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Post by snowman on Jul 31, 2022 8:11:48 GMT
I even wonder whether any single-deck routes with RATP could be double-decked, using ADEs ex route 142 or VHs ex route H91? 203 is a good candidate. It does actually need them too. The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me.
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Post by kmkcheng on Jul 31, 2022 8:27:16 GMT
I wonder where driver changeovers for route 226 will occur if it does indeed operate from X? Admittedly there is a direct bus (328) from X to Golders Green but no direct rail connection to anywhere on that route. They could walk up to Harrow Road and take the 18 to Harlesden to have changeovers there
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Post by mb171 on Jul 31, 2022 8:43:09 GMT
The 337 was run by London United 1999-2004 and then passed to Arriva who ran it up until 2011 but its hard to see that route returning to Arriva since they no longer have WD. To be honest I'm surprised Abellio haven't won the 337 yet, especially seeing as QB is quite near to CLJ iirc. They could also do it from TF, so this gives them the advantage over Arriva a. because they don't have WD and b. there's no reasonable garage I can think of that can take it. AF is also very well placed, sitting somewhere in the middle of the route I think, hence why GAL have it. 337 could run out of Brixton garage as Brixton is not too far from Clapham Junction?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 31, 2022 8:47:01 GMT
To be honest I'm surprised Abellio haven't won the 337 yet, especially seeing as QB is quite near to CLJ iirc. They could also do it from TF, so this gives them the advantage over Arriva a. because they don't have WD and b. there's no reasonable garage I can think of that can take it. AF is also very well placed, sitting somewhere in the middle of the route I think, hence why GAL have it. 337 could run out of Brixton garage as Brixton is not too far from Clapham Junction? Yes but it wouldn’t happen as Arriva don’t bid for every route going unlike other operators.
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Post by Green Kitten on Jul 31, 2022 9:06:50 GMT
203 is a good candidate. It does actually need them too. The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me. How on earth can a 12m single deck be 90/100 capacity? They have always been considered 70 capacity so crushing at least 20 more people - how does that work. Edit: I know capacity per area has been reduced a bit hence we’re seeing the 11.4m buses considered as 70 capacity vehicles. But 20 more people within 0.6m? Can’t see it.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2022 10:18:34 GMT
337 could run out of Brixton garage as Brixton is not too far from Clapham Junction? Yes but it wouldn’t happen as Arriva don’t bid for every route going unlike other operators. But then they do bid for strange routes from time to time. Even though now operated by London North, the current route 19 contract was won by London South from presumably BN. But having said that, London South garages were not as full then as they are now, so maybe don't need to look as far afield. Imagine inner North London is where they are having to be more imaginative currently, maybe East London. Would never of had the 202 down as a route Arriva would bid for.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2022 10:25:32 GMT
The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me. How on earth can a 12m single deck be 90/100 capacity? They have always been considered 70 capacity so crushing at least 20 more people - how does that work. Edit: I know capacity per area has been reduced a bit hence we’re seeing the 11.4m buses considered as 70 capacity vehicles. But 20 more people within 0.6m? Can’t see it. 11.4m buses are generally light weight construction, so are restricted to GWT of 14.5 tonnes. 12m buses are generally heavyweight constructions so their GWT is 19 tonnes. Lightweight buses capacity is restricted by this, though sure you see many that are overloaded. Oh, and the weight of batteries reduces capacity as well.
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Post by Gary on Jul 31, 2022 10:35:27 GMT
The post on ADH made me think, how many older double decks can RATP afford to lose 1 from loss of 671 About 6 are covering VH and LT refurbishments 12 BCEs are still to enter service On 29th October gain 295, getting new BCEs (although is possibility existing buses might have to cover for a while) About November (whenever Bond Street station opens), 94 is due to cut back to Portman Square saving about 7 or 8 buses 7th January routes 142 and 642 lost (about 21 buses) 14th January route 635 lost (3 buses) 4th March routes H32 and H91 lost (about 27 buses) Roughly 75 current double decks will no longer be needed, realistically that is the remaining SPs (about 55) and 20 others. My guess is the 7 2011 VDWs (41001-7), and about 13 of older (or damaged) ADEs or ADHs Could be a few more if there are more PVR cuts I don’t own a crystal ball, but after this I cannot see many more double decks leaving during 2023 and 2024 (unless there are more route losses), although about 80 single decks are likely to be replaced by new electric single decks upto end of 2024 I even wonder whether any single-deck routes with RATP could be double-decked, using ADEs ex route 142 or VHs ex route H91? 216 results are due imminently; double decking that would free up some MMCs to use elsewhere. Otherwise, 33 or 411?
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Jul 31, 2022 10:51:57 GMT
203 is a good candidate. It does actually need them too. The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me. I think as many have said, 12m buses have a lower capacity than 87 due to many factors reducing capacity e.g. weight/batteries. It already gets deckers very often (usually SPs) so they might as well deck it, hopefully with earlier ADHs off E3 as that would presumably get H91's VHs (AV is seemingly a Wright-free garage).
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jul 31, 2022 11:24:10 GMT
Just saw a FW bus from the top and noticed the BE prefix was not shown on the rooftop code. It said RTP 37076.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 31, 2022 11:47:09 GMT
203 is a good candidate. It does actually need them too. The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me. Maybe the VHs would still be a reasonable age? Mind you, route 203 uses full-size single-decks. I wondered whether any routes using E200s could upgrade to double-deck?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 31, 2022 11:49:35 GMT
Yes but it wouldn’t happen as Arriva don’t bid for every route going unlike other operators. But then they do bid for strange routes from time to time. Even though now operated by London North, the current route 19 contract was won by London South from presumably BN. But having said that, London South garages were not as full then as they are now, so maybe don't need to look as far afield. Imagine inner North London is where they are having to be more imaginative currently, maybe East London. Would never of had the 202 down as a route Arriva would bid for. They are imaginative. It is just the market is very competitive, especially in certain areas and of recent bargain basement rules due to TfL's tightening purse strings. There are a lot of routes bid for in East London area but never gained, some have been successful of recent, including 158, 103, 175, 248. Other East London routes bid for include 62 and 145.
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Post by snowman on Jul 31, 2022 12:53:31 GMT
Just saw a FW bus from the top and noticed the BE prefix was not shown on the rooftop code. It said RTP 37076. Although FW are using it, it is actually a route 235 bus
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Post by snowman on Jul 31, 2022 13:02:52 GMT
The 203 is up for tender, results due September for a contract from September 2023 to September 2030, so the ADEs will be far too old. However as manufacturers are now making 90-100 capacity 12m electric single decks, I cannot see any gain in changing to an 87 capacity double deck, so double decking it seems a poor idea to me. How on earth can a 12m single deck be 90/100 capacity? They have always been considered 70 capacity so crushing at least 20 more people - how does that work. Edit: I know capacity per area has been reduced a bit hence we’re seeing the 11.4m buses considered as 70 capacity vehicles. But 20 more people within 0.6m? Can’t see it. It is total capacity, standing and sitting, but more a weight based thing Of course don’t get that many seats in high standing configuration, but it is designed for services that might only have high number for few minutes, for few stops, for short busy periods, with rest of service running with say less than 30 passengers. Many double deck designs only have about 20 seats downstairs so lots will stand if only going short distance. Ultimately it is trade off, but a top deck that is virtually empty 90%+ of the time is not an efficient use of resources .
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Post by YX10FFN on Jul 31, 2022 13:08:24 GMT
I wonder where driver changeovers for route 226 will occur if it does indeed operate from X? Admittedly there is a direct bus (328) from X to Golders Green but no direct rail connection to anywhere on that route. Would’ve been much easier back in the days when BR stopped at Westbourne Park!
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