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Post by RM5chris on Apr 16, 2010 16:41:58 GMT
I wonder if the same customers are unhappy with the similar announcement used on the Underground? (which I hear far more often than that used on the buses).
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Post by Steve80 on Apr 16, 2010 20:39:46 GMT
Nothing you can do about that, especially on the route 3 (and possibly all the other routes along regent street) as when you get to piccadilly circus, you only have one bus stop to play with, and approx. 6 minutes to get to the next timing point which is oxford circus. The unpredictable traffic there means you can't take any chances. Another good thing about the ibus message is when you serve a busy bus stop (such as brixton station) and are running early, you can easily let passengers already onboard know of your intentions while dealing with other passengers trying to board and ask questions at the same time. It would be very difficult or unprofessional to let passengers know via the PA system that the bus is running early while passengers are boarding. As for diverting, if its a long diversion then I let passengers know. A small diversion or one that is regular then I don't bother. Not great customer service I know but sometimes when using the PA I get my words in a twist A diversion annoucment of some sort is better than nothing. Definately something to work on But why do you even bother to run to the schedule - If you are on time at Piccadilly Circus, then there is nothing you can do if you've got too much time on the way to Oxo. Nothing annoys passengers more than sitting just before where they want to go waiting for you to kill time. The operator I work for make it clear that as long as you are running to the correct headway (note - not *on time*), then just carry on, and sort yourself out when you get to the terminal. Because of the controller at oxford circus, who is ready and waiting to book any drivers who get there early. I do understand that it would be silly to regulate the service if your only one stop away but its us drivers who get told off for getting to the point early if the controller is there. There was one saturday when I left oxford circus on time and got to trafalgae square about 5 early. Despite this, the ibus headway was sayin I was too far away from my leader. My leader was running about 10 -15 early as traffic was light and I knew he was finishing at crystal palace. What was I suppose to do? Run on time or try and keep the gap I decided to keep the gap which meant I was running almost 10 minutes early When I got to crystal palace, the night controller there made an annoucment via the radio 'No more buses running early. The next one will be booked'. I had my standtime at palace and left for oxford circus. Got to the 3rd bus stop and spotted on the other side, two route 3s waiting at the 2nd stop before crystal palace with their hazard lights on (one of the buses was my follower). With our company, they tell us to drive according to the headway of the bus in front, but when the controller is at the other end they don't want us to arrive there early unless instructed to do so. The only option then is to wait at the 2nd stop before last with the regulate annoucment and hope that passengers will understand.
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Post by Steve80 on Apr 16, 2010 21:09:31 GMT
This is the real reason for its removal which seems fair enough to me personally. I do think/hope that we do still maintain some of the pre-recorded annoucements as I think when used properly they are useful (the next bus stop is closed) springs to me). Usind the PA is all very good providing the MDT is set as a reasonable level in the cab (ETBBV will know what I mean) so you don't have to stand up to be heard on the microphone. When I asked about this a while ago I got some rubblish about different types of vehicle layout. Well I am sorry then sort it out properly - I wouldn't expect to order a fitted kitchen and find half of it has to be installed in the living room as it was all too difficult to fit surely. As Paul has touched on drivers have been issued with advice for the current Orpington diversions. Whether they are being used is another matter. With effect from Friday 16 April 2010, the pre-recorded passenger announcement, “This bus is being held here to help regulate the service,” will be removed as an option on the MDT. LBSL have decided to remove the announcement following increasing customer dissatisfaction that it was being used inappropriately and too frequently. An LBSL survey of use at the end of January 2010 confirmed that there had been over 22,000 activations of this announcement in two days. Drivers should consider using the on-bus P.A. system if a genuine cause for delay arises. Our tridents are the same in that you have to stand halfway up to speak on the mic or you have to shout. We used to have a microphone which we could pull towards us but this has been taken away as soon as the ibus system arrived. Still can't believe the regualte message has gone. If passengers were complaining about it being used inappropriately then maybe they could have worded it differently No point moaning about it now though
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Post by M1104 on Apr 16, 2010 21:48:13 GMT
Usind the PA is all very good providing the MDT is set as a reasonable level in the cab (ETBBV will know what I mean) so you don't have to stand up to be heard on the microphone. When I asked about this a while ago I got some rubblish about different types of vehicle layout. Well I am sorry then sort it out properly - I wouldn't expect to order a fitted kitchen and find half of it has to be installed in the living room as it was all too difficult to fit surely. Could it be possible that the mic was purposely placed as such to prevent drivers using it and driving the bus at the same time?
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Post by beaver14uk on Apr 16, 2010 23:05:11 GMT
Like they do on National Express Coaches. Usind the PA is all very good providing the MDT is set as a reasonable level in the cab (ETBBV will know what I mean) so you don't have to stand up to be heard on the microphone. When I asked about this a while ago I got some rubblish about different types of vehicle layout. Well I am sorry then sort it out properly - I wouldn't expect to order a fitted kitchen and find half of it has to be installed in the living room as it was all too difficult to fit surely. Could it be possible that the mic was purposely placed as such to prevent drivers using it and driving the bus at the same time?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2010 9:51:28 GMT
Customers not happy with it being over used. As I mentioned before with the DWL installation you have to stand up to be heard (no design award for that one) previously we had the flexible microphone which made better sense. As for removing the announcement because it is used is absurd, if it wasnt being used I could understand it. It was for their benefit, do they think the bus will now get to its destination earlier of course not it just means they will be left wondering why the bus isnt moving. (Dont even mention standing up to make announcements ) I for one found it useful when I was on a 61, driver played the message and as I was getting off at the next stop anyway I decided to walk.
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Post by titan1mike on Apr 17, 2010 19:35:40 GMT
If we had a microphone which pulled down to our mouths while sitting down i would use it a lot more but on our tridents( i work for East London) you have to stand up in the cab to use it. I assume train drivers dont have to do this in their cabs hence the large amount of announcements they make. Could anything be done to adjust the position of the microphone or are we just stuck with having to stand up in the cab?
Mike.
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Post by lc1 on Apr 17, 2010 20:01:45 GMT
You think standing up is bad, some of our PVL's the mic is behind us so you have to stand and lean backwards to use it!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 22:20:45 GMT
1) Who is determining 'over-use' ? As has been mentioned already, surely the root of the complaint is the route timings NOT the message activation. 2) On several bus types the speaker is housed in the cab roof/ceiling. So stand up, sit down, lean back, lean forward. Yea that will work!
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Post by sw11simon on May 14, 2010 8:22:56 GMT
1) Who is determining 'over-use' ? As has been mentioned already, surely the root of the complaint is the route timings NOT the message activation. 2) On several bus types the speaker is housed in the cab roof/ceiling. So stand up, sit down, lean back, lean forward. Yea that will work! It is TFL (at a high level) that is determining over-use and I am inclined to agree. The most common time I hear it is when a route 156 gets to nearly the end of the route at Wimbledon, Alexandra Road. It would make no sense to regulate the service at this point - the route is nearly finished. To passengers it makes it a nonsense announcement. The real reason the bus is sitting there is as it will be early on the stand, and possibly there will not be space. There will be route timing problems on some routes but others will have unpredictable running time combined with a lack of stand capacity. Route 93, one of ours, is a classic example of this. Unpredictable traffic delays in Morden, Wimbledon and Putney on a 6.5 min headway with only a two bus stand at each end. On a quiet morning buses will struggle not to run early but if they do they will overcrowd the terminus and have nowhere to park. Places like Putney Bridge or Victoria are nightmares if all buses arrive early. The best solution to avoid buses hanging about would be to have slightly tight schedules with good recovery time. A lot of routes do not have stand capacity for this so the best compromise is to build what ideally would be recovery time into running time.
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Post by M1104 on May 14, 2010 16:43:49 GMT
1) Who is determining 'over-use' ? As has been mentioned already, surely the root of the complaint is the route timings NOT the message activation. 2) On several bus types the speaker is housed in the cab roof/ceiling. So stand up, sit down, lean back, lean forward. Yea that will work! It is TFL (at a high level) that is determining over-use and I am inclined to agree. The most common time I hear it is when a route 156 gets to nearly the end of the route at Wimbledon, Alexandra Road. It would make no sense to regulate the service at this point - the route is nearly finished. To passengers it makes it a nonsense announcement. The real reason the bus is sitting there is as it will be early on the stand, and possibly there will not be space. There will be route timing problems on some routes but others will have unpredictable running time combined with a lack of stand capacity. Route 93, one of ours, is a classic example of this. Unpredictable traffic delays in Morden, Wimbledon and Putney on a 6.5 min headway with only a two bus stand at each end. On a quiet morning buses will struggle not to run early but if they do they will overcrowd the terminus and have nowhere to park. Places like Putney Bridge or Victoria are nightmares if all buses arrive early. The best solution to avoid buses hanging about would be to have slightly tight schedules with good recovery time. A lot of routes do not have stand capacity for this so the best compromise is to build what ideally would be recovery time into running time. I agree especially on that last part as the 11s had the same problem when we used to drive them with the RMs and Metros. One could almost walk the running times and still be early at each point.
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Post by beaver14uk on May 18, 2010 17:28:21 GMT
Rather than removing the annoucement personally I think it would have been better to deal with the problem of overuse and educate the drivers a bit more. Most if not all the garage roadshows (including Bromley today) are bringing this issue up with disappointment of the removal. 1) Who is determining 'over-use' ? As has been mentioned already, surely the root of the complaint is the route timings NOT the message activation. 2) On several bus types the speaker is housed in the cab roof/ceiling. So stand up, sit down, lean back, lean forward. Yea that will work! It is TFL (at a high level) that is determining over-use and I am inclined to agree. The most common time I hear it is when a route 156 gets to nearly the end of the route at Wimbledon, Alexandra Road. It would make no sense to regulate the service at this point - the route is nearly finished. To passengers it makes it a nonsense announcement. The real reason the bus is sitting there is as it will be early on the stand, and possibly there will not be space. There will be route timing problems on some routes but others will have unpredictable running time combined with a lack of stand capacity. Route 93, one of ours, is a classic example of this. Unpredictable traffic delays in Morden, Wimbledon and Putney on a 6.5 min headway with only a two bus stand at each end. On a quiet morning buses will struggle not to run early but if they do they will overcrowd the terminus and have nowhere to park. Places like Putney Bridge or Victoria are nightmares if all buses arrive early. The best solution to avoid buses hanging about would be to have slightly tight schedules with good recovery time. A lot of routes do not have stand capacity for this so the best compromise is to build what ideally would be recovery time into running time.
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Post by Paul on May 18, 2010 20:24:58 GMT
I have actually started to use the PA more if it has become necessary to hold the bus. The overwhelming majority of the time it's not because I'm running early; it's because I'm too close to the bus in front due to that bus being late
On those occasions a brief message along the lines of 'My apologies ladies and gentlemen but I'm going to have to hold the bus here briefly' is met not with the tutting and muttering that the pre-recorded message provoked but rather the passengers appear to accept the situation more
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Post by Madstuntman on May 18, 2010 22:16:44 GMT
I think a lot of the problem with it may be people complaining about the use of the ahe announcement. My experence of bus passengers is they don't care about the operation of the service beyond their personal needs. Passenger walks to a bus stop, a bus turns up, lots of green traffic lights (and a 132 just in front of you!! ) and bingo the bus is early. So the driver pulls over at a stop and plays the regulating announcement. Passenger thinks hang on I need to get to the station, this bus is making me miss my train so they complain. and TfL change the rules to suit them. Like the thing where we are ment to stop at every stop that has someone standing at it reguardless of flag colour. Because people don't put their hand out the bus drives past and they complain because it's never their fault, you get a curtailment you change the blind and people who get on AFTER the blind has been changed shout at the driver, because they freely got on a bus thet wasn't going where they wanted it too and they didn't read the blind. Many times (before iBus) when waiting time out mid route (not waiting at 2nd to last stop as some people have mentioned buses do) I've had people have a go at me because they are going to miss their train. and no matter how many times you explain to them that you are early and you arn't making them miss anything because you are EARLY not LATE they still blame the driver. I even had one woman at Bromley north having a go at me telling me there is no such thing as a timetable so I cannot be early cos it just says on the stop "About every 10 minutes" and I'm not due at any bus stop at any time, I'm still not exactly sure how she thought we stay 10 mins apart. This it typical TfL pandering to idiots who can't cope with the way the system has worked for I don't know... 100 ish years!! and it dosen't matter to them how early the bus is as long as it gets THEM to the station, sod everyone else who will miss it because it has run early because they don't matter to that 1 person. And to top all that I think the removing of this announcement discrimates aganced deaf people. If you use a pre recorded announcment it is displayed on the screen for deaf people and announced through the speakers for blind people. If I make announcment using the PA how does the deaf person on the top deck know what is going on?? and I thought the DDA ruled the world?? This is all just my opinion by the way I'm not stating any facts so don't ask me for numbers of complaints about regulating the service or anything.
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Post by snowman on May 19, 2010 5:49:19 GMT
I think complaints will come if passengers perceive injustice, or personal inconvienience. Whilst rarely the direct fault of the driver, the real problem is usually the bus in front has gone too slow (and that could be passengers who caused it, or a driver not really trying to make up time when running late) What really irks passengers is drivers running early for many stops then choosing to regulate just before an interchange or station or terminus so it makes their connection more unlikely.
There are two ways to restore headway, delay everything following or to ask late runner to run non-stop for a few stops. The latter is often usued on trains, but rarely on buses. If it works on trains, why cant it be used for buses. It is better to have a handful of passengers who need to alight and wait following stopping bus, than to delay every passenger on next few buses as they all end up waiting time.
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