52000
Conductor
Posts: 140
|
Post by 52000 on Feb 17, 2013 8:57:55 GMT
And the thing with Thameslink is that First Capital Connect is one of the worst in the country. Unclean, late running, delays etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Feb 17, 2013 19:46:20 GMT
Having spent the best part of three hours today trying to get from Croydon to Enfield I would say these cross-London links are desperately needed. I could have flown to Tenerife in the same time!
|
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Feb 17, 2013 19:48:03 GMT
And the thing with Thameslink is that First Capital Connect is one of the worst in the country. Unclean, late running, delays etc. I couldn't agree more. The fact that it serves two international airports is quite frankly a disgrace- what a welcome to England! They should have given the franchise to Southern years ago. At least then we'd have some nice 377's running on it, and 319's cascaded to less high-profile routes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 20:18:02 GMT
And the thing with Thameslink is that First Capital Connect is one of the worst in the country. Unclean, late running, delays etc. I couldn't agree more. The fact that it serves two international airports is quite frankly a disgrace- what a welcome to England! They should have given the franchise to Southern years ago. At least then we'd have some nice 377's running on it, and 319's cascaded to less high-profile routes. Agreed. Terrible operator. |
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Feb 17, 2013 20:28:52 GMT
I couldn't agree more. The fact that it serves two international airports is quite frankly a disgrace- what a welcome to England! They should have given the franchise to Southern years ago. At least then we'd have some nice 377's running on it, and 319's cascaded to less high-profile routes. Agreed. Terrible operator. I just hope to god that First don't win the Southern franchise, and undo all the good work Govia have done over the last few years. I have such a sad, sinking feeling that they might though- they are definitely the lowest common denominator  |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Feb 17, 2013 21:52:01 GMT
And the thing with Thameslink is that First Capital Connect is one of the worst in the country. Unclean, late running, delays etc. I couldn't agree more. The fact that it serves two international airports is quite frankly a disgrace- what a welcome to England! They should have given the franchise to Southern years ago. At least then we'd have some nice 377's running on it, and 319's cascaded to less high-profile routes. I agree FCC on Thameslink are dreadful. They seem to do a better job with the Great Northern route which is bizarre given they are all part of the same franchise. I think the comparison with Southern is a bit unfair as the terms of the franchises and the funding are different. The government seem to have used Southern as their "train buying TOC" for some reason which has meant a far greater proportion of new trains on that franchise than elsewhere. Part of this has been, ironically, to support the phased work on Thameslink. Southern has had the benefit of extra TfL funding for staffing and extra frequencies on Metro services. It has also absorbed Gatwick Express removing an interface with another operator. All this gives a more "generous" feel to the franchise. There also isn't much major engineering work going on. FCC have had to contend with years of disruption on the Thameslink route and that is set to continue for many more years. I think the problem with Thameslink is that it is not one thing or the other. Southern have distinct service groups which are either local, Metro, longer distance and Gatwick Express. The Thameslink services are a mix of service types all on one route - local, Metro and longer distance all with the same trains often within one journey! This means the trains are a compromise as is the service offering. What is not yet clear is what the heck the government actually wants the Thameslink franchise to do. It will seemingly still be a mix of local, Metro and longer distance with an uniform fleet of new Siemens trains. It will be multi branched, roping in the Great Northern line, and probably very difficult to operate reliably. If the government goes for a "bargain basement" or "high premium" bid then I suspect the future franchise will continue to be dire for a long time. FCC is the only TOC in the country that is genuinely profitable in that it covers all costs including track access grant by paying a huge premium to the DfT (source in Dft numbers / Modern Railways). You can perhaps deduce that to do that it has to cut costs to the bone and push fares up. Perhaps we would prefer a subsidised FCC in the future? |
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Feb 17, 2013 22:20:25 GMT
I couldn't agree more. The fact that it serves two international airports is quite frankly a disgrace- what a welcome to England! They should have given the franchise to Southern years ago. At least then we'd have some nice 377's running on it, and 319's cascaded to less high-profile routes. I agree FCC on Thameslink are dreadful. They seem to do a better job with the Great Northern route which is bizarre given they are all part of the same franchise. I think the comparison with Southern is a bit unfair as the terms of the franchises and the funding are different. The government seem to have used Southern as their "train buying TOC" for some reason which has meant a far greater proportion of new trains on that franchise than elsewhere. Part of this has been, ironically, to support the phased work on Thameslink. Southern has had the benefit of extra TfL funding for staffing and extra frequencies on Metro services. It has also absorbed Gatwick Express removing an interface with another operator. All this gives a more "generous" feel to the franchise. There also isn't much major engineering work going on. FCC have had to contend with years of disruption on the Thameslink route and that is set to continue for many more years. I think the problem with Thameslink is that it is not one thing or the other. Southern have distinct service groups which are either local, Metro, longer distance and Gatwick Express. The Thameslink services are a mix of service types all on one route - local, Metro and longer distance all with the same trains often within one journey! This means the trains are a compromise as is the service offering. What is not yet clear is what the heck the government actually wants the Thameslink franchise to do. It will seemingly still be a mix of local, Metro and longer distance with an uniform fleet of new Siemens trains. It will be multi branched, roping in the Great Northern line, and probably very difficult to operate reliably. If the government goes for a "bargain basement" or "high premium" bid then I suspect the future franchise will continue to be dire for a long time. FCC is the only TOC in the country that is genuinely profitable in that it covers all costs including track access grant by paying a huge premium to the DfT (source in Dft numbers / Modern Railways). You can perhaps deduce that to do that it has to cut costs to the bone and push fares up. Perhaps we would prefer a subsidised FCC in the future? Agreed, Southern does seem to get a lot funding for new trains, stations refurbs etc. However, I don't know what stops FCC (Thameslink) from cleaning their trains or keeping them in anything approaching a presentable condition. Your last point is interesting, obviously we'd all like to have the best of both worlds. Maybe instead of paying the DfT, they could directly re-invest the profit into the service, but it does seem that goes against the grain of the whole franchising system! |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Feb 18, 2013 0:01:59 GMT
Agreed, Southern does seem to get a lot funding for new trains, stations refurbs etc. However, I don't know what stops FCC (Thameslink) from cleaning their trains or keeping them in anything approaching a presentable condition. Your last point is interesting, obviously we'd all like to have the best of both worlds. Maybe instead of paying the DfT, they could directly re-invest the profit into the service, but it does seem that goes against the grain of the whole franchising system! I think FCC don't bother because there is no financial consequence for them. The trains are jammed full in the peaks and I wonder if FCC are hugely bothered about off peak travel - people north of St Pancras have no alternative and even south of the Thames some stations on the Brighton line have a majority FCC presence. I also suspect, but don't know, that things like cleanliness, presentation and lack of graffiti are either not a franchise performance measure or have next to no impact on payments. First have clearly decided that screwing every last ounce of money out of the franchise is the imperative - both to pay the DfT the premium and to make some money themselves. This cost minimisation ethos is the same as was evident under the Moir Lockhead era for the bus business. A rail franchise tends to "lock in" the behaviour so no scope for change and the impending retender gives zero incentive for First to throw any money at the franchise. The rolling stock will go elsewhere in due course and it is doubtful if the current franchisee will incur any costs in getting them into acceptable shape to go back to the ROSCO before going elsewhere. In other words it someone else's problem. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 18, 2013 3:19:00 GMT
Agree with the comments that First are awful with Thameslink. I've rather be pushed along the Thameslink tracks in a shopping trolley!
|
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Feb 18, 2013 14:29:09 GMT
Agree with the comments that First are awful with Thameslink. I've rather be pushed along the Thameslink tracks in a shopping trolley! And yet First do an excellent job with Trans-Pennine Express. With FCC, if I can go by Southern, I'll travel Southern every time. Occasionally the only way I'll get to Croydon on time is by FCC. Then my heart sinks... |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 18, 2013 14:37:33 GMT
Agree with the comments that First are awful with Thameslink. I've rather be pushed along the Thameslink tracks in a shopping trolley! And yet First do an excellent job with Trans-Pennine Express. With FCC, if I can go by Southern, I'll travel Southern every time. Occasionally the only way I'll get to Croydon on time is by FCC. Then my heart sinks... Indeed, I can't fault Southern, only ever had one train late in all the times I've used them. |
|
52000
Conductor
Posts: 140
|
Post by 52000 on Feb 18, 2013 15:09:54 GMT
Well, the Great Northern route is bad, but not as bad as Thameslink. There was a packed fast service to Cambridge, yet a 8 car nearly empty stopper.
|
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Feb 21, 2013 19:38:32 GMT
Agreed, Southern does seem to get a lot funding for new trains, stations refurbs etc. However, I don't know what stops FCC (Thameslink) from cleaning their trains or keeping them in anything approaching a presentable condition. Your last point is interesting, obviously we'd all like to have the best of both worlds. Maybe instead of paying the DfT, they could directly re-invest the profit into the service, but it does seem that goes against the grain of the whole franchising system! I think FCC don't bother because there is no financial consequence for them. The trains are jammed full in the peaks and I wonder if FCC are hugely bothered about off peak travel - people north of St Pancras have no alternative and even south of the Thames some stations on the Brighton line have a majority FCC presence. I also suspect, but don't know, that things like cleanliness, presentation and lack of graffiti are either not a franchise performance measure or have next to no impact on payments. First have clearly decided that screwing every last ounce of money out of the franchise is the imperative - both to pay the DfT the premium and to make some money themselves. This cost minimisation ethos is the same as was evident under the Moir Lockhead era for the bus business. A rail franchise tends to "lock in" the behaviour so no scope for change and the impending retender gives zero incentive for First to throw any money at the franchise. The rolling stock will go elsewhere in due course and it is doubtful if the current franchisee will incur any costs in getting them into acceptable shape to go back to the ROSCO before going elsewhere. In other words it someone else's problem. Sad but true! Until the franchise system changes, the above will continue on, and screw the passengers. Now let's see, what is public transport for? Making money for companies like First of course!  |
|
|
|
Post by snowman on May 14, 2013 8:27:45 GMT
I gather there is going to be some form of Business push to move to consultation on Crossrail 2 at Wimbledon involving Boris today
|
|
|
|
Post by LX09FBJ on May 14, 2013 15:08:30 GMT
The Thameslink desperately needs more money put into operational costs, and indeed I think Worst need to be stripped of their franchise. I remember one carriage being out of use for no apparent reason  I think Crossrail 2 is a good idea, as the Kingston line (as opposed to Surbiton) services are quite poor, so a boost there would be useful for commuters. My view: Shepperton Branch-stay at 2tph plus peaks via Richmond (there's a level crossing (just down my road) in Hampton, on a fairly busy main route. Kingston via Richmond loop-increase to 3tph in each direction, plus 3tph as Crossrail, creating 8tph via Wimbledon, and 3tph via Richmond I'm not sure about the performance of the 455s and whether or not they can be modified to go faster. |
|
