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Post by londonbuses on Nov 22, 2024 0:26:28 GMT
The BEs are banned from the K3 due to a very low bridge on Ewell Road in Long Ditton. Converting this route to EVs will be interesting then, maybe the new E200EV with ‘real estate being saved on the roof’ (as ADL like to call it) could be its saviour? Could still be too tall though Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). |
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 22, 2024 0:59:47 GMT
Converting this route to EVs will be interesting then, maybe the new E200EV with ‘real estate being saved on the roof’ (as ADL like to call it) could be its saviour? Could still be too tall though Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). Would the Metrocity EV fit any of the remaining routes mentioned? |
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 22, 2024 1:09:34 GMT
Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). Would the Metrocity EV fit any of the remaining routes mentioned? Should fit all of them, but was discounting them as an option due to their unreliability and the fact I can't see any operators ordering them again after previous experiences. Worst comes to the worst, if there are no other suitable bus types available by 2030, and the route cannot be rerouted or the road lowered, then Metrocities might be ordered. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2024 2:51:35 GMT
Would the Metrocity EV fit any of the remaining routes mentioned? Should fit all of them, but was discounting them as an option due to their unreliability and the fact I can't see any operators ordering them again after previous experiences. Worst comes to the worst, if there are no other suitable bus types available by 2030, and the route cannot be rerouted or the road lowered, then Metrocities might be ordered. You keep mentioning this unreliability factor yet there is no actual evidence for this? Discount it if you simply think no one will order any now other options are on the market which I think is a more fair assessment but otherwise lets stick to the know things here. |
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Post by PGAT on Nov 22, 2024 7:13:06 GMT
Should fit all of them, but was discounting them as an option due to their unreliability and the fact I can't see any operators ordering them again after previous experiences. Worst comes to the worst, if there are no other suitable bus types available by 2030, and the route cannot be rerouted or the road lowered, then Metrocities might be ordered. You keep mentioning this unreliability factor yet there is no actual evidence for this? Discount it if you simply think no one will order any now other options are on the market which I think is a more fair assessment but otherwise lets stick to the know things here. Probably referring to Arriva’s EMCs although not a good example as time has moved on and there are more Metrocities with better reliability running in London just fine |
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Post by routew15 on Nov 22, 2024 7:25:16 GMT
Converting this route to EVs will be interesting then, maybe the new E200EV with ‘real estate being saved on the roof’ (as ADL like to call it) could be its saviour? Could still be too tall though Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). - 3200mm (10’6”) Which structure along the K5 is 9’6” ? |
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Post by SK02XHP (DPS30639) on Nov 22, 2024 7:47:52 GMT
Ahh no worries, what about from the 216? I'm not too sure why they don't stray onto the 216 to be honest, I believe one BE has done the route a few years ago but nothing since. When the route was at WK, I believe BE37063 had a few hours out on one day but no news of any strays since the route moved back to FW in 2023 |
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Post by SK02XHP (DPS30639) on Nov 22, 2024 7:51:31 GMT
Converting this route to EVs will be interesting then, maybe the new E200EV with ‘real estate being saved on the roof’ (as ADL like to call it) could be its saviour? Could still be too tall though Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). Seeing as the K3’s contract is due in June 2025 it’ll be interesting to see if the route will be one to utilise the new E200 EV if retained by RATP or if it passes back to Transport UK however they may well decide to re route via the low bridge on St Mary’s Road and then Fleece Road much to the annoyance of the residents of Effingham Road to achieve getting EVs on the route in some form or other. |
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Post by cardinal on Nov 22, 2024 7:52:37 GMT
Funny that Metroline ran the 235 fine under the same traffic conditions and frankly even worse roadworks. To be honest I think the roadworks have got significantly worse in the last couple of years. The worst offender has to be Centrica which is currently digging up every road in the country (or so it seems) to install lined gas pipes for the hydrogen supply that will almost certainly never happen. At one stage this summer there were four sets of temporary traffic lights between Feltham Station and Staines town centre plus a total closure of Chertsey Road in Lower Feltham. Suffice it to say the timetable on the 117 and 235 collapsed. Exactly. TfL have posted a service status report on the 235 referring to roadworks delaying the service. I don’t think you can fairly compare service levels either compared to several years / months ago. It’s very much a focal route for complaints. Yet there are dozens of other routes across London which don’t operate reliably. The ratp v Metroline comparison is often mentioned, yet nobody uses the 182 on here for example , which has also failed most of its targets over the previous 12 months. Very little context on offer |
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Post by DE20106 on Nov 22, 2024 7:57:01 GMT
Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). - 3200mm (10’6”) Which structure along the K5 is 9’6” ? Wow the BZL easily looks as tall as the Kite so I’m surprised it’s only 10’6. So the BZL solves the 272, 393 and K3 then. (Well if a bus is allowed to be the *exact* height to enable it to scrape under the 272’s bridge, literally! 😂) The 170 really will get sticky then, no wonder they’ve pushed it on to 2030 to procrastinate the problem |
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Post by DE20106 on Nov 22, 2024 7:58:36 GMT
Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). Seeing as the K3’s contract is due in June 2025 it’ll be interesting to see if the route will be one to utilise the new E200 EV if retained by RATP or if it passes back to Transport UK however they may well decide to re route via the low bridge on St Mary’s Road and then Fleece Road much to the annoyance of the residents of Effingham Road to achieve getting EVs on the route in some form or other. As someone else posted the BZL is 10’6’ so will probably by the default be the option for the K3  (and 393 and 272) EDIT: misread the E200EV’s height!😂 |
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 22, 2024 8:09:36 GMT
Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). - 3200mm (10’6”) Which structure along the K5 is 9’6” ? Thanks! I'm surprised the BZL isn't taller as it looks very similar to the Kite in terms of the top-heavy design. The K5's low bridge is on Queen Elizabeth Road (just off the Kingston one-way system), which it only goes under in one direction towards Ham. |
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 22, 2024 8:18:26 GMT
Low Bridge heights for the routes which have exceptionally low bridges: 170 - 10'0"/10'9" 272 - 10'6" 393 - 10'9" K3 - 11'0" K5 - 9'6" Bus heights, values found on brochures available online, and usually converted from metres and rounded (so may be inaccurate): BYD/ADL E200EV - 11'2" Wright Electroliner Kite - 11'1" Volvo BZL SD - Unknown (would appreciate it if someone had the details) ADL E200EV - 10'10" (ADL E100EV - 10'2") So the ADL E200EV should be perfect for the K3 as you suggest, although a solution will still be needed for the 170, 272, 393 and K5 (the 272 will probably end up being diverted away from the bridge in question to be honest). Seeing as the K3’s contract is due in June 2025 it’ll be interesting to see if the route will be one to utilise the new E200 EV if retained by RATP or if it passes back to Transport UK however they may well decide to re route via the low bridge on St Mary’s Road and then Fleece Road much to the annoyance of the residents of Effingham Road to achieve getting EVs on the route in some form or other. I imagine the K3 will be retained with its existing diesels for 3 years, seeing as TUK don't have any space available unless they lose the 285, and the large majority of RATP routes with compliant buses have been retained with their existing buses. I can't see the K3 being diverted away from the low bridge, with two suitable bus types available to pass under the low bridge in the ADL E200EV and Volvo BZL. |
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Post by mark on Nov 22, 2024 8:24:46 GMT
Volvo BZL - 3200mm (10’6”) Which structure along the K5 is 9’6” ? Wow the BZL easily looks as tall as the Kite so I’m surprised it’s only 10’6. So the BZL solves the 272, 393 and K3 then. (Well if a bus is allowed to be the *exact* height to enable it to scrape under the 272’s bridge, literally! 😂) The 170 really will get sticky then, no wonder they’ve pushed it on to 2030 to procrastinate the problem The signed height is the max height of a vehicle that can pass, it is not the height of the bridge, so if you're the same height of the sign, you can go through. Bridges are measured, rounded down to the to 0, 3, 6 or 9 inches in the foot, then have 3 inches deducted and signed at that height. If the sign is a triangular “warning” then you can pass it regardless but could end up being prosecuted if you hit the bridge. If it’s a circular “mandatory” sign simply passing it is an offence. In recent years many warning signs have been replaced by mandatory ones to try and reduce the incidence of bridge strikes. |
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Post by LK65EBO on Nov 22, 2024 9:24:08 GMT
Funny that Metroline ran the 235 fine under the same traffic conditions and frankly even worse roadworks. To be honest I think the roadworks have got significantly worse in the last couple of years. The worst offender has to be Centrica which is currently digging up every road in the country (or so it seems) to install lined gas pipes for the hydrogen supply that will almost certainly never happen. At one stage this summer there were four sets of temporary traffic lights between Feltham Station and Staines town centre plus a total closure of Chertsey Road in Lower Feltham. Suffice it to say the timetable on the 117 and 235 collapsed. Metroline had to deal with the Feltham bridge closure which definitely caused more disruption. |
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(and 393 and 272)