80 so if all the routes (80/93/151/154) get converted to electrics there will be plenty of hybrids (WHV's) spare, GAL could convert the 213 with them to oust the old and uncommon (to WVL's not uncommon though) buses at A including the 213's allocation (aka bye DOE's, VE's and WVL's) for the remaning seven months and have them as an alternative bid to the electrics and submit two bids (electric and hybrid) to boost chances of retain. As I already said, the DOE’s are not the 213’s allocation and have never been. It is allocated a couple of E’s, WVL’s & VE’s Thank you. The 213 hasn’t had the same official allocation as the majority of A routes, in this just case the 93 and 154, since 2002 when additional EVL class were ordered for its new contract.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2021 13:40:23 GMT
As I already said, the DOE’s are not the 213’s allocation and have never been. It is allocated a couple of E’s, WVL’s & VE’s Thank you. The 213 hasn’t had the same official allocation as the majority of A routes, in this just case the 93 and 154, since 2002 when additional EVL class were ordered for its new contract. Yes it was a bit of a surprise for me when it was awarded as existing in 2009 as I had been thinking we would see another batch of DOEs purchased.
|
|
|
Post by dashing0ne on Jul 29, 2021 13:51:30 GMT
The 213's PVR (day, night is much lower) 16 is the same of the 80 so if all the routes (80/93/151/154) get converted to electrics there will be plenty of hybrids (WHV's) spare, GAL could convert the 213 with them to oust the old and uncommon (WVL's not uncommon though) buses at A including the 213's allocation (aka bye DOE's, VE's and WVL's) for the remaning seven months and have them as an alternative bid to the electrics and submit two bids (electric and hybrid) to boost chances of retain. As I already said, the DOE’s are not the 213’s allocation and have never been. It is allocated a couple of E’s, WVL’s & VE’s I didn't say it was the 213 allocation I implied the bus is at A.
|
|
|
Post by bustavane on Jul 29, 2021 15:47:12 GMT
Thank you. The 213 hasn’t had the same official allocation as the majority of A routes, in this just case the 93 and 154, since 2002 when additional EVL class were ordered for its new contract. Yes it was a bit of a surprise for me when it was awarded as existing in 2009 as I had been thinking we would see another batch of DOEs purchased. Were DOE's available after the original order - I thought they and the SOEs were East Lancs swansong.
|
|