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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 14, 2013 22:18:16 GMT
The best bet would be the 44 and 77 from Tooting, or the 14/22/74/170 from the Putney area. Additionally, the 33, 237 and 267 serve Zone 2, the 190 (desperately in need a frequency increase and double decking) and the 391 (stupidly retained with single deckers) touch the Zone 1 border I also questioned why the 391 was retained with single-deckers, as when I've occasionally used the route it's been packed! I suggested that it was probably only because they wanted to trial the Metrocity on there, but then I got shouted down for having an opinion on a route not near me  Considering the 391 appears to be quite a trunk route, I don't see why a decker would go amiss anyway even if they're "unnecessary" as was suggested. The 391 runs parallel with District Line between Richmond and Hammersmith, so it acts as a 'rail replacement' if you like when it's shut for engineering works. Generally all buses can run empty during off peak times (say between 10am and 1pm) Sometimes I see 111s empty. The biggest problems come (with the vast majority routes) between 7am and 8:30am (schoolkids and commuters), then between 3pm and 6:30pm (first schoolkids then commuters). In the old days the R70 (which serves an five schools) had two or three decker workings in the morinings, but these were scrapped when the Olympians left normal service duties. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 22:28:15 GMT
I also questioned why the 391 was retained with single-deckers, as when I've occasionally used the route it's been packed! I suggested that it was probably only because they wanted to trial the Metrocity on there, but then I got shouted down for having an opinion on a route not near me Considering the 391 appears to be quite a trunk route, I don't see why a decker would go amiss anyway even if they're "unnecessary" as was suggested. The 391 runs parallel with District Line between Richmond and Hammersmith, so it acts as a 'rail replacement' if you like when it's shut for engineering works. Generally all buses can run empty during off peak times (say between 10am and 1pm) Sometimes I see 111s empty. The biggest problems come (with the vast majority routes) between 7am and 8:30am (schoolkids and commuters), then between 3pm and 6:30pm (first schoolkids then commuters). In the old days the R70 (which serves an five schools) had two or three decker workings in the morinings, but these were scrapped when the Olympians left normal service duties. The latter discussion about when routes get the most loadings certainly sounds about right. A lot of decker routes carry nobody during the off-peaks (except maybe the 25, 73, 188, 205 as some notable exceptions) but I'm not sure that means decker operation is unjustified, after all, it's "off-peak" for a reason really, the peak loadings on weekdays and Saturday shopping loadings should be the main considerations. If the 391 is busy in the peaks, then I don't see why it shouldn't get deckers, really. If we got worked up about off-peak light loadings on all routes then probably very few would be operated by deckers! |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 14, 2013 23:19:06 GMT
The 391 runs parallel with District Line between Richmond and Hammersmith, so it acts as a 'rail replacement' if you like when it's shut for engineering works. Generally all buses can run empty during off peak times (say between 10am and 1pm) Sometimes I see 111s empty. The biggest problems come (with the vast majority routes) between 7am and 8:30am (schoolkids and commuters), then between 3pm and 6:30pm (first schoolkids then commuters). In the old days the R70 (which serves an five schools) had two or three decker workings in the morinings, but these were scrapped when the Olympians left normal service duties. The latter discussion about when routes get the most loadings certainly sounds about right. A lot of decker routes carry nobody during the off-peaks (except maybe the 25, 73, 188, 205 as some notable exceptions) but I'm not sure that means decker operation is unjustified, after all, it's "off-peak" for a reason really, the peak loadings on weekdays and Saturday shopping loadings should be the main considerations. If the 391 is busy in the peaks, then I don't see why it shouldn't get deckers, really. If we got worked up about off-peak light loadings on all routes then probably very few would be operated by deckers! After all, the 111 is the longest, scheduled double deck service in London (the 358 at the same length is OmniCity single deck and the X26 is an express with Citaros), with an end-to-end running time of 60-70 minutes. Therefore, it would just be unreliable to convert it so single decker for only a few runs, plus the chaos at garages as well, especially if they're 100% double deck. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 23:24:10 GMT
The latter discussion about when routes get the most loadings certainly sounds about right. A lot of decker routes carry nobody during the off-peaks (except maybe the 25, 73, 188, 205 as some notable exceptions) but I'm not sure that means decker operation is unjustified, after all, it's "off-peak" for a reason really, the peak loadings on weekdays and Saturday shopping loadings should be the main considerations. If the 391 is busy in the peaks, then I don't see why it shouldn't get deckers, really. If we got worked up about off-peak light loadings on all routes then probably very few would be operated by deckers! After all, the 111 is the longest, scheduled double deck service in London (the 358 at the same length is OmniCity single deck and the X26 is an express with Citaros), with an end-to-end running time of 60-70 minutes. Therefore, it would just be unreliable to convert it so single decker for only a few runs, plus the chaos at garages as well, especially if they're 100% double deck. Just to point out, the 111 is nowhere near the longest scheduled double-deck service if it's only 60-70mins. Had always thought that honour belonged to the 25, which has an end to end running time of around 110 minutes on some peak trips. Other examples are the 27 (80 mins), 208 (75 minutes), 197 (75 minutes) etc. I agree it would be silly to hold a dual allocation for peak and off-peak, though. Not worth it - if the peak demand is there, a conversion is worthwhile, whether it's thin air in the middle of the day or not. The thing with scheduled decker workings is that on higher PVR routes they're a drop in a low-capacity ocean - the majority of the time for passengers it will probably still be the single decker turning up. EDIT: Just looked at the peak running times of the 111, longest journeys are approx 90 minutes so certainly one of the longest. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 1:35:44 GMT
And what are you trying to achieve my doing this? save bit of money on the contracts  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2013 21:12:07 GMT
I understood that Route 375 was a Shoppers Bus & part of the Commercial Fleet. Cant see how it could be combined with the 498..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2013 21:17:08 GMT
LOTS have both these route changes down to take effect from April 27th 2013.
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Post by greeny253 on Mar 24, 2013 22:31:56 GMT
I understood that Route 375 was a Shoppers Bus & part of the Commercial Fleet. Cant see how it could be combined with the 498.. I've never really had high opinions of the 375. Put in place by TfL because there'd be no link to Romford following Arriva pulling the 500 and I don't think I've ever seen it busy let alone with anyone on it past Collier Row/Chase Cross. Frankly given that the busy 374 was cut yet the 375 still runs around carrying fresh air kinda stinks. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 24, 2013 22:52:35 GMT
I understood that Route 375 was a Shoppers Bus & part of the Commercial Fleet. Cant see how it could be combined with the 498.. I think you are thinking of the 575 which does, of course, run over part of the 375 into Romford. the 575 is commercially operated by Go Ahead. The 375 is a TfL route. Given the 575 runs only slightly fewer jnys than the 375 then TfL could happily leave the 575 to provide the service. It is quite interesting how under Boris the inner boroughs are having their services cut to provide better services in the (Tory) outer boroughs. Hackney - 242 frequency cut, 106 to be cut, 38 cut, N236 cut. Sutton - S1 improved, 498 improved, 499 improved, B12 improved. I don't begrudge the outer areas getting better services. I just don't see why inner London has to have the cuts or other places have zero improvements to pay for it. There is another campaign about the 343 and more buses and yet there is "no money" for Peckham residents. Even more ironically the B12, S1 and 498 changes give improvements to people who are not even London residents! Do people in Joydens Wood, Brentwood and Banstead vote for Boris?   |
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Post by jay38a on Mar 24, 2013 23:20:43 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 24, 2013 23:42:32 GMT
I understood that Route 375 was a Shoppers Bus & part of the Commercial Fleet. Cant see how it could be combined with the 498.. I think you are thinking of the 575 which does, of course, run over part of the 375 into Romford. the 575 is commercially operated by Go Ahead. The 375 is a TfL route. Given the 575 runs only slightly fewer jnys than the 375 then TfL could happily leave the 575 to provide the service. It is quite interesting how under Boris the inner boroughs are having their services cut to provide better services in the (Tory) outer boroughs. Hackney - 242 frequency cut, 106 to be cut, 38 cut, N236 cut. Sutton - S1 improved, 498 improved, 499 improved, B12 improved. I don't begrudge the outer areas getting better services. I just don't see why inner London has to have the cuts or other places have zero improvements to pay for it. There is another campaign about the 343 and more buses and yet there is "no money" for Peckham residents. Even more ironically the B12, S1 and 498 changes give improvements to people who are not even London residents! Do people in Joydens Wood, Brentwood and Banstead vote for Boris? When did/are Boris/TFL improving the S1 bus? Its been the same for years with only a vehicle change in 2007. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 25, 2013 0:33:11 GMT
I think you are thinking of the 575 which does, of course, run over part of the 375 into Romford. the 575 is commercially operated by Go Ahead. The 375 is a TfL route. Given the 575 runs only slightly fewer jnys than the 375 then TfL could happily leave the 575 to provide the service. It is quite interesting how under Boris the inner boroughs are having their services cut to provide better services in the (Tory) outer boroughs. Hackney - 242 frequency cut, 106 to be cut, 38 cut, N236 cut. Sutton - S1 improved, 498 improved, 499 improved, B12 improved. I don't begrudge the outer areas getting better services. I just don't see why inner London has to have the cuts or other places have zero improvements to pay for it. There is another campaign about the 343 and more buses and yet there is "no money" for Peckham residents. Even more ironically the B12, S1 and 498 changes give improvements to people who are not even London residents! Do people in Joydens Wood, Brentwood and Banstead vote for Boris? When did/are Boris/TFL improving the S1 bus? Its been the same for years with only a vehicle change in 2007. There is currently a consultation out on the S1 for a frequency & PVR increase to accommodate an extension to the Lavender Fields area via Holborn Way, London Road & Victoria Road. The Fair Green to Cricketers section will be withdrawn. It will stand on Victoria Road at the roundabout junction with Longfield Drive & Fairfield Close. A bus stop on either side will be provided between Taylor Road & Friday Road. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/https-consultations-tfl-gov-uk-buses-route-s1 |
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Post by john on Mar 25, 2013 17:03:14 GMT
I understood that Route 375 was a Shoppers Bus & part of the Commercial Fleet. Cant see how it could be combined with the 498.. I've never really had high opinions of the 375. Put in place by TfL because there'd be no link to Romford following Arriva pulling the 500 and I don't think I've ever seen it busy let alone with anyone on it past Collier Row/Chase Cross. Frankly given that the busy 374 was cut yet the 375 still runs around carrying fresh air kinda stinks. Still annoys me now!! Anyway, the reason the 498 and 499 have had improvements is because they have needed them desperately in my eyes. The 498 has struggled with capacity issues for the past few years now so certainly needed the increased capacity. The link to Queen's, seeing as Brentwood residents either use Basildon or Queen's, the extension is actually quite a good move too. The 499 has always needed improvements from day one. It's basically just getting to the right level that is needed from it. The deviation by Queen's, again, probably the right move considering the large levels of pensioners that use the route. I agree the fact that the constituencies over this way are mainly Tory probably has had a major influence on the improvements, it just goes to show that political influence has a big force on TfL decisions at times. During the Ken years, Romford didn't have has big an improvement. Not saying I'm either Tory or Labour, but it is a much needed improvement to routes. Also, let us not forget that under Mr Livingstone, Romford had the biggest route changes for a good 20 years when the 87 and 374 were withdrawn and replaced alterations to the 174, 294 and 499 while an extended 5 covered the 87. It's swings and roundabouts really. |
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Post by IanF on Mar 31, 2013 19:37:58 GMT
I think you are thinking of the 575 which does, of course, run over part of the 375 into Romford. the 575 is commercially operated by Go Ahead. The 375 is a TfL route. Given the 575 runs only slightly fewer jnys than the 375 then TfL could happily leave the 575 to provide the service. It is quite interesting how under Boris the inner boroughs are having their services cut to provide better services in the (Tory) outer boroughs. Hackney - 242 frequency cut, 106 to be cut, 38 cut, N236 cut. Sutton - S1 improved, 498 improved, 499 improved, B12 improved. I don't begrudge the outer areas getting better services. I just don't see why inner London has to have the cuts or other places have zero improvements to pay for it. There is another campaign about the 343 and more buses and yet there is "no money" for Peckham residents. Even more ironically the B12, S1 and 498 changes give improvements to people who are not even London residents! Do people in Joydens Wood, Brentwood and Banstead vote for Boris? To be fair, the 38 and 106 are not good examples. The 38 had massive over-provision and I've never been on a 38 with a particularly substantial loading - not sure the same could be said for any other ex-bendy routes. The 106 runs largely parallel to the 254 (and to an extent the 253) and the only loadings appear to be on its unique section between Clapton and Finsbury Park. The busiest buses on the 38's were the nb4l's in June/July last year and that was mainly tourists from what I saw so i think they can reduce the pvr further as I always thought they could easily withdraw 20-25% of the buses on route and they still wouldn't be close to full. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 31, 2013 21:07:57 GMT
I think you are thinking of the 575 which does, of course, run over part of the 375 into Romford. the 575 is commercially operated by Go Ahead. The 375 is a TfL route. Given the 575 runs only slightly fewer jnys than the 375 then TfL could happily leave the 575 to provide the service. It is quite interesting how under Boris the inner boroughs are having their services cut to provide better services in the (Tory) outer boroughs. Hackney - 242 frequency cut, 106 to be cut, 38 cut, N236 cut. Sutton - S1 improved, 498 improved, 499 improved, B12 improved. I don't begrudge the outer areas getting better services. I just don't see why inner London has to have the cuts or other places have zero improvements to pay for it. There is another campaign about the 343 and more buses and yet there is "no money" for Peckham residents. Even more ironically the B12, S1 and 498 changes give improvements to people who are not even London residents! Do people in Joydens Wood, Brentwood and Banstead vote for Boris? To be fair, the 38 and 106 are not good examples. The 38 had massive over-provision and I've never been on a 38 with a particularly substantial loading - not sure the same could be said for any other ex-bendy routes. The 106 runs largely parallel to the 254 (and to an extent the 253) and the only loadings appear to be on its unique section between Clapton and Finsbury Park. Not about examples - it is about facts. The routes listed received a reduction and others are receiving an improvement. My point is whether an entirely unbiased process is being followed or whether we are seeing a subtle political slant to the decisions as to where improvements are made. I appreciate we have a resident route 498 user on the group but is that route really deserving of quite so much investment? Are we, or TfL for that matter, really saying there are not more deserving routes in London where there are not more pressing overcrowding issues? There are plenty of examples regularly recited on this group. |
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Considering the 391 appears to be quite a trunk route, I don't see why a decker would go amiss anyway even if they're "unnecessary" as was suggested.
