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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 19, 2019 15:08:37 GMT
So rather than amend the schedules to avoid all this nonsense TfL now place a greater onus on the operators? Hmmm - interesting view about where the responsibility for slack schedules sits. I'll readily acknowledge that this is not an easy issue given operators provide the schedules and manage the service day to day and thus own the performance risk. However TfL own the specification and accept the schedule and PVR so they're not exactly "off the hook" either (IMO). Schedules should have some resilience in them and stand space permitting, buses can move more quickly than scheduled and the operator will know where this can be done. Stand space however is at a premium so this can't always happen. I do completely understand the need for resilience built into a schedule, but for something like the 5 and the ELs there's quite a bit of stand space available at either end of the route (TfL contract specifications withstanding.) Personally, I cannot see why a schedule has so much slack in it that buses have to dawdle along, regularly being held to "help even out the service." I get free travel, so I have no real place to complain about something I don't have to pay for, but it's making buses less and less attractive to travel on
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 19, 2019 15:16:47 GMT
New initiative by TfL where buses are not allowed to hold back for more then 3 minutes at one stop with passengers onboard. Seems like the bus in front of yours was instructed to hold for you and the other passengers to board allowing your original bus to hold for over 3 minutes. excellent initiative- my 5 today got held for 3 minutes...at 3 different stops on what should be a 20 minute journey. When will TfL sort this sort of thing out- you could easily remove at least 2 buses from the 5 schedule to stop all this waiting at stops and/or being transferred onto the bus in front What surprises me is I'm pretty sure GAL are running the 5 to a lower PVR compared to what Stagecoach did, I wonder if this has been achieved by reducing the number of buses on stand at a time. I know at Canning Town it would be normal for 4-5 5s taking a rest there at a time but these days you're lucky to see 3, I don't see it as often on the Romford end these days but it wouldn't be much different. This seems to be the case in an environment where bids are getting ever lower and operators can't afford to lose bonus payments and incur fines, so would probably make the service slow beyond measure if it means being able to stick to the timetable.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 19, 2019 15:21:02 GMT
excellent initiative- my 5 today got held for 3 minutes...at 3 different stops on what should be a 20 minute journey. When will TfL sort this sort of thing out- you could easily remove at least 2 buses from the 5 schedule to stop all this waiting at stops and/or being transferred onto the bus in front What surprises me is I'm pretty sure GAL are running the 5 to a lower PVR compared to what Stagecoach did, I wonder if this has been achieved by reducing the number of buses on stand at a time. I know at Canning Town it would be normal for 4-5 5s taking a rest there at a time but these days you're lucky to see 3, I don't see it as often on the Romford end these days but it wouldn't be much different. This seems to be the case in an environment where bids are getting ever lower and operators can't afford to lose bonus payments and incur fines, so would probably make the service slow beyond measure if it means being able to stick to the timetable. I totally agree, it seems some operators are now bidding at a level where they depend on good performance bonuses to make any sort of profit. Shame because the EWT etc contracts were meant to make bus services better for the customer....
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Post by Londonbuses54 on Apr 19, 2019 16:02:15 GMT
How do you tell if a bus is in limp mode?
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Post by Pilot on Apr 19, 2019 16:03:53 GMT
Reducing PVR will increase running time, basically changing nothing when it comes to waiting 3 minutes at 4 different stops. Lol I mean in general if traffic in London or most areas wasn't as bad, it would be easier to predict perfect bus running time and therefore there would be no such thing but oh well.
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Post by busaholic on Apr 19, 2019 16:30:44 GMT
Reducing PVR will increase running time, basically changing nothing when it comes to waiting 3 minutes at 4 different stops. Lol I mean in general if traffic in London or most areas wasn't as bad, it would be easier to predict perfect bus running time and therefore there would be no such thing but oh well. Reducing PVR with the same scheduled running time will cause a widening of headways, assuming terminal times remain the same: reducing running time with commensurate reduction in PVR would mean headways remaining exactly, or almost exactly, the same. That is the theory: in practice, if reduced running times can't be achieved, then there will be widened headways and, most probably on most routes, unscheduled curtailments. There's no easy answer now any more than there ever has been in the history of operating buses. That doesn't mean more shouldn't be done to think of the poor beleaguered passenger caught up in all this, and excessive regulation of bus services should be a no-no in non-emergency situations. I'm afraid the current arrangements regarding contracts, targets and performance bonuses won't be helping.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 19, 2019 16:33:12 GMT
Reducing PVR will increase running time, basically changing nothing when it comes to waiting 3 minutes at 4 different stops. Lol I mean in general if traffic in London or most areas wasn't as bad, it would be easier to predict perfect bus running time and therefore there would be no such thing but oh well. reducing the PVR and keeping the same frequency could reduce the running time, thus reducing all this waiting at bus stops to help "even out the service." Alternatively, reducing the running time but increasing the amount of stand time would keep the PVR as it is
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 17:16:50 GMT
Reducing PVR will increase running time, basically changing nothing when it comes to waiting 3 minutes at 4 different stops. Lol I mean in general if traffic in London or most areas wasn't as bad, it would be easier to predict perfect bus running time and therefore there would be no such thing but oh well. reducing the PVR and keeping the same frequency could reduce the running time, thus reducing all this waiting at bus stops to help "even out the service." Alternatively, reducing the running time but increasing the amount of stand time would keep the PVR as it is But would mean more likely drivers would finish late increasing the amount the company spends on overtime
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Post by Pilot on Apr 19, 2019 17:28:48 GMT
reducing the PVR and keeping the same frequency could reduce the running time, thus reducing all this waiting at bus stops to help "even out the service." Alternatively, reducing the running time but increasing the amount of stand time would keep the PVR as it is But would mean more likely drivers would finish late increasing the amount the company spends on overtime Which is a bad habit to have, I heard stories of drivers finishing 5 min late just for docket, 5 mins is a lot of time in this business and obviously kills even frequency after changeover.
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Post by John tuthill on Apr 19, 2019 17:59:31 GMT
How do you tell if a bus is in limp mode? Larry Grayson driving?
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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 19, 2019 18:00:19 GMT
reducing the PVR and keeping the same frequency could reduce the running time, thus reducing all this waiting at bus stops to help "even out the service." Alternatively, reducing the running time but increasing the amount of stand time would keep the PVR as it is But would mean more likely drivers would finish late increasing the amount the company spends on overtime I do see your point, however, with the route I have mentioned a lot, drivers would be instructed to "wait to help even out the service" at the stop prior to the changeover point, only to then arrive and have to wait longer because the new driver isn't there yet and theres another bus changing over at the same time.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 19, 2019 18:01:15 GMT
How do you tell if a bus is in limp mode? Larry Grayson driving? I was going to say it goes "oooo my back" every time it pulls away from a stop
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 19, 2019 21:24:12 GMT
How do you tell if a bus is in limp mode? It accelerates more slowly than is average for that type of bus, even when the pedal is flat down.
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Post by Londonbuses54 on Apr 19, 2019 23:43:48 GMT
How do you tell if a bus is in limp mode? It accelerates more slowly than is average for that type of bus, even when the pedal is flat down. How would you be able to tell it’s flat out, without thinking it’s just a slow driver?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 20, 2019 0:48:44 GMT
It accelerates more slowly than is average for that type of bus, even when the pedal is flat down. How would you be able to tell it’s flat out, without thinking it’s just a slow driver? Depending on the bus, you can sometimes tell by the way the bus goes through the gears.
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