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Post by busaholic on May 18, 2019 20:56:24 GMT
Given the continued success of the X68, I'd say that there are probably quite a few who travel those distances: after all, £1.50 is a bargain for the distance. Given Thameslink woes, it might well take no longer than the train either, if you factor in getting to East Croydon, say, from Croydon town centre and waiting for your (delayed) train. The X68 is a different kettle of fish. Is any sane minded people (other than a bus enthusiast out on a jolly) going to spend the best part of 90minutes on a bus from Croydon to Elephant & Castle when a train gets them into Central London in under 20 minutes? It's a different number, granted, but it travels a longer distance and has to use at least some of the same roads, exactly the same ones on many occasions, and in peak hours too, and proves there is a demand for longer distance travel by bus. In any case, if you travel on it in the a.m. peak and choose to come back other than in the p.m. peak you'll have to find an alternative e.g. 68 and 468. You might well ask why someone would choose this method of travel, but, as you yourself have pointed out on many occasions, when somebody has suggested raising the bus fare, you've said that many could not afford it: moreover, you've suggested extensions of existing routes on the basis that it wouldn't make them impossible to operate, so I'm merely regurgitating your arguments.
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Post by sid on May 18, 2019 21:05:22 GMT
The X68 is a different kettle of fish. Is any sane minded people (other than a bus enthusiast out on a jolly) going to spend the best part of 90minutes on a bus from Croydon to Elephant & Castle when a train gets them into Central London in under 20 minutes? If no one was using the X68 to get to and from Central London, the route would have been withdrawn by now. Also makes me wonder what makes the people of Croydon different from the rest of London where they can get the only Central London express service and everyone else has the only option of more expensive trains and underground or using all-stopper bus routes that either don’t reach Central London or don’t reach the outer London boroughs so require a change of bus The X68 and the 468 are completely different. The X68 was introduced to appease complaints about the 68 being converted to OPO back in the 80's and has proven so popular that it's remained in situ ever since.
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Post by sid on May 18, 2019 21:16:23 GMT
The X68 is a different kettle of fish. Is any sane minded people (other than a bus enthusiast out on a jolly) going to spend the best part of 90minutes on a bus from Croydon to Elephant & Castle when a train gets them into Central London in under 20 minutes? Yes, people who can't afford the train would certainly do that journey - to call someone insane for choosing that method of travel is very harsh. I'm actually calling myself insane as I do undertake such journeys when I'm in enthusiast mode but if I just want to get somewhere in a hurry I'll find a quicker route as I'm sure most other people would.
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Post by kmkcheng on May 18, 2019 21:34:33 GMT
Yes, people who can't afford the train would certainly do that journey - to call someone insane for choosing that method of travel is very harsh. I'm actually calling myself insane as I do undertake such journeys when I'm in enthusiast mode but if I just want to get somewhere in a hurry I'll find a quicker route as I'm sure most other people would. Some people may not have a choice if they are tight on money. Someone taking the X68 would only cost £3 a day, so over a year minus 4 weeks annual leave and bank and public holidays would cost £696 compared to £2400 for an annual z1-5 travelcard so that’s a potential saving of over £1700 a year. So if it means having to leave a hour earlier and getting home a hour later, someone would put up with it if means saving money.
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Post by sid on May 18, 2019 21:40:29 GMT
I'm actually calling myself insane as I do undertake such journeys when I'm in enthusiast mode but if I just want to get somewhere in a hurry I'll find a quicker route as I'm sure most other people would. Some people may not have a choice if they are tight on money. Someone taking the X68 would only cost £3 a day, so over a year minus 4 weeks annual leave and bank and public holidays would cost £696 compared to £2400 for an annual z1-5 travelcard so that’s a potential saving of over £1700 a year. So if it means having to leave a hour earlier and getting home a hour later, someone would put up with it if means saving money. Maybe but for many people time is money, not much point in saving money on fares if it's going straight into the child minders pocket.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 21:43:08 GMT
Yes, people who can't afford the train would certainly do that journey - to call someone insane for choosing that method of travel is very harsh. I'm actually calling myself insane as I do undertake such journeys when I'm in enthusiast mode but if I just want to get somewhere in a hurry I'll find a quicker route as I'm sure most other people would. But as vjaska pointed out a awful lot of low paid workers have no choice. Also have to consider users with disabilities / phobias who might not be able to use trains. Also tight people like me who refuses to pay train fares when I can get a bus much cheaper!
I don't think we should be quick to put everyone is the same bracket.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 21:46:45 GMT
Some people may not have a choice if they are tight on money. Someone taking the X68 would only cost £3 a day, so over a year minus 4 weeks annual leave and bank and public holidays would cost £696 compared to £2400 for an annual z1-5 travelcard so that’s a potential saving of over £1700 a year. So if it means having to leave a hour earlier and getting home a hour later, someone would put up with it if means saving money. Maybe but for many people time is money, not much point in saving money on fares if it's going straight into the child minders pocket. You do realise some people are on such low pay they can't afford child minders? they have to ask family to help out.
Maybe its me but growing up in a poor part of London in the 80s and 90s has made me appreciate the smaller things in life.
I do sometimes wonder if you are trolling in a very subtle way sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 21:50:55 GMT
What starts to annoy me lately is people think they got trick up their sleeves at how they stop the bus...they think because they wiggle the hand in a funny way the bus driver will stop right next to them. This is mostly the case in very busy bus stops where space could potentially be an issue so they try to wave or do something special to make sure you stop next to them and so they can board first and then in half cases they give you look of madness if you don't...which of course I don't because I don't stop for just one person. Oh dear that would be me then ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png) - in terms of sometimes doing the little wave. I only do that if I know I was first at the stop and all the subsequent arrivals then decide they'll shove their way on the bus instead. Being of the older generation, that is used to queuing, I find the "barge in" tendency to be immensely annoying. Obviously some drivers take no notice at all whereas others who recognise me will line the bus up. I don't pull a "look of madness" if drivers don't stop beside me. I thought it was just me that got extremely wound up when passengers don't queue and I end up at the back of the line despite being first. I am very old school and get some funny looks if I let a less able person or lady go first.
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Post by sid on May 18, 2019 21:53:28 GMT
Maybe but for many people time is money, not much point in saving money on fares if it's going straight into the child minders pocket. You do realise some people are on such low pay they can't afford child miners? they have to ask family to help out.
Maybe its me but growing up in a poor part of London in the 80s and 90s has made me appreciate the smaller things in life.
I do sometimes wonder if you are trolling in a very subtle way sometimes.
No I'm just living in the real world. Anyway getting back to the original point, I wonder how much it cost putting up vague bus stop posters about Central London changes that are unlikely to be of any interest to bus users in Croydon?
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Post by Pilot on May 18, 2019 22:16:25 GMT
You do realise some people are on such low pay they can't afford child miners? they have to ask family to help out.
Maybe its me but growing up in a poor part of London in the 80s and 90s has made me appreciate the smaller things in life.
I do sometimes wonder if you are trolling in a very subtle way sometimes.
No I'm just living in the real world. Anyway getting back to the original point, I wonder how much it cost putting up vague bus stop posters about Central London changes that are unlikely to be of any interest to bus users in Croydon? More than it costs to repair 2 different TFL toilet facilities for my routes for sure which we can't use for at least 2 weeks now.
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Post by redbus on May 18, 2019 22:23:44 GMT
I was brought up in the world of Routemasters and request stops! I usually put my hand out for a bus, partly out of habit from all the request stops I used, and partly to indicate to the driver that I want his /her bus, and not some other bus. If I don't want a bus, I tend to stand back to try and make it clear to the driver that he / she doesn't need to stop on my behalf.
Nowadays buses are much better a pulling up at stops fully aligned. However I am still in the habit if a few buses come together to move towards the second or third bus if that is the one I want. Sometimes that works, sometimes the driver just points me back to go back to the stop. What do drivers appreciate, standing by the stop when you want the third bus in a line, or moving down towards it?
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Post by ronnie on May 18, 2019 22:27:59 GMT
The X68 is a different kettle of fish. Is any sane minded people (other than a bus enthusiast out on a jolly) going to spend the best part of 90minutes on a bus from Croydon to Elephant & Castle when a train gets them into Central London in under 20 minutes? You will be surprised I won't mention my favourite 25 (Oops I just did) before it was withdrawn from Oxford Circus. I did the 5 today from Romford to Canning Town and was surprised another 6 passengers did the full route too and that's at least 90 mins. Train can do it in 20mins, even less if you get a direct Stratford train. The 25 has lots of people doing the full route / >80% of the route even though it took >90 minutes
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Post by busaholic on May 18, 2019 22:46:45 GMT
I was brought up in the world of Routemasters and request stops! I usually put my hand out for a bus, partly out of habit from all the request stops I used, and partly to indicate to the driver that I want his /her bus, and not some other bus. If I don't want a bus, I tend to stand back to try and make it clear to the driver that he / she doesn't need to stop on my behalf. Nowadays buses are much better a pulling up at stops fully aligned. However I am still in the habit if a few buses come together to move towards the second or third bus if that is the one I want. Sometimes that works, sometimes the driver just points me back to go back to the stop. What do drivers appreciate, standing by the stop when you want the third bus in a line, or moving down towards it? I doubt you'd get a consensus on your question, even from the drivers on this forum. One man's meat, and all that...
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Post by redbus on May 18, 2019 22:56:23 GMT
I took my son to the LT museum today and that meant more trips on the 139. On the way back boarded a surprisingly full bus on the Strand, and we left people behind at Charing Cross station. Clearly following the axing of all the other routes, the 139 could no longer cope...please note TfL.
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Post by 6HP502C on May 18, 2019 22:57:45 GMT
Yeah I know lol, there is another new trend now though...basically they start running towards the bus out of nowhere and you as a driver sometimes fall for it and re-open the door, potentially even lose on a traffic light and they tap and OH WHATS WRONG WITH MY CARD I JUST TOPPED UP, so you're supposed to feel their sympathy because they ran for bus 'actually giving effort' and now they can't go on it? 9 out of 10 cases you'll just allow them on because they already wasted time but I stopped doing it now because like i said it's becoming a tactical trend to get on for free. That one has been ongoing for some time too. Again on the N3, I very quickly learned there is a strong correlation between people who abuse the bus boarding process by imploring to be let on at places other than bus stops and their likelihood to abuse the system by then attempting to fare evade! They are best told to pay or gweh, in a much more diplomatic way of course.
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