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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 24, 2022 10:22:39 GMT
TVR for the 80/93/151/154 is 77 if giving the 93 three spares and the others one spare each so will need about 8 WHVs to remain to compete the allocation. Bar the slight surprise of retaining the 8 hybrids it has been as predicted, a clean sweep across the whole board including the 163/164. I was always tied between either a clean sweep or a scratch together of every spare hybrid and the TBC award and then potentially the loss of the 14/74 did admittedly steer me more towards the later. Joined by the 413 the Sutton area will have the cleanest air and after Walthamstow the 80/151/154/164/413 will give the most electric routes in a town. I would assume the 65reg will go to the S1 now and the Opatres for the 470. 439 is likely to far away now to hold any buses back for it. I'm not sure the 163/164 electrics would be in service in time to release OMs to the 470. Unless Go Ahead can scrape together a temporary allocation from within their fleet (bearing in mind the 470 can use up to 10.2m SDs), hiring the current DDEs might even be necessary in this case. As I've suggested before, I think it's more likely the S1 will use WSs from the 355, already at C - with the 355 fully converting to DDs from the 119's WHVs. The 119's new electrics will be in service much sooner, allowing the 470 to use the OMs from the contract start.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 24, 2022 11:05:10 GMT
TVR for the 80/93/151/154 is 77 if giving the 93 three spares and the others one spare each so will need about 8 WHVs to remain to compete the allocation. Bar the slight surprise of retaining the 8 hybrids it has been as predicted, a clean sweep across the whole board including the 163/164. I was always tied between either a clean sweep or a scratch together of every spare hybrid and the TBC award and then potentially the loss of the 14/74 did admittedly steer me more towards the later. Joined by the 413 the Sutton area will have the cleanest air and after Walthamstow the 80/151/154/164/413 will give the most electric routes in a town. I would assume the 65reg will go to the S1 now and the Opatres for the 470. 439 is likely to far away now to hold any buses back for it. I'm not sure the 163/164 electrics would be in service in time to release OMs to the 470. Unless Go Ahead can scrape together a temporary allocation from within their fleet (bearing in mind the 470 can use up to 10.2m SDs), hiring the current DDEs might even be necessary in this case. As I've suggested before, I think it's more likely the S1 will use WSs from the 355, already at C - with the 355 fully converting to DDs from the 119's WHVs. The 119's new electrics will be in service much sooner, allowing the 470 to use the OMs from the contract start. The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Jun 24, 2022 11:18:23 GMT
I'm not sure the 163/164 electrics would be in service in time to release OMs to the 470. Unless Go Ahead can scrape together a temporary allocation from within their fleet (bearing in mind the 470 can use up to 10.2m SDs), hiring the current DDEs might even be necessary in this case. As I've suggested before, I think it's more likely the S1 will use WSs from the 355, already at C - with the 355 fully converting to DDs from the 119's WHVs. The 119's new electrics will be in service much sooner, allowing the 470 to use the OMs from the contract start. The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics. I don't think 163/164s SE's will get around the revised 470 routing in the Sutton Common area as its going through the S3's current routing and the SE's I think would be too long.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 24, 2022 11:19:43 GMT
The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics. I don't think SE's will get around the revised 470 routing in the Sutton Common area as its going through the S3's current routing and the SE's would be too long. I see so this is where the conspiracy is from about it getting OMs...
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Jun 24, 2022 11:21:04 GMT
I don't think SE's will get around the revised 470 routing in the Sutton Common area as its going through the S3's current routing and the SE's would be too long. I see so this is where the conspiracy is from about it getting OMs... Exactly so, the OM's may just do alright for the 470.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 24, 2022 11:39:09 GMT
I see so this is where the conspiracy is from about it getting OMs... Exactly so, the OM's may just do alright for the 470. However they are allocated to the S1, who is to say there are not other plans to provide vehicles from elsewhere other than the S1 conspiracy. We shall see what happens...
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 24, 2022 11:39:23 GMT
I don't think SE's will get around the revised 470 routing in the Sutton Common area as its going through the S3's current routing and the SE's would be too long. I see so this is where the conspiracy is from about it getting OMs... Cause enthusiasts don't think, it means the type change is as good as official!
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Post by tbmlondon on Jun 24, 2022 12:27:39 GMT
Is it known where the 8 remaining ex-322 E200s (SE235-242) are going?
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 24, 2022 13:16:28 GMT
I'm not sure the 163/164 electrics would be in service in time to release OMs to the 470. Unless Go Ahead can scrape together a temporary allocation from within their fleet (bearing in mind the 470 can use up to 10.2m SDs), hiring the current DDEs might even be necessary in this case. As I've suggested before, I think it's more likely the S1 will use WSs from the 355, already at C - with the 355 fully converting to DDs from the 119's WHVs. The 119's new electrics will be in service much sooner, allowing the 470 to use the OMs from the contract start. The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics. It's not confirmed, but they won't be allocated to the S1 for much longer, as it will need longer vehicles once rerouted. There's also nothing else in the Go Ahead fleet of the right length for the 470, and new enough. 10.2m might be fine temporarily, but may not fit once the 470 gets rerouted mid-contract - and I don't think Go Ahead has anything around 10.2m available anyway newer than 61reg.
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Post by TB123 on Jun 24, 2022 13:22:42 GMT
The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics. It's not confirmed, but they won't be allocated to the S1 for much longer, as it will need longer vehicles once rerouted. There's also nothing else in the Go Ahead fleet of the right length for the 470, and new enough. 10.2m might be fine temporarily, but may not fit once the 470 gets rerouted mid-contract - and I don't think Go Ahead has anything around 10.2m available anyway newer than 61reg. Are you aware the S1 has already been rerouted?
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 24, 2022 13:22:58 GMT
The 470 using OMs? Has this been confirmed as these are allocated to the S1... don’t see why the 470 can’t use SEs from the 163 & 164 then seeing as these routes are getting new Electrics. It's not confirmed, but they won't be allocated to the S1 for much longer, as it will need longer vehicles once rerouted. There's also nothing else in the Go Ahead fleet of the right length for the 470, and new enough. 10.2m might be fine temporarily, but may not fit once the 470 gets rerouted mid-contract - and I don't think Go Ahead has anything around 10.2m available anyway newer than 61reg. The S1 has already been rerouted and seems to be alright with its current vehicles. I personally think the 470 will take the short spare ex-322 SEs from the contract start date. Slight downgrade initially but will be needed eventually. The S1 could still take longer SE from the 164 with the OM withdrawn given they are entirely non-standard in the fleet. No point hanging onto them if not needed.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 24, 2022 14:04:13 GMT
It's not confirmed, but they won't be allocated to the S1 for much longer, as it will need longer vehicles once rerouted. There's also nothing else in the Go Ahead fleet of the right length for the 470, and new enough. 10.2m might be fine temporarily, but may not fit once the 470 gets rerouted mid-contract - and I don't think Go Ahead has anything around 10.2m available anyway newer than 61reg. The S1 has already been rerouted and seems to be alright with its current vehicles. I personally think the 470 will take the short spare ex-322 SEs from the contract start date. Slight downgrade initially but will be needed eventually. The S1 could still take longer SE from the 164 with the OM withdrawn given they are entirely non-standard in the fleet. No point hanging onto them if not needed. The 470 reroute does not entirely replace the current S3, so longer vehicles should still fit. It will serve the full length of Stayton Road - rather than Dibdin Road and Marlborough Road. Shorter SEs from the 322 could be possible though if the reduced capacity is ok, depending on how busy the 470 tends to get - or if TFL specified a particular length in the tender programme?
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 24, 2022 14:10:44 GMT
The S1 has already been rerouted and seems to be alright with its current vehicles. I personally think the 470 will take the short spare ex-322 SEs from the contract start date. Slight downgrade initially but will be needed eventually. The S1 could still take longer SE from the 164 with the OM withdrawn given they are entirely non-standard in the fleet. No point hanging onto them if not needed. The 470 reroute does not entirely replace the current S3, so longer vehicles should still fit. It will serve the full length of Stayton Road - rather than Dibdin Road and Marlborough Road. Shorter SEs from the 322 could be possible though if the reduced capacity is ok, depending on how busy the 470 tends to get - or if TFL specified a particular length in the tender programme? No it won’t serve the full length of Stayton Road, TfL determined it was unviable to convert the entire junction. So it will be following the current S3 route on Dibdin and Marlborough Roads. So longer vehicles will not be suitable. Likely max length will be 9.3m.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 24, 2022 14:35:49 GMT
The 470 reroute does not entirely replace the current S3, so longer vehicles should still fit. It will serve the full length of Stayton Road - rather than Dibdin Road and Marlborough Road. Shorter SEs from the 322 could be possible though if the reduced capacity is ok, depending on how busy the 470 tends to get - or if TFL specified a particular length in the tender programme? No it won’t serve the full length of Stayton Road, TfL determined it was unviable to convert the entire junction. So it will be following the current S3 route on Dibdin and Marlborough Roads. So longer vehicles will not be suitable. Likely max length will be 9.3m. I'd imagine the current 470 buses, which are 9.7m, would also fit - Go-Ahead will have some of their own spare when the Barnes cuts happen which probably explains the existing vehicles award
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Post by YY13VKP on Jun 24, 2022 14:48:10 GMT
It's not confirmed, but they won't be allocated to the S1 for much longer, as it will need longer vehicles once rerouted. There's also nothing else in the Go Ahead fleet of the right length for the 470, and new enough. 10.2m might be fine temporarily, but may not fit once the 470 gets rerouted mid-contract - and I don't think Go Ahead has anything around 10.2m available anyway newer than 61reg. The S1 has already been rerouted and seems to be alright with its current vehicles. I personally think the 470 will take the short spare ex-322 SEs from the contract start date. Slight downgrade initially but will be needed eventually. The S1 could still take longer SE from the 164 with the OM withdrawn given they are entirely non-standard in the fleet. No point hanging onto them if not needed. It’s entirely possible that the 164’s SE’s could replace the OM’s if the rerouting now means the S1 can now take longer buses to remove a non standard type. You also have SE268-270 being released from the 359’s electric conversion but the OM’s are perfectly adequate and are ULEZ compliant so there’s no real need to get rid of them unlike when Scanias and MCV’s were removed from the 246, 359 and 405 in 2018
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