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Post by snowman on Jan 20, 2021 12:18:15 GMT
The use of VH45108 (which should really be in the refurb queue prior to its move to Wandsworth) is due to dire state of the 60reg and 62reg ADH From what I can gather of the 49 buses 1 is withdrawn 3 are officially VOR but missing parts 10 are out of service requiring work So only 35 (less than 75%) are usable currently (and that assumes others don’t become defective) If I was the engineering manager I would be pushing for 5-7 withdrawals, so parts could be used to keep remainder of fleet operational, but I suppose with all the pending route gains that would leave a shortfall of hybrids (although in practical terms bigger shortfall currently), so might need to source replacements Be interesting so see what happens here, will money be spent getting parts to revive all dead ones, or will some be authorised to die The fleet does appear to be in a bit of disarray, but the piece of the puzzle you are missing is that most buses are leased not owned, so even if you scrap them you have the monthly lease payment plus their value at the end. The most plausible explanation is that with additional buses in the fleet, they are all being worked through to ensure that when the number of spare buses reduces dramatically, they are all in a good state. From what I can see, there are many vehicles in the refurb line at the moment, so maybe 45108 will join them when the refurbished ones join back in to the fleet. Three or four weeks? I have been involved in leases in a former job, and what you say is correct about possible end of lease costs. However if they are leased, then monthly payments are probably being made for a number of unusable buses. There is a financial trade off between continuing to pay (every month) for dead buses, and settling any balance. I know the first 20 were subsided by a Green bus fund, so part of their cost was sunk decade ago. As 20 of them are now just over 10 years old probably don’t have much of a book value, or return value. Interestingly the 5 HDEs (and 2 early ADHs) were offloaded at a slightly younger age, As these weren’t unsubsidised buses either, I find it hard to believe that the financial position of trying to keep 100% of the fleet as active is more attractive than withdrawing 2 or 3 (not 5-7 as I originally suggested) to create a pool of spares isn’t viable. If none are withdrawn then money has to be spent anyway buying extra spare parts, some of which may be special orders so not cheap.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2021 12:44:49 GMT
Surely if the buses are not fit for use it would be up to the leasing company to cancel the lease or send replacements.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2021 12:48:03 GMT
The fleet does appear to be in a bit of disarray, but the piece of the puzzle you are missing is that most buses are leased not owned, so even if you scrap them you have the monthly lease payment plus their value at the end. The most plausible explanation is that with additional buses in the fleet, they are all being worked through to ensure that when the number of spare buses reduces dramatically, they are all in a good state. From what I can see, there are many vehicles in the refurb line at the moment, so maybe 45108 will join them when the refurbished ones join back in to the fleet. Three or four weeks? I have been involved in leases in a former job, and what you say is correct about possible end of lease costs. However if they are leased, then monthly payments are probably being made for a number of unusable buses. There is a financial trade off between continuing to pay (every month) for dead buses, and settling any balance. I know the first 20 were subsided by a Green bus fund, so part of their cost was sunk decade ago. As 20 of them are now just over 10 years old probably don’t have much of a book value, or return value. Interestingly the 5 HDEs (and 2 early ADHs) were offloaded at a slightly younger age, As these weren’t unsubsidised buses either, I find it hard to believe that the financial position of trying to keep 100% of the fleet as active is more attractive than withdrawing 2 or 3 (not 5-7 as I originally suggested) to create a pool of spares isn’t viable. If none are withdrawn then money has to be spent anyway buying extra spare parts, some of which may be special orders so not cheap. This depends on what the parts are though - don’t forget that at least with ADL, there are some parts still part of the spec that first appeared when the Tridents were first produced and have been used on all buses along the way.
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Post by busdryver on Jan 20, 2021 14:13:58 GMT
Surely if the buses are not fit for use it would be up to the leasing company to cancel the lease or send replacements. Responsibility for maintenance and upkeep is with RATP not the lessor.
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Post by busdryver on Jan 20, 2021 14:16:55 GMT
The fleet does appear to be in a bit of disarray, but the piece of the puzzle you are missing is that most buses are leased not owned, so even if you scrap them you have the monthly lease payment plus their value at the end. The most plausible explanation is that with additional buses in the fleet, they are all being worked through to ensure that when the number of spare buses reduces dramatically, they are all in a good state. From what I can see, there are many vehicles in the refurb line at the moment, so maybe 45108 will join them when the refurbished ones join back in to the fleet. Three or four weeks? I have been involved in leases in a former job, and what you say is correct about possible end of lease costs. However if they are leased, then monthly payments are probably being made for a number of unusable buses. There is a financial trade off between continuing to pay (every month) for dead buses, and settling any balance. I know the first 20 were subsided by a Green bus fund, so part of their cost was sunk decade ago. As 20 of them are now just over 10 years old probably don’t have much of a book value, or return value. Interestingly the 5 HDEs (and 2 early ADHs) were offloaded at a slightly younger age, As these weren’t unsubsidised buses either, I find it hard to believe that the financial position of trying to keep 100% of the fleet as active is more attractive than withdrawing 2 or 3 (not 5-7 as I originally suggested) to create a pool of spares isn’t viable. If none are withdrawn then money has to be spent anyway buying extra spare parts, some of which may be special orders so not cheap. Notwithstanding any thoughts above, every bus is needed during the summer, so there will simply not be anything that can replace them / this is why it looks like a concerted effort is happening to get them all up to speed so that when the new routes arrive, there are sufficient buses. Remember that if a bus is withdrawn from a TfL contract, an identically age and spec (or better) will need to be provided as well as a refurb - most of the early ADHs will have recently been refurbished as well, so that’s another cost to look atX
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Post by Londontransport3 on Jan 21, 2021 11:04:08 GMT
Route E1 out of AV Using E400Hs
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 11:06:54 GMT
Route E1 out of AV Using E400Hs Makes sense, with the Osterley extension?
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Post by Londontransport3 on Jan 21, 2021 11:08:35 GMT
Route E1 out of AV Using E400Hs Makes sense, with the Osterley extension? Yup
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Post by LK65EBO on Jan 21, 2021 11:22:14 GMT
Route E1 out of AV Using E400Hs Looking forward to trying these out if they stray. But knowing how often AV stray the VHs I would imagine not so much.
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Post by adl on Jan 21, 2021 11:29:21 GMT
My guess for the ADHs is:
ADH45003 - ADH45025 (23) Route E3 ADH45026 - ADH45037 (12) Route E1 ADH45039 - ADH45048 (10) Route 266 ADH45049 - ADH45051 (03) Route H12
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Post by COBO on Jan 21, 2021 23:22:42 GMT
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Post by COBO on Jan 21, 2021 23:24:08 GMT
I ask can VHs get around the E1?
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Post by LK65EBO on Jan 22, 2021 13:56:23 GMT
Uh... ADE40445 was on the N18?
Isn't this not allowed?
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Post by greg on Jan 22, 2021 21:59:19 GMT
Uh... ADE40445 was on the N18? Isn't this not allowed? I dont think it is :0 They are only allowed on the 18
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 23, 2021 0:23:18 GMT
Route E1 out of AV Using E400Hs Looking forward to trying these out if they stray. But knowing how often AV stray the VHs I would imagine not so much. Would be good to see these on the 111.
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