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Post by westhamgeezer on Apr 9, 2013 15:22:51 GMT
Back in the day... London Transport / London Buses used to have standardised fleet numbers irrespective of which 'district' operated the buses. It's only national operators such as Stagecoach and latterly National Express (Abellio adopted their pattern) that started national codes, and First for their confusing re-classification of vehicles. It used to be easy to follow fleet numbers with the likes of LS, M, etc etc The LT's will at least bring standard class codes to one type of bus, regardless of operator The KMB fleetnumbering system is pretty chaotic too!: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Motor_Bus_fleet_numberingThis is what I am saying, the LT's will bring standard class codes regardless of operator, I think that it would make sense to make it London-wide but thats just my opinion. I also believe that interiors should be of a same standard in all London buses.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 9, 2013 15:24:03 GMT
Wow . That is a lot at one time. It will be weird not seeing First around in my local area. I often jokingly called them "worst" but that's far from the truth Of course it throws up a lot of questions: 1. What effect will there be on the employees? 2. Could some route transfers between garages take place? (Obviously linked to the first question) 3. How could services be affected, especially in the days after the completion of the sale? 4. Greenford's E1, E3 and E10 are coming up for tender soon. What effect, if any, could this sale have on those? 5. When will the sale actually be completed? None have particularly easy answers We have been here many times before with sales and purchases of London Bus businesses. The past tells us that services keep running because that is how the money is made. We also know that if tenders have been submitted by the outgoing company that they will still stand with the new company, unless TfL and the new company agree otherwise. However I think it would be unusual for the bidding process to be "interrupted" just because of a sale. The new company will have done "due diligence" as part of the purchase process and will be aware of what has been bid and why. There is obviously a little uncertainty over dates. Metroline are taking on a lot of garages which is no small task. Tower Transit are new to UK operation so have to go through the necessary motions to establish themselves. There are also the approvals from TfL and any other authorities that might show an interest in the deal. This is where the uncertainty can creep in - it might take days to clear some bits and months for other parts. I don't think there is any reason for any concern about services. It is prudent not to speculate about impacts on staff - any sort of reorganisation like this can be profoundly unsettling.
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Post by cc2005 on Apr 9, 2013 16:22:04 GMT
Interesting scenario; let's say both First and Metroline bid for a route before First exits London, say the 7, if First won, depending on which garage they decide to allocate it to will depend on who operates it.
And if it does go to the soon to be Metroline part of First, haven't Metroline effectively bid bid against themselves?
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Post by jay38a on Apr 9, 2013 18:01:25 GMT
Meanwhile the 25 will be run by a small company from Australia. Like everyone else, I'm hoping they're not ELBG II ELBG were owned by a Bank, but this is a family owned operator, so they actually have experience in operating buses unlike Macquarie, abit not in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 18:42:43 GMT
Well i personally say that 2013 have been a bad year for First London. I am glad the Australians and Metroline saved the routes as well as the workers. I hope to see some Australian built buses to run in London.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 9, 2013 18:59:48 GMT
Well i personally say that 2013 have been a bad year for First London. I am glad the Australians and Metroline saved the routes as well as the workers. I hope to see some Australian built buses to run in London. Given none of them will be to TfL spec I doubt that will happen. In Australia the local companies owned by Transit Systems run Mercedes, Volvo, Scania and Renault single deckers. You should also thank the Singaporeans given Metroline is owned by Comfort Delgro who are based in Singapore.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 9, 2013 19:08:53 GMT
My main thought here was how all those buses will fit into the Metroline fleet system. Could it effectively spell the end of their chronological system? Not a particular fan of this news! Metroline will now essentially run everything bar some small competition from Arriva The Shires and London Sovereign. Meanwhile the 25 will be run by a small company from Australia. Like everyone else, I'm hoping they're not ELBG II I think we need to consider that these deals are still subject to regulatory and TfL approval. It will be interesting to see whether the proposed concentration of Metroline in North West London is considered to be a restriction of competition for tenders. This will all depend on what the OfT / CC deem to be the "market" in London. Is it geographic in bits of London or is it London wide? I can't see an issue for Tower Transit in competition terms. What they do have to do is demonstrate to TfL they are fit to be a supplier to TfL and can also tender for future contracts. I would assume some of this must already have been discussed with TfL to avoid the potential for embarrasment later on.
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 9, 2013 19:22:04 GMT
Does anyone know when the transfer date is?
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Post by IanF on Apr 9, 2013 19:24:43 GMT
Does anyone know when the transfer date is? Once TFL and the competition commission have said that the deal is ok to proceed so that could be 6 weeks to quite a few months.
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Post by wh541 on Apr 9, 2013 19:28:10 GMT
This is an absolute disaster! This is gonna be heart breaking seeing a Metroline banner over 'my' beloved Uxbridge Garage. Of all the companies to sell out to, it had to be to such a crap one as Metroline. In all seriousness, I hope all staffs involved in this sale keep their jobs and that the poor standards (in my opinion) of some Metrolines drivers and vehicle maintenance don't creep into the First fleet and garages. I'm already speculating but I guess could mean the end for the DMC's, to aid fleet standardisation. There's only 21 of these, all of which will be 10yrs old this year(gosh!, time just flies by!) all based at UX, I wonder if there's enough spare MM's knocking around or possibly with a partial DD conversion to the 90 (as david21 mentioned) to be able to oust these. One good thing with this takeover will hopefully be the addition of garage codes and smaller class codes to the First vehicles! Overall though, it's a sad day to see the breakup of Centrewest. First could move the ones over from LI before the sales are approved ;D
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Post by vjaska on Apr 9, 2013 19:44:01 GMT
Well i personally say that 2013 have been a bad year for First London. I am glad the Australians and Metroline saved the routes as well as the workers. I hope to see some Australian built buses to run in London. The routes are not commercial so they were safe anyway. It's not 100% that some staff have secure jobs - for all we all know, Metroline & Tower Transit may have their own staff lined up. I hope not as the First staff in London are very good (haven't experienced the staff outside London).
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Post by Trident on Apr 9, 2013 21:16:57 GMT
Well i personally say that 2013 have been a bad year for First London. I am glad the Australians and Metroline saved the routes as well as the workers. I hope to see some Australian built buses to run in London. Just because its ran from an Australian company it doesnt mean Australian buses will be ordered. ELBG were ran from an Australian bank yet they ordered Omnicities and E200s
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Post by IanF on Apr 9, 2013 21:24:23 GMT
Well i personally say that 2013 have been a bad year for First London. I am glad the Australians and Metroline saved the routes as well as the workers. I hope to see some Australian built buses to run in London. Have you ever tried to get things from Australia to the UK for something small it costs a lot and buses aren't exactly small. I don't think we'll be seeing Aussie buses.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 9, 2013 22:18:30 GMT
Is there any outstanding First London orders as like the sale of Stagecoach London to Macquire Bank in 2006, the outstanding orders will have to go through in whatever spec First ordered them in.
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Post by Hassaan on Apr 9, 2013 22:28:23 GMT
Is there any outstanding First London orders as like the sale of Stagecoach London to Macquire Bank in 2006, the outstanding orders will have to go through in whatever spec First ordered them in. Possibly buses for the 425. There is no decision about DM, but the DN's soon to become spare could have been helpful for Metroline to get old crap out (I.E. VPL's etc ;D)
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