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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 13:28:28 GMT
remeber as a kid when the 21 used to go to sidcup. any chance as they could extend to it either
eltham station via westhrove ave and well hall road
or
eltham high st (turn around at sountend cresent via westhrove ave and well hall road
or maybe bring it up eltham hill
but i think it be more benerfits via westhrove ave and well hall road as of the station and a new connection to central london
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Post by marlon101 on Dec 30, 2013 15:23:55 GMT
One question: why?
I ought to follow that up with a why do the positives outweigh the likely negative impact on performance to having such a lengthy route?
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Post by Mokujin on Dec 30, 2013 15:26:42 GMT
Huh??
No, route 21 does not need to be extended to Eltham at all as there is already the 321 that goes there.
There is also the N21 which also goes there.
Extending the 21 would be far too long and would make the service unreliable and Lewisham to Newington Green is long enough.
There are two ways from there people can get to Central London:
- Either take the 321 to Lewisham, then get the 21.
- Or, take the 132 to North Greenwich, then get the 188 or the Jubilee Line.
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Post by jrussa on Dec 30, 2013 15:29:35 GMT
I do not believe there is a sufficient reason for Route 21 to be extended to Eltham. Route 321 was developed to replace the Southern end of the route. If Route 321 was discontinued and Route 21 was curtailed to Moorgate or even London Bridge, it could potentially go to Eltham. Based on my observations since Route 21 was extended from Moorgate to Newington Green, it does assist Route 141 quite well!
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 30, 2013 16:48:56 GMT
remeber as a kid when the 21 used to go to sidcup. any chance as they could extend to it either eltham station via westhrove ave and well hall road or eltham high st (turn around at sountend cresent via westhrove ave and well hall road or maybe bring it up eltham hill but i think it be more benerfits via westhrove ave and well hall road as of the station and a new connection to central london From what I have seen there is limited stand space In Eltham apart from Eltham Station, the other stands Eltham High Street 126 & Eltham, Southend Crescent 124 are for 2 buses from what I've seen. I like the idea of the 21 going to Eltham, but the 321 already provides this link, Presumably the 321 is short for a reason. Both the 21 & 321 do get Into difficulties in traffic on a daily basis. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 30, 2013 18:18:44 GMT
plus the freq of the 21, now every 6-7 mins for most of the day would not be needed between Eltham and Lewisham combined with the 321 every 8 mins.
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Post by marlon101 on Dec 30, 2013 21:09:59 GMT
plus the freq of the 21, now every 6-7 mins for most of the day would not be needed between Eltham and Lewisham combined with the 321 every 8 mins. I think even the OP would be forced to admit that it would not be feasible to run both routes. Given the importance of the link provided by the 321 between Sidcup and Eltham with lots of patronage as far as New Cross regularly, particularly of an evening, then the extended 21 would have to be restored to Sidcup. We know that simply does not work, nor can a business case be made for it. |
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Post by IanF on Dec 30, 2013 21:17:27 GMT
The 21 being extended is not a good idea imho I work on the line of route and buses are regularly turned in rush hour so an extension would ruin the route
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 31, 2013 17:17:42 GMT
remeber as a kid when the 21 used to go to sidcup. any chance as they could extend to it either eltham station via westhrove ave and well hall road or eltham high st (turn around at sountend cresent via westhrove ave and well hall road or maybe bring it up eltham hill but i think it be more benerfits via westhrove ave and well hall road as of the station and a new connection to central london I'm afraid I can go back to the days of route 21 with Routemasters, including the lovely RM 8!  Having said that, if anything was to be extended, I think I'd rather extend the 321 to the Elephant (via Old Kent Road) rather than the 21 anywhere. |
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Post by Mokujin on Dec 31, 2013 18:47:32 GMT
remeber as a kid when the 21 used to go to sidcup. any chance as they could extend to it either eltham station via westhrove ave and well hall road or eltham high st (turn around at sountend cresent via westhrove ave and well hall road or maybe bring it up eltham hill but i think it be more benerfits via westhrove ave and well hall road as of the station and a new connection to central london I'm afraid I can go back to the days of route 21 with Routemasters, including the lovely RM 8! Having said that, if anything was to be extended, I think I'd rather extend the 321 to the Elephant (via Old Kent Road) rather than the 21 anywhere. Elephant & Castle to Sidcup is way too far! I think the 321 should remain as it is. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 31, 2013 19:06:13 GMT
I'm afraid I can go back to the days of route 21 with Routemasters, including the lovely RM 8! Having said that, if anything was to be extended, I think I'd rather extend the 321 to the Elephant (via Old Kent Road) rather than the 21 anywhere. Elephant & Castle to Sidcup is way too far! I think the 321 should remain as it is. Would 13 miles really be too long? Plenty of TfL routes are longer!... |
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Post by marlon101 on Dec 31, 2013 19:09:17 GMT
Elephant & Castle to Sidcup is way too far! I think the 321 should remain as it is. Would 13 miles really be too long? Plenty of TfL routes are longer!... And provides another connection to the tube for us south-east Londoners, on the Bakerloo Line which has spare capacity. Might just take some pressure off the 132/North Greenwich when southeastern go caput - I know people from every part of the borough make their way to the 132 when the trains are down! |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 31, 2013 19:17:32 GMT
Would 13 miles really be too long? Plenty of TfL routes are longer!... And provides another connection to the tube for us south-east Londoners, on the Bakerloo Line which has spare capacity. Might just take some pressure off the 132/North Greenwich when southeastern go caput - I know people from every part of the borough make their way to the 132 when the trains are down! And the 132 was the subject of a recent question to the Mayor citing the fact that the route is completely overloaded from Eltham to NOG. It also says queues can be so long at NOG that buses leave people behind - so that means 90 or more people waiting for each bus! Amongst the same set of questions was a complaint about the lack of organisation (apparently) when London Bridge fell over and South Eastern's trains stopped running. It seems NOG turned into a riot zone with people fighting and the buses unable to cope! The politician apparently expected TfL to conjure buses out of thin air to instantly supplement existing frequencies. |
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Post by marlon101 on Dec 31, 2013 20:20:26 GMT
And provides another connection to the tube for us south-east Londoners, on the Bakerloo Line which has spare capacity. Might just take some pressure off the 132/North Greenwich when southeastern go caput - I know people from every part of the borough make their way to the 132 when the trains are down! And the 132 was the subject of a recent question to the Mayor citing the fact that the route is completely overloaded from Eltham to NOG. It also says queues can be so long at NOG that buses leave people behind - so that means 90 or more people waiting for each bus! Amongst the same set of questions was a complaint about the lack of organisation (apparently) when London Bridge fell over and South Eastern's trains stopped running. It seems NOG turned into a riot zone with people fighting and the buses unable to cope! The politician apparently expected TfL to conjure buses out of thin air to instantly supplement existing frequencies. North Greenwich really does feel it when the train set breaks, a symptom of this corner of London's lack of suitable connection to the tube. An extension of the 321 to the Elephant would be rather helpful in such situations. That is a rather unfair question. In theory it is southeastern who should be conjuring buses from thin air... Not sure what solution you would put in place for the 132 between Eltham and North Greenwich on the grounds that demand will pretty much instantly fill any increase in supply. The easier you make it for people around here to cheaply access the tube avoiding southeastern, the more people will opt for such a solution. |
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Post by beaver14uk on Jan 1, 2014 15:48:15 GMT
Yes I was working at North Greenwich that night, well passing through and stayed on to assist until 2200. The Police were called to restore order (which they also struggled to do). Clearly as ever the politicians haven't a clue - where do all these extra buses and drivers come from. As ever nice to be appreciated (not). And provides another connection to the tube for us south-east Londoners, on the Bakerloo Line which has spare capacity. Might just take some pressure off the 132/North Greenwich when southeastern go caput - I know people from every part of the borough make their way to the 132 when the trains are down! And the 132 was the subject of a recent question to the Mayor citing the fact that the route is completely overloaded from Eltham to NOG. It also says queues can be so long at NOG that buses leave people behind - so that means 90 or more people waiting for each bus! Amongst the same set of questions was a complaint about the lack of organisation (apparently) when London Bridge fell over and South Eastern's trains stopped running. It seems NOG turned into a riot zone with people fighting and the buses unable to cope! The politician apparently expected TfL to conjure buses out of thin air to instantly supplement existing frequencies. |
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