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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Oct 28, 2021 13:23:15 GMT
Given how many manufacturers have committed new models to the UK market we should see more breathing room for orders coming. RATP flooded the main supplier with a very large order but that seems to be being fulfilled well. As we’ve seen in the past with operators like Go Ahead putting electrics into service for the first day it can be done but there is currently too much demand and not enough supply which will balance out once the RATP order is completed. It speaks volumes too that the the other operators are happy to have their orders delayed from ADL rather than go somewhere else and have them on time. I’d imagine the best hope of any other electric bus manufacturer getting a significant order from a London operator (ie the biggest market for new buses) would be to develop a bus that is compatible with the ADL chargers. Operator | BYD/ADL charging equipped | Siemens charging equipped | Other ZE tech equipped | No charging equipped | To be confirmed | Abellio | WL and WS | WL, QB and BC | None
| GW | TF | Arriva | BN | TC | None
| AE, DX, CT, DT, MR, EC, E, GY, AD, AR, WN, N and TH | SF | HCT | AW | None | None
| HK | None | Go-Ahead | DS, BX, Q, NP, AL and RA | AL | NX and MB | RR, SI, MG, PM, AF, SW, A and PL | C | Metroline | HT | PB | PV | AH, W, EW, HD, KC, SG, PA, AC, G, UX, UE and WJ | ON (new) | RDLT | BT, SO, FW, WK, S and V | X | None
| CP, AV, RP and TV | None
| Stagecoach | BK, WH, RM, PD and TL | None
| None
| BW, T, NS, TB and KB | None
| Tower | None
| None
| None
| LI | None
| Sullivans | None
| None
| None
| SM | None
| UNO | HF | None
| None
| None
| None
| Grand Total | 23 | 7 | 3 | 46 | 4 |
This just goes to show how many more BYD/ADL equipped garages there are, compared with Siemens.
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Post by rj131 on Oct 28, 2021 13:37:47 GMT
It speaks volumes too that the the other operators are happy to have their orders delayed from ADL rather than go somewhere else and have them on time. I’d imagine the best hope of any other electric bus manufacturer getting a significant order from a London operator (ie the biggest market for new buses) would be to develop a bus that is compatible with the ADL chargers. The issue is more so getting permission from BYD to do so, why would BYD allow another manufacturer to use their chargers when it could take competition away? The next few months in terms of electric bus orders will be very interesting for sure to indicate where the future is heading. Aaahh right I didn’t know they used a bespoke charger created by BYD, I thought it was like a ‘third party’ charger if you like, ie how the Optare’s are charged with Siemen’s equipment. However yes BYD may not let another manufacturer use its chargers, but would that stop another third party charger being created to be compatible with the E400 EVs? (If thats even possible) That could be a way around it. I understand there is some EU regulation that exists for electric cars for there to be some sort of universal charger across all manufacturers, that hasn’t extended to buses. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see that extended to buses some point in time.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 28, 2021 13:39:51 GMT
The issue is more so getting permission from BYD to do so, why would BYD allow another manufacturer to use their chargers when it could take competition away? The next few months in terms of electric bus orders will be very interesting for sure to indicate where the future is heading. Aaahh right I didn’t know they used a bespoke charger created by BYD, I thought it was like a ‘third party’ charger if you like, ie how the Optare’s are charged with Siemen’s equipment. However yes BYD may not let another manufacturer use its chargers, but would that stop another third party charger being created to be compatible with the E400 EVs? That could be a way around it. I understand there is some EU regulation that exists for electric cars for there to be some sort of universal charger across all manufacturers, that hasn’t extended to buses. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see that extended to buses some point in time. It wouldn’t matter what the EU does as we are not in the EU. In terms of ADL they sell very few products on then by continent and as far as I’m aware there is no left hand electric ADL model so any EU ruling is unlikely to affect them.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2021 13:47:05 GMT
The issue is more so getting permission from BYD to do so, why would BYD allow another manufacturer to use their chargers when it could take competition away? The next few months in terms of electric bus orders will be very interesting for sure to indicate where the future is heading. Aaahh right I didn’t know they used a bespoke charger created by BYD, I thought it was like a ‘third party’ charger if you like, ie how the Optare’s are charged with Siemen’s equipment. However yes BYD may not let another manufacturer use its chargers, but would that stop another third party charger being created to be compatible with the E400 EVs? (If thats even possible) That could be a way around it. I understand there is some EU regulation that exists for electric cars for there to be some sort of universal charger across all manufacturers, that hasn’t extended to buses. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see that extended to buses some point in time. The charger for Optare buses isn’t compatible with other types either AFAIK but, and this isn’t confirmed, I’m sure I heard that universal chargers will be available for electric buses further down line. Even if I’ve imagined that, I suspect at least one will happen possibly via a third party as you eluded to.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Oct 28, 2021 13:51:54 GMT
Aaahh right I didn’t know they used a bespoke charger created by BYD, I thought it was like a ‘third party’ charger if you like, ie how the Optare’s are charged with Siemen’s equipment. However yes BYD may not let another manufacturer use its chargers, but would that stop another third party charger being created to be compatible with the E400 EVs? (If thats even possible) That could be a way around it. I understand there is some EU regulation that exists for electric cars for there to be some sort of universal charger across all manufacturers, that hasn’t extended to buses. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see that extended to buses some point in time. The charger for Optare buses isn’t compatible with other types either AFAIK but, and this isn’t confirmed, I’m sure I heard that universal chargers will be available for electric buses further down line. Even if I’ve imagined that, I suspect at least one will happen possibly via a third party as you eluded to. It is compatible with Caetano buses iirc.
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 28, 2021 14:06:33 GMT
Aaahh right I didn’t know they used a bespoke charger created by BYD, I thought it was like a ‘third party’ charger if you like, ie how the Optare’s are charged with Siemen’s equipment. However yes BYD may not let another manufacturer use its chargers, but would that stop another third party charger being created to be compatible with the E400 EVs? That could be a way around it. I understand there is some EU regulation that exists for electric cars for there to be some sort of universal charger across all manufacturers, that hasn’t extended to buses. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see that extended to buses some point in time. It wouldn’t matter what the EU does as we are not in the EU. In terms of ADL they sell very few products on then by continent and as far as I’m aware there is no left hand electric ADL model so any EU ruling is unlikely to affect them. It does matter if it was in effect before we left as all EU laws were taken into ours ... but we are free to change them if we so wish
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 14:08:58 GMT
Would be good if they designed something which looked like those VHRs. They did only it’s much better looking and that is the ADL City Nah, they look nothing like those VHRs.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 28, 2021 14:12:51 GMT
It wouldn’t matter what the EU does as we are not in the EU. In terms of ADL they sell very few products on then by continent and as far as I’m aware there is no left hand electric ADL model so any EU ruling is unlikely to affect them. It does matter if it was in effect before we left as all EU laws were taken into ours ... but we are free to change them if we so wish Moot as it clearly wasn’t EU law then. Besides the UK uses a different voltage level than continental Europe so that would be different anyway.
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 28, 2021 14:26:10 GMT
It does matter if it was in effect before we left as all EU laws were taken into ours ... but we are free to change them if we so wish Moot as it clearly wasn’t EU law then. Besides the UK uses a different voltage level than continental Europe so that would be different anyway. You can get supplies at different voltages in the UK .... EU and the UK is about 230V. We all have a range of 220-240V for home appliances. It is North America that uses lower voltages. It became EU standard in Jan 2013, well before we left
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Post by transportizm on Oct 28, 2021 14:33:50 GMT
Also interesting to note that the 295 tender win is under London United not London Transit but is London Transit applying for tenders yet???
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 28, 2021 14:37:28 GMT
Also interesting to note that the 295 tender win is under London United not London Transit but is London Transit applying for tenders yet??? No because London Transit doesn’t exist yet. It won’t exist until the joint venture is finalised.
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 28, 2021 14:38:41 GMT
Also interesting to note that the 295 tender win is under London United not London Transit but is London Transit applying for tenders yet??? RATP Dev Transit London hasn't formally come into being yet, when it does the award will be novated to the new company.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2021 14:46:54 GMT
They did only it’s much better looking and that is the ADL City Nah, they look nothing like those VHRs. The City was part developed at least to look as similar to a LT as possible without incurring any infringements - they have a lot of similarities between them so you can't dismiss it out of hand. They aren't going to look 100% considering Wrightbus manufactured the New Routemaster body and ADL didn't. The New Routemaster body has been discontinued for some time and thank goodness IMO.
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Post by kmkcheng on Oct 28, 2021 15:06:04 GMT
Also interesting to note that the 295 tender win is under London United not London Transit but is London Transit applying for tenders yet??? Because the merger hasn’t been completed yet so they are still their respective company names
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Post by TB123 on Oct 28, 2021 15:15:25 GMT
Latest I'm hearing is that Park Royal will close with the routes reallocated to other garages - and Wandsworth kept open for TfL routes. Personally, I can't see this one, but it is does have a degree of plasusability what with development in the Park Royal/Old Oak Common area and the extra capacity offered by Westbourne Park.
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