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Post by DT 11 on Jun 3, 2022 10:13:23 GMT
Oh no I meant 19, which is why I said withdrawals and changes, because that’s planned to be altered and the Kings Road residents are very likely to not be best pleased but mind you the 19’s isn’t that major so you’re probably right. Talking of alterations I think TfL will get and absolute beasting over the 53 as well, because realistically it’s too long for the people who use it from the end of the route to get a hopper fare to central London, penalising the many poorer workers who use it. Wasn't all this said before about the 53 when it was cut back from Whitehall? Yet the change went ahead with barely a murmur of protest. The 453 connects St Thomas's with Deptford and anyone going further than that cannot realistically expect to do it on one bus. This time it's being cut back three or four stops and it was almost inevitable that would happen when stand space became available at Elephant & Castle. The alternative is to extend the 53 back to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. I wouldn't be surprised if the County Hall stand is removed with the 381 using the Concert Hall stand as the 77 is moving inside the station. The 381 could be re-routed to Waterloo Road as an option as the 26 will no longer stand there.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 3, 2022 11:48:49 GMT
I think there will be war over the 24 and 31, but the fiercest criticism will be for the 11, it is the most historic route of the lot, like selling the family silver and burning your heritage! NB I think you mean the 16 is being axed, not the 19. Oh no I meant 19, which is why I said withdrawals and changes, because that’s planned to be altered and the Kings Road residents are very likely to not be best pleased but mind you the 19’s isn’t that major so you’re probably right. Talking of alterations I think TfL will get and absolute beasting over the 53 as well, because realistically it’s too long for the people who use it from the end of the route to get a hopper fare to central London, penalising the many poorer workers who use it. The 19 had nothing to do with Kings Road residents - whilst other routes that was in that earlier consultation may have been ‘saved’ by Kings Road residents, the 19 was petitioned by a Labour MP & residents in Battersea who wanted to retain their link into Central London and beyond and rightfully so - whilst Battersea has gone quite upmarket, plenty of low paid, working class individuals remain who would of been affected by the 19’s change
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Post by danorak on Jun 3, 2022 12:17:23 GMT
Oh no I meant 19, which is why I said withdrawals and changes, because that’s planned to be altered and the Kings Road residents are very likely to not be best pleased but mind you the 19’s isn’t that major so you’re probably right. Talking of alterations I think TfL will get and absolute beasting over the 53 as well, because realistically it’s too long for the people who use it from the end of the route to get a hopper fare to central London, penalising the many poorer workers who use it. Wasn't all this said before about the 53 when it was cut back from Whitehall? Yet the change went ahead with barely a murmur of protest. The 453 connects St Thomas's with Deptford and anyone going further than that cannot realistically expect to do it on one bus. This time it's being cut back three or four stops and it was almost inevitable that would happen when stand space became available at Elephant & Castle. The alternative is to extend the 53 back to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. I wouldn't be surprised if the County Hall stand is removed with the 381 using the Concert Hall stand as the 77 is moving inside the station. OK, I'll bite. You obviously missed all the protest around here and on the internet. Given your love of extending routes and TfL's new found desire for services that stretch across London, why is it unreasonable to reach St Thomas' on one bus from beyond Deptford when people are referred there from that area? At least be consistent. Lower Marsh is a poor compromise terminus that just about works as places are walkable from there.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 3, 2022 12:53:23 GMT
Wasn't all this said before about the 53 when it was cut back from Whitehall? Yet the change went ahead with barely a murmur of protest. The 453 connects St Thomas's with Deptford and anyone going further than that cannot realistically expect to do it on one bus. This time it's being cut back three or four stops and it was almost inevitable that would happen when stand space became available at Elephant & Castle. The alternative is to extend the 53 back to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. I wouldn't be surprised if the County Hall stand is removed with the 381 using the Concert Hall stand as the 77 is moving inside the station. OK, I'll bite. You obviously missed all the protest around here and on the internet. Given your love of extending routes and TfL's new found desire for services that stretch across London, why is it unreasonable to reach St Thomas' on one bus from beyond Deptford when people are referred there from that area? At least be consistent. Lower Marsh is a poor compromise terminus that just about works as places are walkable from there. Yes I obviously did miss the protests but obviously the change went ahead anyway. I would imagine cutting the 53 back to Elephant & Castle will save 2 or 3 buses and in the current situation........ People are refered to Tommy's from a lot of areas but that doesn't guarantee them a direct bus service and most such journeys can probably be done with hopper fare and one change of bus. The only alternative I can see is the 53 to Oxford Circus and axe the 453.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 3, 2022 13:42:08 GMT
OK, I'll bite. You obviously missed all the protest around here and on the internet. Given your love of extending routes and TfL's new found desire for services that stretch across London, why is it unreasonable to reach St Thomas' on one bus from beyond Deptford when people are referred there from that area? At least be consistent. Lower Marsh is a poor compromise terminus that just about works as places are walkable from there. Yes I obviously did miss the protests but obviously the change went ahead anyway. I would imagine cutting the 53 back to Elephant & Castle will save 2 or 3 buses and in the current situation........ People are refered to Tommy's from a lot of areas but that doesn't guarantee them a direct bus service and most such journeys can probably be done with hopper fare and one change of bus. The only alternative I can see is the 53 to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. Save 2 or 3 buses but then later you will be proposing long extensions which require large PVR increases.
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Post by cl54 on Jun 3, 2022 14:26:40 GMT
Oh no I meant 19, which is why I said withdrawals and changes, because that’s planned to be altered and the Kings Road residents are very likely to not be best pleased but mind you the 19’s isn’t that major so you’re probably right. Talking of alterations I think TfL will get and absolute beasting over the 53 as well, because realistically it’s too long for the people who use it from the end of the route to get a hopper fare to central London, penalising the many poorer workers who use it. Wasn't all this said before about the 53 when it was cut back from Whitehall? Yet the change went ahead with barely a murmur of protest. The 453 connects St Thomas's with Deptford and anyone going further than that cannot realistically expect to do it on one bus. This time it's being cut back three or four stops and it was almost inevitable that would happen when stand space became available at Elephant & Castle. The alternative is to extend the 53 back to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. I wouldn't be surprised if the County Hall stand is removed with the 381 using the Concert Hall stand as the 77 is moving inside the station. Anyone travelling from Plumstead/Woolwich has to change to the 453 at Deptford Bridge to be sure of getting the Hopper fare.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 3, 2022 14:45:08 GMT
Wasn't all this said before about the 53 when it was cut back from Whitehall? Yet the change went ahead with barely a murmur of protest. The 453 connects St Thomas's with Deptford and anyone going further than that cannot realistically expect to do it on one bus. This time it's being cut back three or four stops and it was almost inevitable that would happen when stand space became available at Elephant & Castle. The alternative is to extend the 53 back to Oxford Circus and axe the 453. I wouldn't be surprised if the County Hall stand is removed with the 381 using the Concert Hall stand as the 77 is moving inside the station. Anyone travelling from Plumstead/Woolwich has to change to the 453 at Deptford Bridge to be sure of getting the Hopper fare. And anyone travelling from Orpington wouldn't be able to get there in two buses anyway. I suspect most people would use Southeastern to Waterloo East. The bus network cannot accommodate everybody's requirements.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 3, 2022 15:35:17 GMT
Anyone travelling from Plumstead/Woolwich has to change to the 453 at Deptford Bridge to be sure of getting the Hopper fare. And anyone travelling from Orpington wouldn't be able to get there in two buses anyway. I suspect most people would use Southeastern to Waterloo East. The bus network cannot accommodate everybody's requirements. The problem with your statement though is there is already a link that does provide access to Tommie's - no one is asking for a brand new link from other areas but a retention of something that has been there for decades. To try and make that comparison is somewhat missing the point.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 3, 2022 18:31:52 GMT
I don't think I'll be the only one who's hurting if the 11 and 12 are withdrawn leaving a huge gap in the numbering sequence from 9-13 - to think that had the 13/82/113/139 consultation gone a slightly different way we would potentially be looking at no routes numbered between 9 and 15.
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Post by cl54 on Jun 3, 2022 20:00:07 GMT
Anyone travelling from Plumstead/Woolwich has to change to the 453 at Deptford Bridge to be sure of getting the Hopper fare. And anyone travelling from Orpington wouldn't be able to get there in two buses anyway. I suspect most people would use Southeastern to Waterloo East. The bus network cannot accommodate everybody's requirements. There is no limit to the number of buses in the hour.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 4, 2022 21:13:37 GMT
Interesting question, of all the proposed route withdrawals and changes, which one(s) do you think is going to attract the very fiercest amount of opposition against being withdrawn/changed? While probably all of the 11, 12, 14, 19, 24, 31, 53, 74 and even the 78 are going to face a monumental backlash, I think the 24 and the Hampstead lot above all are going to absolutely go to war with TfL over it. Having looked around the interwebs over the past few days, I think most of the changes have received a backlash to a greater or lesser extent, but there seems to have been particular vitriol for the loss of the 4, 12 and 31, as well as the southern end of the 78.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 4, 2022 22:09:01 GMT
Interesting question, of all the proposed route withdrawals and changes, which one(s) do you think is going to attract the very fiercest amount of opposition against being withdrawn/changed? While probably all of the 11, 12, 14, 19, 24, 31, 53, 74 and even the 78 are going to face a monumental backlash, I think the 24 and the Hampstead lot above all are going to absolutely go to war with TfL over it. Having looked around the interwebs over the past few days, I think most of the changes have received a backlash to a greater or lesser extent, but there seems to have been particular vitriol for the loss of the 4, 12 and 31, as well as the southern end of the 78. Anything on the 45 out of interest? I suspect that one is rather quiet sadly
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 4, 2022 22:15:27 GMT
Having looked around the interwebs over the past few days, I think most of the changes have received a backlash to a greater or lesser extent, but there seems to have been particular vitriol for the loss of the 4, 12 and 31, as well as the southern end of the 78. Anything on the 45 out of interest? I suspect that one is rather quiet sadly Of the total withdrawals, the 45 seems to have least love.
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Post by Busboy105 on Jun 4, 2022 22:18:11 GMT
Anything on the 45 out of interest? I suspect that one is rather quiet sadly Of the total withdrawals, the 45 seems to have least love. It's basically useless now since the cut to Elephant & Castle. TFL could've at least sent it to Blackfriars or Farringdon
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Post by vjaska on Jun 4, 2022 22:20:18 GMT
Of the total withdrawals, the 45 seems to have least love. It's basically useless now since the cut to Elephant & Castle. TFL could've at least sent it to Blackfriars or Farringdon And you use said route and live along it? I do and it's certainly not useless
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