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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 20:55:34 GMT
Hi all, Following on from axing bus routes / saving money etc. With so many cuts in funning etc could any money be saved by cutting back on refurbishments on 5 year contract renewals? Why not refurbish buses after say 10 years? There are plenty of buses running in London that have never had refurbishments since new (Some examples 174XX 1750X Tridents Stageoach) Just a idea before I get shot down in flames
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Post by snoggle on Jan 31, 2014 21:04:56 GMT
Hi all, Following on from axing bus routes / saving money etc. With so many cuts in funning etc could any money be saved by cutting back on refurbishments on 5 year contract renewals? Why not refurbish buses after say 10 years? There are plenty of buses running in London that have never had refurbishments since new (Some examples 174XX 1750X Tridents Stageoach) Just a idea before I get shot down in flames The problem with not refurbishing for 10 years is that the vehicles with some operators will be in such a disgusting state that you would want a protective oversuit to travel in them. Some London operators, such as Stagecoach, do a good job at keeping their buses smartly presented but they are a bit of an exception. I think it is important that interiors (and other aspects) are given a refresh if only to ensure the damaged seat covers and "squashed to oblivion" seat padding is replaced so people actually have a decent seat to sit on. These are the absolute basics of providing an acceptable travelling environment and all passengers deserve to have those.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 31, 2014 21:22:55 GMT
Hi all, Following on from axing bus routes / saving money etc. With so many cuts in funning etc could any money be saved by cutting back on refurbishments on 5 year contract renewals? Why not refurbish buses after say 10 years? There are plenty of buses running in London that have never had refurbishments since new (Some examples 174XX 1750X Tridents Stageoach) Just a idea before I get shot down in flames Buses not refurbished 447, 456, 479 03 Plate Omnidekkas. All in terrible state and are all spares, never refurbished. 34387 at TL has never been refurbished. Seats feel tatty and the fabric is tough. Refurbishing fleet is a good thing, makes the passenger feel more welcome imo, than having such old tatty seating.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 31, 2014 21:27:49 GMT
Abellio's 09 and 59 plate E400s could do with refurbs. 9829 - 9843 could do with some too, but it would be pointless at this stage...
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Post by Ice Prxnce on Jan 31, 2014 21:36:30 GMT
Hi all, Following on from axing bus routes / saving money etc. With so many cuts in funning etc could any money be saved by cutting back on refurbishments on 5 year contract renewals? Why not refurbish buses after say 10 years? There are plenty of buses running in London that have never had refurbishments since new (Some examples 174XX 1750X Tridents Stageoach) Just a idea before I get shot down in flames Buses not refurbished 447, 456, 479 03 Plate Omnidekkas. All in terrible state and are all spares, never refurbished. 34387 at TL has never been refurbished. Seats feel tatty and the fabric is tough. Refurbishing fleet is a good thing, makes the passenger feel more welcome imo, than having such old tatty seating. 17478 also has not been refurbished either but the seating interior has been changed.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 31, 2014 21:49:26 GMT
Never really seen many batches of buses still looking in a satisfactory condition after 5 years - the 06 reg E's for both the 37 & 196 were in a ok state. Best ones would be the majority of the 55 reg VLA's - the paintwork seemed to take ages to fade which is good and they only got refurbed recently - a good 8 years later.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 22:01:08 GMT
Further to what Snoggle has written, I don't think Londoners and tourists alike, would take a particularly positive view of the transport system and perhaps more importantly the city as a whole, if TfL/operators allowed deteriorating buses to run in passenger service. I guess if you really work flat out to maintain a fleet its possible for it to look presentable in 10 years time. BUT buses here are worked very hard everyday in a difficult environment, the current refurbishment regime seems to work.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 31, 2014 22:02:32 GMT
Never really seen many batches of buses still looking in a satisfactory condition after 5 years - the 06 reg E's for both the 37 & 196 were in a ok state. Best ones would be the majority of the 55 reg VLA's - the paintwork seemed to take ages to fade which is good and they only got refurbed recently - a good 8 years later. What about the 54 reg PVL's that GAL have? Those buses were and still are in decent/usable condition. I was slightly surprised to find out that they are being refurbished. Seems pointless nearly 10 years later..
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 31, 2014 22:17:58 GMT
Never really seen many batches of buses still looking in a satisfactory condition after 5 years - the 06 reg E's for both the 37 & 196 were in a ok state. Best ones would be the majority of the 55 reg VLA's - the paintwork seemed to take ages to fade which is good and they only got refurbed recently - a good 8 years later. What about the 54 reg PVL's that GAL have? Those buses were and still are in decent/usable condition. I was slightly surprised to find out that they are being refurbished. Seems pointless nearly 10 years later.. Because it is part of the 270 & 280s contracts. At the end of the contracts the buses will be more worn. So a refurbishment is deserved .
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Post by LX09FBJ on Feb 1, 2014 0:04:17 GMT
TA204 is still in good condition, even without a refurb, as was VA74 before it was withdrawn The same however can't be said of the unrefurbed 03 reg TAs which are not in good condition either. Its really a lottery, some buses are well looked after, some less so. On the contrary, SP38/41-51 at AV need a refurb ASAP! Hate the seats on those buses which is a shame because I like the OmniCity (its not my absolute favourite but I don't hate them) And London United have refurbished and repainted buses older than 10 years old: The TAs at FW were ten when refurbed for the 131, as was TA315 when it got a repaint, TA204 was twelve! However, changing the seat moquette, will look the vehicle feel 'newer' even though its not. For instance, the only diffrence on the 56 reg SPs after refurb is that the seats are now more comfortable (and have a slightly lighter tone to the trim), and they've had the pannel above the window repainted. SPs 1/9-14 have roundels as well.
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Post by Hassaan on Feb 1, 2014 0:12:42 GMT
TA204 is still in good condition, even without a refurb, as was VA74 before it was withdrawn The same however can't be said of the unrefurbed 03 reg TAs which are not in good condition either. Its really a lottery, some buses are well looked after, some less so. And London United have refurbished and repainted buses older than 10 years old: The TAs at FW were ten when refurbed for the 131, as was TA315 when it got a repaint, TA204 was twelve! For some of the 51-reg TA's that was their second refurbishment! I remember when TA210 and TA212 were at AV between 2005 and 2007 they were both repainted and refurbished, as well as several other higher numbered ones of the batch.
But yes, it can be really random what condition buses are in after several years. The older unrefurbished SP's are not that good but the 1 year difference between the H32 and 111 batches seems like much longer, nor can you tell the 111 and H91 batches entered service at roughly the same time (the H91 ones look newer as the HH decker routes are not that busy most of the time). The paintwork of both the 111 and H91 batches is also very good, doesn't look like almost 4 years old unless you stick a 56-reg SP next to it (their paint is really good too).
Refurbishment of buses after a few years also makes them look brand new most of the time
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Post by Nathan on Feb 1, 2014 13:38:25 GMT
Come to think of it, GAL's VEs could do with some refurbishment. The seats are so flat, and the engine (or engines) doesn't sound that great. I always try to avoid boarding those buses.
Quick question: Do the VEs have blinds for other AF routes?
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Post by guybowden on Feb 1, 2014 20:15:53 GMT
In the days of London Transport and Aldenham Works buses were refurbished every 5 years (IIRC)and when they came out they were like brand new buses and IMO this is why RTs and RMs lasted so long! Refurbishment is necessary and needed because when the 36 was re-awarded to NX E94-E99 went off to be refurbed and when they came back they looked like new buses, before they went off they didn't look overly worn/tired from a distance but when you went up close they did. The trouble with London buses, regardless of what company they belong to they are work horses and not concourse vehicles like an Aston Martin or Ferrari, so wear and tear is expected.
IMO Stagecoach and Go Ahead London generally have the best looking buses, but Abellio and some Arriva buses and HTC are there worst kept.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 21:16:52 GMT
In the late 80s to late 90s were Titans etc. refurbished?
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Post by vjaska on Feb 1, 2014 22:00:14 GMT
In the late 80s to late 90s were Titans etc. refurbished? The Titans & Metrobuses were refurbed at least once before Aldenham closed - as mentioned on the previous page, refurbs on buses were done every 4 years. Once Aldenham closed, I think the majority of Titans & Metrobuses were never refurbed again. 41 L class Olympians at Norwood under Arriva did get a deep refurb in 2001 due to the retention of the 2 & 176 but the rest were left to decay by Arriva.
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