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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 17:41:07 GMT
Post by WH241 on Feb 2, 2022 17:41:07 GMT
I am surprised though the 383 contract hasn't been awarded earlier. why would it have been awarded earlier? Exactly - we haven't had any tender awards since October so why would the 383 be a exception? the 186 and 384 are due to new start new contracts around the same time.
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 17:43:47 GMT
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Post by uakari on Feb 2, 2022 17:43:47 GMT
why would it have been awarded earlier? Exactly - we haven't had any tender awards since October so why would the 383 be a exception? the 186 and 384 are due to new start new contracts around the same time. Perhaps it might be delayed if they are considering other routing options such as an extension to Potters Bar if they 84 is withdrawn, but maybe that is thinking too highly of TfL.
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 17:46:17 GMT
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Post by Busboy105 on Feb 2, 2022 17:46:17 GMT
Exactly - we haven't had any tender awards since October so why would the 383 be a exception? the 186 and 384 are due to new start new contracts around the same time. Perhaps it might be delayed if they are considering other routing options such as an extension to Potters Bar if they 84 is withdrawn, but maybe that is thinking too highly of TfL. The 84 isn't being withdrawn; it's been confirmed. Edit: seen the upcoming changes thread. They can't can they?
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 2, 2022 17:58:45 GMT
Perhaps it might be delayed if they are considering other routing options such as an extension to Potters Bar if they 84 is withdrawn, but maybe that is thinking too highly of TfL. The 84 isn't being withdrawn; it's been confirmed. Edit: seen the upcoming changes thread. They can't can they? Well yes, they can. If a commercial route isn't making any money and a council can't afford to support it then yes, they can.
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 18:42:43 GMT
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Post by uakari on Feb 2, 2022 18:42:43 GMT
The 84 isn't being withdrawn; it's been confirmed. Edit: seen the upcoming changes thread. They can't can they? Well yes, they can. If a commercial route isn't making any money and a council can't afford to support it then yes, they can. TfL should also be supporting it as runs within London too. It shouldn't all fall to Herts CC as it's not fully within their area.
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 18:47:56 GMT
Post by SILENCED on Feb 2, 2022 18:47:56 GMT
Well yes, they can. If a commercial route isn't making any money and a council can't afford to support it then yes, they can. TfL should also be supporting it as runs within London too. It shouldn't all fall to Herts CC as it's not fully within their area. Are Herts CC proposing any money to support it?
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 19:26:30 GMT
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 2, 2022 19:26:30 GMT
Well yes, they can. If a commercial route isn't making any money and a council can't afford to support it then yes, they can. TfL should also be supporting it as runs within London too. It shouldn't all fall to Herts CC as it's not fully within their area. but it still wouldn't reach Potters Bar
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 19:31:08 GMT
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 2, 2022 19:31:08 GMT
TfL should also be supporting it as runs within London too. It shouldn't all fall to Herts CC as it's not fully within their area. but it still wouldn't reach Potters Bar Gets as far as, what, Hadley Wood and then back to New Barnet. Hardly seems worth it.
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 19:41:31 GMT
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Post by Busboy105 on Feb 2, 2022 19:41:31 GMT
but it still wouldn't reach Potters Bar Gets as far as, what, Hadley Wood and then back to New Barnet. Hardly seems worth it. If TFL do step in to help the 84, they should at least let it terminate at Potters Bar. Considering they have the 298 and the 313 terminating there it's a no brainer
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 2, 2022 20:11:05 GMT
Gets as far as, what, Hadley Wood and then back to New Barnet. Hardly seems worth it. If TFL do step in to help the 84, they should at least let it terminate at Potters Bar. Considering they have the 298 and the 313 terminating there it's a no brainer why? It's outside of TfLs area. If not enough people are using it to keep it profitable for Metroline why should TfL run the service?
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Post by uakari on Feb 2, 2022 20:54:07 GMT
If TFL do step in to help the 84, they should at least let it terminate at Potters Bar. Considering they have the 298 and the 313 terminating there it's a no brainer why? It's outside of TfLs area. If not enough people are using it to keep it profitable for Metroline why should TfL run the service? Because people living in Barnet need to get to Potters Bar. Just because they live closer to the border doesn't mean they shouldn't expect the same service provision to all their surrounding towns as people further towards the centre have. They pay just the same amount of GLA tax, have already been effectively paying twice if they have a travelcard, and pay more for travelcards than people further towards the centre already. London is not an island. Potters Bar isn't 'outside their area' when it comes to the 298 and the 313, which I doubt would generate any more profit for TfL than running a bus from Barnet.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 2, 2022 21:07:24 GMT
why? It's outside of TfLs area. If not enough people are using it to keep it profitable for Metroline why should TfL run the service? Because people living in Barnet need to get to Potters Bar. Just because they live closer to the border doesn't mean they shouldn't expect the same service provision to all their surrounding towns as people further towards the centre have. They pay just the same amount of GLA tax, have already been effectively paying twice if they have a travelcard, and pay more for travelcards than people further towards the centre already. London is not an island. Potters Bar isn't 'outside their area' when it comes to the 298 and the 313, which I doubt would generate any more profit for TfL than running a bus from Barnet. There is a train that takes 6 minutes between New Barnet and Potters Bar, just take that it is bothers you so much. As many have said if the commercial service has such low passenger numbers that it is not viable why would TfL take the risk when it is effectively outside their operating area and the county are not willing to support the service. We have seen numerous retrenchment to border services with more likely as surrounding counties are squeezed further on bus services.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 2, 2022 21:18:40 GMT
why? It's outside of TfLs area. If not enough people are using it to keep it profitable for Metroline why should TfL run the service? Because people living in Barnet need to get to Potters Bar. Just because they live closer to the border doesn't mean they shouldn't expect the same service provision to all their surrounding towns as people further towards the centre have. They pay just the same amount of GLA tax, have already been effectively paying twice if they have a travelcard, and pay more for travelcards than people further towards the centre already. London is not an island. Potters Bar isn't 'outside their area' when it comes to the 298 and the 313, which I doubt would generate any more profit for TfL than running a bus from Barnet. If there was enough people wanting to get from Barnet to Potters Bar there wouldn't be a need for Metroline to "potentially" withdraw the 84 completely
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Uno
Feb 2, 2022 21:25:28 GMT
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Post by uakari on Feb 2, 2022 21:25:28 GMT
Because people living in Barnet need to get to Potters Bar. Just because they live closer to the border doesn't mean they shouldn't expect the same service provision to all their surrounding towns as people further towards the centre have. They pay just the same amount of GLA tax, have already been effectively paying twice if they have a travelcard, and pay more for travelcards than people further towards the centre already. London is not an island. Potters Bar isn't 'outside their area' when it comes to the 298 and the 313, which I doubt would generate any more profit for TfL than running a bus from Barnet. There is a train that takes 6 minutes between New Barnet and Potters Bar, just take that it is bothers you so much. As many have said if the commercial service has such low passenger numbers that it is not viable why would TfL take the risk when it is effectively outside their operating area and the county are not willing to support the service. We have seen numerous retrenchment to border services with more likely as surrounding counties are squeezed further on bus services. By the time you get from the north of High Barnet to New Barnet station, you could have been in Potters Bar on the 84. It's not a 'risk'; it's a responsibility. Otherwise give people in Barnet money off the GLA tax because they are not getting a comparable service to surrounding areas as other places to (see my comparison with Finchley in the Metroline thread). People are tired of being treated like second class citizens just because they don't live in areas this Mayor is concerned with. Of course Metroline will struggle commercially to run the 84 on the London sections because of the Oyster/Travelcard system - why should people pay twice? TfL should never have been allowed to get away with defunding it in the first place. I despise them.
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Post by ianhardy on Feb 2, 2022 21:27:24 GMT
why? It's outside of TfLs area. If not enough people are using it to keep it profitable for Metroline why should TfL run the service? Because people living in Barnet need to get to Potters Bar. Just because they live closer to the border doesn't mean they shouldn't expect the same service provision to all their surrounding towns as people further towards the centre have. They pay just the same amount of GLA tax, have already been effectively paying twice if they have a travelcard, and pay more for travelcards than people further towards the centre already. London is not an island. Potters Bar isn't 'outside their area' when it comes to the 298 and the 313, which I doubt would generate any more profit for TfL than running a bus from Barnet. There is a difference as the boundary of London on the 298 & 313 is just south of the M25 Junction 24 roundabout so it is logical that those routes run over the border into Hertfordshire and to Potters Bar Station.
Whereas the boundary of London on the 84 is only 1 mile north of Barnet Church so there is a lot of non-London to serve between Monken Hadley and Potters Bar. The section of route between New Barnet Station and Barnet Church is covered by other Tfl routes. Between Barnet Church and Monken Hadley the 399 covers that bit so TFL covers the whole of route 84 within Greater London. Hertfordshire County Council should pay for the 84 as it is mainly in their area, especially considering the financial situation that TfL is in, there are far more important things within Greater London that need funding rather then the 84.
Also there is a train service from New Barnet to Potters Bar, which there isn't from Cockfosters or Enfield.
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