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Post by george on Mar 11, 2020 21:58:33 GMT
Not a LT fan but they could be useful on busy trunk routes such as the 5 especially at peak times at hot spots like Canning Town and Barking Station. The 115 could also be a good place for them!
With front door boarding only I'm not sure if the LTs will actually be any better than any other double decker bus out there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 22:32:44 GMT
Not a LT fan but they could be useful on busy trunk routes such as the 5 especially at peak times at hot spots like Canning Town and Barking Station. The 115 could also be a good place for them!
With front door boarding only I'm not sure if the LTs will actually be any better than any other double decker bus out there. Ha so true totally forgot about the changes for a minute!
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 26, 2020 18:21:14 GMT
If post-Covid there really is a 20% reduction in bus use and TfL finances quite bleak, there could be service reductions and thus quite a few spare LTs. Due to their negligible resale value, they are likely to stay in frontline service in London for some time. So, we could see more LT conversions, a bit like we saw some backdoor conversions to RM on 4.9.82.
So, a few candidates for LT conversion could be 1 or more of routes 2, 13, 18, 25, 52, 63, 133, 139, 188, 243.
Disclaimer: Just as several early conversions did not take account of tender dates, so I am not here either. Also, I do not know beyond a handful of cases which routes have failed an LT test.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 26, 2020 18:51:27 GMT
If post-Covid there really is a 20% reduction in bus use and TfL finances quite bleak, there could be service reductions and thus quite a few spare LTs. Due to their negligible resale value, they are likely to stay in frontline service in London for some time. So, we could see more LT conversions, a bit like we saw some backdoor conversions to RM on 4.9.82. So, a few candidates for LT conversion could be 1 or more of routes 2, 13, 18, 25, 52, 63, 133, 139, 188, 243. Disclaimer: Just as several early conversions did not take account of tender dates, so I am not here either. Also, I do not know beyond a handful of cases which routes have failed an LT test. I would imagine LTs would probably be moved to suburbs now if it is convenient. Routes 332, 32 and 5 have had LTs previously so might be decent places to start.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 3:42:08 GMT
If post-Covid there really is a 20% reduction in bus use and TfL finances quite bleak, there could be service reductions and thus quite a few spare LTs. Due to their negligible resale value, they are likely to stay in frontline service in London for some time. So, we could see more LT conversions, a bit like we saw some backdoor conversions to RM on 4.9.82. So, a few candidates for LT conversion could be 1 or more of routes 2, 13, 18, 25, 52, 63, 133, 139, 188, 243. Disclaimer: Just as several early conversions did not take account of tender dates, so I am not here either. Also, I do not know beyond a handful of cases which routes have failed an LT test. I would imagine LTs would probably be moved to suburbs now if it is convenient. Routes 332, 32 and 5 have had LTs previously so might be decent places to start. It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London?
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Post by snowman on Apr 28, 2020 7:37:27 GMT
I would imagine LTs would probably be moved to suburbs now if it is convenient. Routes 332, 32 and 5 have had LTs previously so might be decent places to start. It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London? TfL (or LT as it then was) has plenty of history to use as a basis : The red arrow network of 1960s cuts when Victoria Line opened The cuts associated with stage 1 of Jubilee Line in 1979 Changes following the various DLR extension openings So the obvious start points for cuts are anything paralleling the enhanced Thameslink service, quickly followed by Whitechapel-Paddington (Elizabeth Line) corridor Split the market into user types: Commuters arriving by train, probably going to drop day or 2 in office, little bus use Shoppers and tourists visiting London. Likely to be much lower for a while Leisure users, also likely to be down Essential workers an cleaners etc. Probably continue but more likely outside main peak hours I suspect there are frequency cuts at times of day, along with some route truncation in Central area that could see third of the LTs become spare. Yes 300 of them. Even those who think I am being savage with cuts would probably agree 100-150 could be cut Where will they go? I would suggest routes out to tender that need new buses anyway, think routes like 281, 183 etc
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 7:43:25 GMT
It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London? TfL (or LT as it then was) has plenty of history to use as a basis : The red arrow network of 1960s cuts when Victoria Line opened The cuts associated with stage 1 of Jubilee Line in 1979 Changes following the various DLR extension openings So the obvious start points for cuts are anything paralleling the enhanced Thameslink service, quickly followed by Whitechapel-Paddington (Elizabeth Line) corridor Split the market into user types: Commuters arriving by train, probably going to drop day or 2 in office, little bus use Shoppers and tourists visiting London. Likely to be much lower for a while Leisure users, also likely to be down Essential workers an cleaners etc. Probably continue but more likely outside main peak hours I suspect there are frequency cuts at times of day, along with some route truncation in Central area that could see third of the LTs become spare. Yes 300 of them. Even those who think I am being savage with cuts would probably agree 100-150 could be cut Where will they go? I would suggest routes out to tender that need new buses anyway, think routes like 281, 183 etc 300 become spare? That is a lot of vehicles. If I recall correctly 1,000 of the type is in operation - so to estimate 300 being made free... Do you have a rough idea of routes at risk of being axed or curtailed? Thanks in advance
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Post by greenboy on Apr 28, 2020 8:19:55 GMT
It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London? TfL (or LT as it then was) has plenty of history to use as a basis : The red arrow network of 1960s cuts when Victoria Line opened The cuts associated with stage 1 of Jubilee Line in 1979 Changes following the various DLR extension openings So the obvious start points for cuts are anything paralleling the enhanced Thameslink service, quickly followed by Whitechapel-Paddington (Elizabeth Line) corridor Split the market into user types: Commuters arriving by train, probably going to drop day or 2 in office, little bus use Shoppers and tourists visiting London. Likely to be much lower for a while Leisure users, also likely to be down Essential workers an cleaners etc. Probably continue but more likely outside main peak hours I suspect there are frequency cuts at times of day, along with some route truncation in Central area that could see third of the LTs become spare. Yes 300 of them. Even those who think I am being savage with cuts would probably agree 100-150 could be cut Where will they go? I would suggest routes out to tender that need new buses anyway, think routes like 281, 183 etc I heard a suggestion that the 148 is likely to get electric routes on retender, there are also suggestions that the 148 could be withdrawn either temporarily or permanently and whatever happens the LT's are likely to be used on the 281. How true that is I wouldn't know but I think you're probably right that a considerable number of them are likely to become spare and it would make sense for TfL to offer them for routes due for retender, the 140 for example. Even with front door only boarding the two doors and staircases will make getting off at Heathrow a lot quicker.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 28, 2020 8:59:51 GMT
I would imagine LTs would probably be moved to suburbs now if it is convenient. Routes 332, 32 and 5 have had LTs previously so might be decent places to start. It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London? I dont think many more could be withdrawn completely. Only really take a route out of the Aldwych/Holborn area and amend others around it to cover (188 diverted via Southwark Park Rd and 1 withdrawn just an option). Maybe the 476 now could go with a couple of extra journeys on the 73 and rest left to the 341. The 349 bar the rush hour could probably be left to the 149 and 279 with maybe some E to Seven Sisters shorts on the 279 at the crucial hour of the day. They could be options but more likely I think freqs will go back up steadily with some keeping their Sunday ones for sometime. Not sure if you X68 will be straight back either.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 10:27:58 GMT
TfL (or LT as it then was) has plenty of history to use as a basis : The red arrow network of 1960s cuts when Victoria Line opened The cuts associated with stage 1 of Jubilee Line in 1979 Changes following the various DLR extension openings So the obvious start points for cuts are anything paralleling the enhanced Thameslink service, quickly followed by Whitechapel-Paddington (Elizabeth Line) corridor Split the market into user types: Commuters arriving by train, probably going to drop day or 2 in office, little bus use Shoppers and tourists visiting London. Likely to be much lower for a while Leisure users, also likely to be down Essential workers an cleaners etc. Probably continue but more likely outside main peak hours I suspect there are frequency cuts at times of day, along with some route truncation in Central area that could see third of the LTs become spare. Yes 300 of them. Even those who think I am being savage with cuts would probably agree 100-150 could be cut Where will they go? I would suggest routes out to tender that need new buses anyway, think routes like 281, 183 etc 300 become spare? That is a lot of vehicles. If I recall correctly 1,000 of the type is in operation - so to estimate 300 being made free... Do you have a rough idea of routes at risk of being axed or curtailed? Thanks in advance It's far too early to know without a crystal ball. We are just coming to the end of the first stage of the pandemic. We could be in the current situation for many weeks yet. Once people rerun to work and TfL have a better understand of travel patterns then changes might be made.
Without a doubt I think we will seem LT buses on other routes in the future when routes are cut/changed or have reduced PVR's. You will probably see them pop up on your local routes in the future
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Post by greenboy on Apr 28, 2020 16:53:28 GMT
It will be a shame if more routes are axed - curtailed. Tfl need to reduce mileage for financial reasons. Can't figure out which other routes - especially in Central London could be axed outright - curtailed? Would there be enough New Routemasters to convert the 5s or other routes in Central London? I dont think many more could be withdrawn completely. Only really take a route out of the Aldwych/Holborn area and amend others around it to cover (188 diverted via Southwark Park Rd and 1 withdrawn just an option). Maybe the 476 now could go with a couple of extra journeys on the 73 and rest left to the 341. The 349 bar the rush hour could probably be left to the 149 and 279 with maybe some E to Seven Sisters shorts on the 279 at the crucial hour of the day. They could be options but more likely I think freqs will go back up steadily with some keeping their Sunday ones for sometime. Not sure if you X68 will be straight back either. No I don't think the X68 will be coming for a while in fact it might not even come back at all. I agree about the 349 and 476. The 148 could be at risk as well, maybe shortened to NHG to Elephant rather than complete withdrawal.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 28, 2020 18:21:40 GMT
The 341 would maintain a link from Northumberland Park and Tottenham to Essex Road and Angel. The only broken link would be to Kings Cross so not terrible to expect a change of Bus at Stoke Newington or Angel. I think the King's Cross cut has damaged the 476.
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Post by ronnie on Apr 28, 2020 19:19:30 GMT
The 341 would maintain a link from Northumberland Park and Tottenham to Essex Road and Angel. The only broken link would be to Kings Cross so not terrible to expect a change of Bus at Stoke Newington or Angel. I think the King's Cross cut has damaged the 476. Or simply extend the 73 at the northern end (maybe every 2nd or 3rd bus) and get rid of the 476 altogether? There are a few clever tweaks / merging of short routes which can be done. Not that I like it but given tfl finances this is bound to happen at some stage
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 28, 2020 19:48:34 GMT
I was be slightly worried about adding what is still a 5 mins service up to Tottenham again damaging the reliability of the route.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 28, 2020 20:30:37 GMT
The 341 would maintain a link from Northumberland Park and Tottenham to Essex Road and Angel. The only broken link would be to Kings Cross so not terrible to expect a change of Bus at Stoke Newington or Angel. I think the King's Cross cut has damaged the 476. Or simply extend the 73 at the northern end (maybe every 2nd or 3rd bus) and get rid of the 476 altogether? There are a few clever tweaks / merging of short routes which can be done. Not that I like it but given tfl finances this is bound to happen at some stage I think the 476 has been damaged since the slice. I could see routes like the 349, 476, 148 & sadly the 45 at risk of slicing, however sacrifices have to be made and they could always return. One thing that could be the saviour for tfl is the fact that everyone may be more excited to go out so tfl may start taking in more money for some time after Lockdown when people want to socialize I am very worried about the transport network and funding post COVID, it's been making me really sad and very anxious that routes could be sliced and that it may turn people away
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