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Post by redexpress on Feb 26, 2021 6:35:06 GMT
Tower Transit have a habit of ordering the cheapest option they can which will probably explain the costs. BYD equipment is also very cumbersome and more expensive to install as opposed to Optare equipment as the Optare equipment is effectively a mainline connection while BYD connections have a separate power supply. Optare buses have the power supply built into the bus. This may explain the vast array of vehicles that TT has ordered in the past: from DMVs to WVs, VHs to MVs to WHs. I think TT is much more price conscious rather than prioritising fleet uniformity. We've seen most operators sticking to certain models and changing at the last resort, e.g. Metroline ordering E200s and VWHs (except for the 332's TEHs), until they opted for VMHs due to Wright's bodywork issues. RATP ordering E200s across their operations and LU sticking to VHs with LS sticking to ADHs, Stagecoach with E200/400s I don't think TT are any more price conscious than anyone else - every private operator is price conscious, they wouldn't be doing their job otherwise! It is probably down to the size of the company. Bigger operators / groups have the buying power to negotiate bulk discounts from manufacturers. You will get a much better price if you're buying 100+ buses over 3 years than if you're buying each batch of 15-20 buses individually.
Unfortunately for TT they are not quite big enough to place such large orders, so each time they need new buses they go back to the market and see what the best deal is - which is how they end up with different types each time.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 2, 2021 11:06:20 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 2, 2021 12:11:33 GMT
Bu that does not paint the full picture, by saying oil consumed vs a battery been made and replaced is a bit dubious. They need to show all components used in the vehicle. Of course this report would stack in favour of electric vehicles as it was a report done by them. Bit of a non story really. It is as bad as a report by a oil manufacturer claiming how green their oil is. I would rather an independent report than that.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 4, 2021 10:27:08 GMT
Bu that does not paint the full picture, by saying oil consumed vs a battery been made and replaced is a bit dubious. They need to show all components used in the vehicle. Of course this report would stack in favour of electric vehicles as it was a report done by them. Bit of a non story really. It is as bad as a report by a oil manufacturer claiming how green their oil is. I would rather an independent report than that. I would expect an independent report to come to a similar conclusion. The point being made here is that the concern with the manufacture of batteries for electric vehicles centres on the resources used - but the environmental impact of fuel extraction for internal combustion engines is not taken into account when making comparisons. Also the components of life-expired batteries can be recycled and reused - once fuel oil is consumed, it is gone.
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Post by sp17 on Mar 5, 2021 1:11:30 GMT
Might be worth noting that the early President and Volvo combination was not received well among operators and after further development became a very successful bus.
ADL or NFI are smart, they partner with the right people e.g. Scania, BYD, Cummins, BAE, which boosts potential for orders. I have slated Optare in the past but their buses are generally better to drive than ADL and so are their light and airy interiors. BYD have umpteen amounts of experience building electric buses whereas Optare have started from scratch. To compare the OMEs with the BDEs is like comparing a prototype to an already established model.
All these issues being spoken about that Optare have are purely nonsensical. Do you really think they would be building electric vehicles without the scope for orders on the horizon? They’re not as big a business as ADL so it’s an unfair comparison. I’m happy to see them landing on their feet and I reckon we will see many more Metrodrcker EVs around.
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Post by cc2005 on Mar 5, 2021 8:07:18 GMT
How were Optare able to get their Metrodecker authorised for service with TfL without upper deck air cooling? - unless it's hidden somewhere
I thought that air-cooling system was part of the TfL spec? Every DD in recent years has had air cooling units and vents fitted
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 5, 2021 23:58:09 GMT
How were Optare able to get their Metrodecker authorised for service with TfL without upper deck air cooling? - unless it's hidden somewhere I thought that air-cooling system was part of the TfL spec? Every DD in recent years has had air cooling units and vents fitted It does have it, mentioned in the brochure. Fully automatic integrated heating and air conditioning system with
thermostatically controlled blown heating, venting and upper saloon
chilling system
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 6, 2021 0:33:13 GMT
How were Optare able to get their Metrodecker authorised for service with TfL without upper deck air cooling? - unless it's hidden somewhere I thought that air-cooling system was part of the TfL spec? Every DD in recent years has had air cooling units and vents fitted It does have it, mentioned in the brochure. Fully automatic integrated heating and air conditioning system with
thermostatically controlled blown heating, venting and upper saloon
chilling systemI think it should be mentioned that Optare as a company are quite innovative. Even going back to early days they adopted Hybrids relatively early and even looking at EVs I believe the electric MetroDecker was available before the BYD decker electric chassis was announced at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they've managed to install a cooling system without the huge box above the stairs. Even just looking at the MetroDecker EV, the batteries are extremely well hidden. The available area for passengers goes right up until the back, whereas the BYDs have to have a huge area sectioned off in order to be able to fit the batteries in. The issue they have is that they innovate, but then either give up extremely early or just don't do it to a good standard which is what causes the rest of their problems. While the batteries are well hidden, it's no secret they have range issues for example.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Mar 6, 2021 6:43:52 GMT
I'll be honest I used to be a Conservative supporter but I'm sick and tired of all the nonsense Bailey comes out with! Going back I had trust in him as I dislike Khan but it's like he is making false promises just to receive votes. It would not be shocking if the "2030" Zero Emission target isn't met either. As I said before route 202 for example has just got Hybrid buses recently and it would be a waste of money to decommissioned them before there time is up. My opinion only. 2035 is a much more realistic goal for zero emission as then all the stock ordered in 2020 that was hybrid can do 3 contracts without any extensions and it'd be a much more realistic goal for being zero emissions. It is indeed more realistic, and not just for vehicle replacements in London. Operators will also need to replace vehicles elsewhere in the country and could struggle if most factory resources are taken up building so many buses just for London.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 6, 2021 17:55:29 GMT
First has ordered 22 11.6m B40F BYD/ADL Enviro200EV MMCs which will operate from its state-of-the-art Caledonia Depot in Glasgow. The vehicles are part-funded by the Scottish Government and will enter service ahead of the COP26 United Nations’ Climate Change conference which is being held in the city.
Caledonia Depot already has electric charging facilities and two electric E200s entered service from there in 2020.
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Post by snowman on Mar 22, 2021 16:15:46 GMT
Seems that BYD-ADL is booming with electric bus orders
In addition to the batch for GoAhead and pair for CT plus due soon
I gather now have orders from Stagecoach (25) Abellio (29) Arriva (22) RATP are rumoured to have nearly 200 on order
Outside London, there are 22 for First Glasgow, and some for McGills Another 172 electric buses for Scotland announced today (to be built Falkirk)
First Leeds has ordered 5 electric E400s Coventry is rumoured to have signed off 150+ (with many to be ready ahead of Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games)
Not pure electric, but there are 180 E400MMCs virtual electric for Ireland
So adding in diesel buses, and probable unannounced orders, I suspect ADL order book is back over 1000 buses
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Post by TB123 on Mar 22, 2021 16:30:32 GMT
Seems that BYD-ADL is booming with electric bus orders In addition to the batch for GoAhead and pair for CT plus due soon I gather now have orders from Stagecoach (25) Abellio (29) Arriva (22) RATP are rumoured to have nearly 200 on order Outside London, there are 22 for First Glasgow, and some for McGills Another 172 electric buses for Scotland announced today (to be built Falkirk) First Leeds has ordered 5 electric E400s Coventry is rumoured to have signed off 150+ (with many to be ready ahead of Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games) Not pure electric, but there are 180 E400MMCs virtual electric for Ireland So adding in diesel buses, and probable unannounced orders, I suspect ADL order book is back over 1000 buses Another 126 ADL/BYD electrics for First Glasgow, 91 doubles and 35 singles. 22 E400EVs for Stagecoach bluebird, and 24 E200EVs for Stagecoach East and West Scotland
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Post by dashing0ne on Mar 22, 2021 19:31:14 GMT
Seems that BYD-ADL is booming with electric bus orders In addition to the batch for GoAhead and pair for CT plus due soon I gather now have orders from Stagecoach (25) Abellio (29) Arriva (22) RATP are rumoured to have nearly 200 on order Outside London, there are 22 for First Glasgow, and some for McGills Another 172 electric buses for Scotland announced today (to be built Falkirk) First Leeds has ordered 5 electric E400s Coventry is rumoured to have signed off 150+ (with many to be ready ahead of Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games) Not pure electric, but there are 180 E400MMCs virtual electric for Ireland So adding in diesel buses, and probable unannounced orders, I suspect ADL order book is back over 1000 buses And many more orders yet to come, I wonder if ADL will introduce 9.0m bodies for BYD.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 22, 2021 19:51:08 GMT
Seems that BYD-ADL is booming with electric bus orders In addition to the batch for GoAhead and pair for CT plus due soon I gather now have orders from Stagecoach (25) Abellio (29) Arriva (22) RATP are rumoured to have nearly 200 on order Outside London, there are 22 for First Glasgow, and some for McGills Another 172 electric buses for Scotland announced today (to be built Falkirk) First Leeds has ordered 5 electric E400s Coventry is rumoured to have signed off 150+ (with many to be ready ahead of Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games) Not pure electric, but there are 180 E400MMCs virtual electric for Ireland So adding in diesel buses, and probable unannounced orders, I suspect ADL order book is back over 1000 buses Another 126 ADL/BYD electrics for First Glasgow, 91 doubles and 35 singles. 22 E400EVs for Stagecoach bluebird, and 24 E200EVs for Stagecoach East and West Scotland I believe they also have Hydrogen Fuel Cell EVs on order for Liverpool too. I think it just shows that if you build what the market wants, when it wants it then you can be in with a serious chance of making money. Only issue now is if you're the only company which does that and you end up monopolising the market. Does anyone know what happened to Volvos electric bus?
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Post by busoccultation on Mar 24, 2021 15:20:52 GMT
Surprisingly ADL doesn't metion about pantograph charging option on a E200EV as that would have been useful for the 358 with its long duties in mileage terms.
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