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Post by bmck on Nov 18, 2024 19:30:13 GMT
Is this entirely down to the operator (and did Metroline manage better with PB being nearer the other end of the route) - or is the 125 perhaps too long now with the extension to Colindale? If stand space could be found, maybe the 125 could be cut back to Southgate, and a new route introduced from Barnet to Winchmore Hill? This would also create a direct Barnet-Southgate link. If not, some other changes in the Southgate area could free up some space - for example withdraw the 299, extend the W9 to Arnos Grove, reroute the 298 to Muswell Hill and extend the W6 to Cockfosters? The operation under Metroline was a much better experience pre-2021 even with the Colindale extension. All the route needs is an improved controlled operator with not even a '30% rule' being enforced as what I've seen today. How did these cowboys retain this route? I drove the 125 for PB until the end.(You'll find me on the SL1 these days) We were plagued by roadworks (like all of London) but we turned from both ends, basic stuff really. It's not just BT where there's no clue how to control. The 13 has a history of disaster, nowadays they block Golders Green, block North Finchley (Kingsway)! I really sympathise with the good people of N21 who rely on this service. So annoying are RATP. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Nov 19, 2024 17:18:25 GMT
The capacity of a LT isn't much bigger than a conventional bus and they hold less seats too. Three door boarding was removed a number of years ago and whilst the two rear doors can be used to alight, you can only board through the front door so dwell times at the busy stops on LT routes have no doubt increased for boarding as a result. And despite all the money spent on them, they're still worse than almost all conventional buses during the hot weather. LT11 was electrified and seems to spend more time out of service than in so on the face of it, it's looks a failure. Also, the cost of modifying a bus to electric power aren't necessarily cheaper than buying a new bus - it really all depends especially if your modified bus spends more time sitting in the garage than out on the road. The change to front boarding on LTs would indeed have increased dwell times at those stops where many people board, though LTs should still be much quicker than other types at places where large numbers are mainly alighting. Hard to say when there's a lot of both, though there may actually be better passenger flow through the bus now no one will normally be heading up the rear staircase. Seating capacity of an LT is 62 - the same as nearly all types of bodywork on B5LH chassis, four or five fewer than many MMCs and BYD / Cities but two more than a StreetDeck Electroliner, so all in all not much in it. I believe LT11 was initially planned to be on a 6-month trial but operated for only around two to three, split into various spells over a 10-month period. It's hard to say how reliable it was without knowing whether it was used for any testing during those gaps in its use on the 390, or otherwise what the issues keeping it from running were (it did return to HT under its own power on 29th November last year and didn't appear again until 11th December, so not a major failure in that case at least). Since then Wrightbus have stated their capability to convert LTs at their Newpower facility, while Equipmake have gone on to repower other buses including First York's Optare Versas (which were already EVs, but had their full drivetrains replaced) and Big Bus Company's Anhui Ankais. Obviously sightseeing buses don't have the year-round mileage of those on regular services, and neither do they show on tracking sites but those are at least a common sight in Central London, while First's Versas all appear to be in regular use looking on Bustimes. I wonder whether, as can sometimes be the case, since the trial of LT11 only involved one vehicle, perhaps there wasn't the momentum behind the project compared to a conversion of a larger fleet with fewer options to fall back on? It may just be because of the large number of tourists on the 24, but passengers are rubbish at moving towards the back of an LT and using all space available for standing (and using the third staircase and door for alighting). I still think the centre door is too far forward which leads to poor standing efficiency as no one tends to like to stand beyond it (despite there being a third door behind them so it's not like they'd be stuck trying to alight!).The flow of passengers is still affected by passengers going up the front stairs meeting those coming down). Maybe it would help if the stairs were made one way. But good luck enforcing that!
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CustomTransport277
Conductor
Your local transport enthusiast who is based in Greater London
Posts: 139 
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Post by CustomTransport277 on Nov 21, 2024 0:01:37 GMT
The operation under Metroline was a much better experience pre-2021 even with the Colindale extension. All the route needs is an improved controlled operator with not even a '30% rule' being enforced as what I've seen today. How did these cowboys retain this route? I drove the 125 for PB until the end.(You'll find me on the SL1 these days) We were plagued by roadworks (like all of London) but we turned from both ends, basic stuff really. It's not just BT where there's no clue how to control. The 13 has a history of disaster, nowadays they block Golders Green, block North Finchley (Kingsway)! I really sympathise with the good people of N21 who rely on this service. So annoying are RATP. This is probably just my bias speaking here but the only reason why I’m happy about the 125 staying with RATP, is just because of the company still operating a day route in the borough of Enfield, further towards the eastern side of London, as I find routes with operators in unexpected areas like 125 interesting. Obviously if I was a regular passenger who travelled on this route every week and had to suffer from the annoyance of poor frequency etc., then my opinion would probably be different. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 21, 2024 5:55:31 GMT
The operation under Metroline was a much better experience pre-2021 even with the Colindale extension. All the route needs is an improved controlled operator with not even a '30% rule' being enforced as what I've seen today. How did these cowboys retain this route? I drove the 125 for PB until the end.(You'll find me on the SL1 these days) We were plagued by roadworks (like all of London) but we turned from both ends, basic stuff really. It's not just BT where there's no clue how to control. The 13 has a history of disaster, nowadays they block Golders Green, block North Finchley (Kingsway)! I really sympathise with the good people of N21 who rely on this service. So annoying are RATP. I think the fact that RATP did retain the 125 shows that the current tendering system is no longer fit for purpose. |
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Post by Gary on Nov 21, 2024 7:40:49 GMT
As the temperature drops, I guess we will be seeing more DLE’s on 290 and 371 and more BE’s on 33.
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Post by cardinal on Nov 21, 2024 8:16:52 GMT
How did these cowboys retain this route? I drove the 125 for PB until the end.(You'll find me on the SL1 these days) We were plagued by roadworks (like all of London) but we turned from both ends, basic stuff really. It's not just BT where there's no clue how to control. The 13 has a history of disaster, nowadays they block Golders Green, block North Finchley (Kingsway)! I really sympathise with the good people of N21 who rely on this service. So annoying are RATP. I think the fact that RATP did retain the 125 shows that the current tendering system is no longer fit for purpose. Has the information on tender prices been published yet? Can’t really imagine that opinion standing up to scrutiny in a board room. Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. |
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Post by paulo on Nov 21, 2024 9:16:10 GMT
I think the fact that RATP did retain the 125 shows that the current tendering system is no longer fit for purpose. Has the information on tender prices been published yet? Can’t really imagine that opinion standing up to scrutiny in a board room. Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. 100%. A reliable service is key of course but witnessing the state of some of the vehicles on the 90, 190 and 237 shouldn’t be overlooked either. |
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 21, 2024 10:35:24 GMT
Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. That's not the case at all, people would just like their bus to turn up, which they did under Metroline on the 125. |
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Post by LK65EBO on Nov 21, 2024 10:40:29 GMT
Has the information on tender prices been published yet? Can’t really imagine that opinion standing up to scrutiny in a board room. Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. 100%. A reliable service is key of course but witnessing the state of some of the vehicles on the 90, 190 and 237 shouldn’t be overlooked either. What don’t you like about the 90d buses out of interest? |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 21, 2024 10:58:20 GMT
I think the fact that RATP did retain the 125 shows that the current tendering system is no longer fit for purpose. Has the information on tender prices been published yet? Can’t really imagine that opinion standing up to scrutiny in a board room. Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. The service on the 125 under RATP has been nothing short of lamentable, I've seen it for myself and there have been numerous posts on here about it. I'm not a 'fan boy' of any operator but I'm pretty sure either Metroline or Arriva would do a much better job. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 21, 2024 11:08:47 GMT
Has the information on tender prices been published yet? Can’t really imagine that opinion standing up to scrutiny in a board room. Probably more likely just some people would rather Metroline dominate the entire region. The service on the 125 under RATP has been nothing short of lamentable, I've seen it for myself and there have been numerous posts on here about it. I'm not a 'fan boy' of any operator but I'm pretty sure either Metroline or Arriva would do a much better job. How often do you take the 125? |
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Post by Gary on Nov 21, 2024 14:39:01 GMT
One of our local councillors has made it his mission to improve the service on 235. Here is what he has posted on Facebook:
The Shambolic 235 Bus Service
I was informed several months ago that there were problems with the 235 bus service, which was constantly terminating early at the Three Horseshoes Pub and turning around back through feltham, leaving passengers stranded.
Following that, I got in touch with the Hounslow Heath bus garage, which operates the 235 route, and they informed me of certain roadworks and staffing concerns that were causing the issues. At the time, I made it clear that this does not justify stopping the service early and leaving passengers stranded further up the route.
That was a few months ago, but over the past few weeks, I've heard from dozens of you that the service is still in disarray and that it is frequently cutting back on services, leaving large groups of people, including the elderly and schoolchildren, stranded, and at times up to six buses will stop early in a row. In order to find out why they are still cutting back on services, I contacted the garage earlier this week and set up a meeting with the general manager.
I have now received a new list of excuses, this time mentioning that a portion of the route is now 20 mph, then there are drivers meal breaks and legal driving hours. I was very firm in stating that the RATP are at fault and that Spelthorne residents shouldn't have to pay the price for RAPT incompetence over several months.
I have now been promised that there will be an improvement but still was not filled with confidence therefore, I need complaints to be raised so we cover all bases. The service isn’t run by TFL, but they log the complaints and then contact the operator, the RATP group. We need to highlight to TFL what a shambles this service is. The link is provided.
In addition to the complaint, the email address below is the one to reach Philip Gerhardt, who is handling this matter at TFL. Since he is ultimately the person to whom RAPT is accountable, any correspondence outlining how this ongoing disruption is negatively impacting your lives will also help our fight.
philipgerhardt@tfl.gov.uk
As frustrating as this is, please can we remain calm and not abuse the drivers, as all they are doing is following instructions from their controllers. The blame sits firmly with the RATP group, and I have made it crystal clear that this is their problem to sort out and quickly.
Thank you again to all the residents who have provided me with information these past few months.
Best wishes
Harry
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Post by mark on Nov 21, 2024 16:08:02 GMT
One of our local MPs has made it his mission to improve the service on 235. Here is what he has posted on Facebook: The Shambolic 235 Bus Service I was informed several months ago that there were problems with the 235 bus service, which was constantly terminating early at the Three Horseshoes Pub and turning around back through feltham, leaving passengers stranded. Following that, I got in touch with the Hounslow Heath bus garage, which operates the 235 route, and they informed me of certain roadworks and staffing concerns that were causing the issues. At the time, I made it clear that this does not justify stopping the service early and leaving passengers stranded further up the route. That was a few months ago, but over the past few weeks, I've heard from dozens of you that the service is still in disarray and that it is frequently cutting back on services, leaving large groups of people, including the elderly and schoolchildren, stranded, and at times up to six buses will stop early in a row. In order to find out why they are still cutting back on services, I contacted the garage earlier this week and set up a meeting with the general manager. I have now received a new list of excuses, this time mentioning that a portion of the route is now 20 mph, then there are drivers meal breaks and legal driving hours. I was very firm in stating that the RATP are at fault and that Spelthorne residents shouldn't have to pay the price for RAPT incompetence over several months. I have now been promised that there will be an improvement but still was not filled with confidence therefore, I need complaints to be raised so we cover all bases. The service isn’t run by TFL, but they log the complaints and then contact the operator, the RATP group. We need to highlight to TFL what a shambles this service is. The link is provided. In addition to the complaint, the email address below is the one to reach Philip Gerhardt, who is handling this matter at TFL. Since he is ultimately the person to whom RAPT is accountable, any correspondence outlining how this ongoing disruption is negatively impacting your lives will also help our fight. philipgerhardt@tfl.gov.uk As frustrating as this is, please can we remain calm and not abuse the drivers, as all they are doing is following instructions from their controllers. The blame sits firmly with the RATP group, and I have made it crystal clear that this is their problem to sort out and quickly. Thank you again to all the residents who have provided me with information these past few months. Best wishes Harry Has this been posted on behalf of Lincoln Jopp, the Spelthorne MP or Seema Malhotra who represents Feltham? It's a bit "off" to say that it's all RATPs fault and then post Philip Gerhardt's (at TfL) email address in a social media forum. No doubt the poor soul is now going to get inundated with emails from disgruntled of Lower Feltham and Spelthorne about each and every perceived shortcoming in the area's bus services! Of course, if it's Jopp the obvious retort (and I speak as a Spelthorne resident) is that the 235 is run by Transport for London and not Surrey County Council! If he's that concerned be should be campaigning for Spelthorne to become part of Greater London. The borough is, after all, historically part of Middlesex and the only part of Surrey north of the Thames. It's entire population lives within the M25 (which is what most lay people consider to be the boundary of London these days!). There are fewer crossing points between Spelthorne and the rest of Surrey than there were between east and west Berlin at the height of the cold war and to get to or from Stanwell Moor by road you have to drive through greater London! I could go on.... |
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Post by TB123 on Nov 21, 2024 16:26:17 GMT
One of our local MPs has made it his mission to improve the service on 235. Here is what he has posted on Facebook: The Shambolic 235 Bus Service I was informed several months ago that there were problems with the 235 bus service, which was constantly terminating early at the Three Horseshoes Pub and turning around back through feltham, leaving passengers stranded. Following that, I got in touch with the Hounslow Heath bus garage, which operates the 235 route, and they informed me of certain roadworks and staffing concerns that were causing the issues. At the time, I made it clear that this does not justify stopping the service early and leaving passengers stranded further up the route. That was a few months ago, but over the past few weeks, I've heard from dozens of you that the service is still in disarray and that it is frequently cutting back on services, leaving large groups of people, including the elderly and schoolchildren, stranded, and at times up to six buses will stop early in a row. In order to find out why they are still cutting back on services, I contacted the garage earlier this week and set up a meeting with the general manager. I have now received a new list of excuses, this time mentioning that a portion of the route is now 20 mph, then there are drivers meal breaks and legal driving hours. I was very firm in stating that the RATP are at fault and that Spelthorne residents shouldn't have to pay the price for RAPT incompetence over several months. I have now been promised that there will be an improvement but still was not filled with confidence therefore, I need complaints to be raised so we cover all bases. The service isn’t run by TFL, but they log the complaints and then contact the operator, the RATP group. We need to highlight to TFL what a shambles this service is. The link is provided. In addition to the complaint, the email address below is the one to reach Philip Gerhardt, who is handling this matter at TFL. Since he is ultimately the person to whom RAPT is accountable, any correspondence outlining how this ongoing disruption is negatively impacting your lives will also help our fight. philipgerhardt@tfl.gov.uk As frustrating as this is, please can we remain calm and not abuse the drivers, as all they are doing is following instructions from their controllers. The blame sits firmly with the RATP group, and I have made it crystal clear that this is their problem to sort out and quickly. Thank you again to all the residents who have provided me with information these past few months. Best wishes Harry Has this been posted on behalf of Lincoln Jopp, the Spelthorne MP or Seema Malhotra who represents Feltham? It's a bit "off" to say that it's all RATPs fault and then post Philip Gerhardt's (at TfL) email address in a social media forum. No doubt the poor soul is now going to get inundated with emails from disgruntled of Lower Feltham and Spelthorne about each and every perceived shortcoming in the area's bus services! Of course, if it's Jopp the obvious retort (and I speak as a Spelthorne resident) is that the 235 is run by Transport for London and not Surrey County Council! If he's that concerned be should be campaigning for Spelthorne to become part of Greater London. The borough is, after all, historically part of Middlesex and the only part of Surrey north of the Thames. It's entire population lives within the M25 (which is what most lay people consider to be the boundary of London these days!). There are fewer crossing points between Spelthorne and the rest of Surrey than there were between east and west Berlin at the height of the cold war and to get to or from Stanwell Moor by road you have to drive through greater London! I could go on.... Given the Spelthorne-centric writing style, it looks like Lincoln Jopp. For a former military colonel you’d have hoped he’d be more aware of real life factors…. |
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Post by LK65EBO on Nov 21, 2024 16:32:52 GMT
Funny that Metroline ran the 235 fine under the same traffic conditions and frankly even worse roadworks.
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