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Post by snoggle on Jun 24, 2014 10:47:14 GMT
Which would be cheaper to order nowadays, hybrid double deckers or fully diesel variants with the hybrid flywheel? I imagine the difference in fuel savings are alot less now, but with the hybrid still benefiting that bit more... and still better in value in the long run. I don't know the answer but I think it's not the purchase cost that's the key issue. It's the whole life cost. My guess is that operators have a preference for simpler technology which is why flywheels and micro hybrids are emerging. The other big issue is vehicle weight and we are now seeing a swing, especially outside London, towards lighter vehicles. TfL's spec for its buses tends to make things heavier and operating conditions are somewhat more arduous. The big issue with full hybrids is battery life and costs of replacement including vehicle down time when / if they require replacement. This aspect of hybrid ownership is not subsidised by the Government whereas vehicle purchase costs have been via the Green Bus Fund. I think this complicates the real picture for operators and the unpredictability of the Green Bus funding may have pushed operators to seek cheaper technology or conversions rather than buy full hybrids. I read something recently that said Ensignbus had teamed with a supplier of technology that can "hybridise" older buses and make them more fuel efficient. The other interesting development, again Green Bus funded, is the move to gas powered Scania single deckers by Reading Transport and Stagecoach North East (Sunderland). I'd never have predicted those moves - for some reason London is not at all keen on gas power for buses. I suspect that those vehicles could be converted back to diesel operation if needed so there's less risk of obsolescence whereas London has already quietly dumped several batches of hybrid buses when no one was watching too closely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 19:24:51 GMT
I've noticed a lot lately that the N68 is occasionally a mixture of Diesel and Hybrid (from the 12 bus fleet). Are they trial running the Hybrids on this route for future conversion to Hybrids only on this very busy/popular night bus route.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:14:45 GMT
People are missing the main point here: hybrid buses are better for the environment. We're quite literally destroying our own planet, why can't anyone see that??? And yes, I consider myself an eco-warrior (ish). In fact, my dream car is a Nissan Leaf which is electric.
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 17:36:44 GMT
People are missing the main point here: hybrid buses are better for the environment. We're quite literally destroying our own planet, why can't anyone see that??? And yes, I consider myself an eco-warrior (ish). In fact, my dream car is a Nissan Leaf which is electric. Just because Hybrids are Environmentally friendly does not mean people has to like them.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 9, 2014 17:49:03 GMT
People are missing the main point here: hybrid buses are better for the environment. We're quite literally destroying our own planet, why can't anyone see that??? And yes, I consider myself an eco-warrior (ish). In fact, my dream car is a Nissan Leaf which is electric. It's a poll and presumably just for fun. It's not compulsory to vote - I haven't done so as I don't really have a view about diesels vs hybrids. I'm not a bus noise and vibrations freakoid . If you were an eco-warrior I'd suggest you wouldn't be dreaming about electric cars. You'd be dreaming of no cars and lots of people walking and cycling with the rest on public transport. The real poll would be for people to rank their preferred forms of transport in London - bus, cycle, walking, trams, trolleybus, metro, trains, cars, taxis. However this is essentially a bus group so people are naturally going to be more interested in those.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:50:47 GMT
People are missing the main point here: hybrid buses are better for the environment. We're quite literally destroying our own planet, why can't anyone see that??? And yes, I consider myself an eco-warrior (ish). In fact, my dream car is a Nissan Leaf which is electric. Just because Hybrids are Environmentally friendly does not mean people has to like them. People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C.
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 17:53:45 GMT
Just because Hybrids are Environmentally friendly does not mean people has to like them. People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. - Why do people have to like Hybrids?
- Where is your proof that Hybrids are better for the environment?
- What have you done to be environmentally friendly?
- Does Global Warming exist?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:56:50 GMT
People are missing the main point here: hybrid buses are better for the environment. We're quite literally destroying our own planet, why can't anyone see that??? And yes, I consider myself an eco-warrior (ish). In fact, my dream car is a Nissan Leaf which is electric. It's a poll and presumably just for fun. It's not compulsory to vote - I haven't done so as I don't really have a view about diesels vs hybrids. I'm not a bus noise and vibrations freakoid . If you were an eco-warrior I'd suggest you wouldn't be dreaming about electric cars. You'd be dreaming of no cars and lots of people walking and cycling with the rest on public transport. The real poll would be for people to rank their preferred forms of transport in London - bus, cycle, walking, trams, trolleybus, metro, trains, cars, taxis. However this is essentially a bus group so people are naturally going to be more interested in those. That's true. In my idea of a perfect world, it'd be similar to that. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. What you said above is never going to happen. It's also a matter of practicality. Cycling also has it's downsides, and walking 2 hours to work and school and other places isn't even worth thinking about. Besides, when I eventually do get a car, I'm going to use the bus most of time- I don't like travelling by car at all, because I feel so small, puny and insignificant compared to the upper deck. So two benefits.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 9, 2014 18:00:53 GMT
Just because Hybrids are Environmentally friendly does not mean people has to like them. People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. As much as I agree with your statement, I disagree with the fact that people HAVE to like hybrids. Don't get me wrong, I love hybrids. But I think that diesel buses sound better. Now just because I like that one factor about diesel vehicles, doesn't mean I don't want hybrids on the road. I'm sure many other people share the same opinion as I do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:05:25 GMT
People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. - Why do people have to like Hybrids?
- Where is your proof that Hybrids are better for the environment?
- What have you done to be environmentally friendly?
Proof- It's well known hybrids use less fuel which is why their cheaper in the long run. Diesel comes from crude oil. Crude oil is also used to make plastic and some medicines. Experts estimate oil will run out in around a hundred years. That's alright for our lifetime, but you need to look at the bigger picture. And I do a lot for the environment. There's a saying that it's the little things that count- well it couldn't be more true here. I always jump at the opportunity to turn off the tap when my mum's temporarily stopped using it, even though it usually ends in a telling off. I also recycle anything possible, such as the smallest scraps of paper and tissue. I also almost always refuse to be dropped off because of the following philosophy- the bus will run whether I take it or not but the car will only run if I choose to. PS: I'm still a teenager, hence the "mum leaving the tap on" bit and the dropping off bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:07:52 GMT
People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. As much as I agree with your statement, I disagree with the fact that people HAVE to like hybrids. Don't get me wrong, I love hybrids. But I think that diesel buses sound better. Now just because I like that one factor about diesel vehicles, doesn't mean I don't want hybrids on the road. I'm sure many other people share the same opinion as I do. Fair point, I agree to some extent. If you ask me, the best sounding bus is the Euro V E400H, followed by the Trident 2, which I'm sure has terrible fuel consumption.
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 18:36:43 GMT
- Why do people have to like Hybrids?
- Where is your proof that Hybrids are better for the environment?
- What have you done to be environmentally friendly?
Proof- It's well known hybrids use less fuel which is why their cheaper in the long run. Diesel comes from crude oil. Crude oil is also used to make plastic and some medicines. Experts estimate oil will run out in around a hundred years. That's alright for our lifetime, but you need to look at the bigger picture. And I do a lot for the environment. There's a saying that it's the little things that count- well it couldn't be more true here. I always jump at the opportunity to turn off the tap when my mum's temporarily stopped using it, even though it usually ends in a telling off. I also recycle anything possible, such as the smallest scraps of paper and tissue. I also almost always refuse to be dropped off because of the following philosophy- the bus will run whether I take it or not but the car will only run if I choose to. PS: I'm still a teenager, hence the "mum leaving the tap on" bit and the dropping off bit. I maybe wrong but aren't hybrids powered by electricity. In order to re fuel hybrids don't you need to plug them to a wall to get electricity so that hybrids can get their fuel source. Aren't we told to cut down on electricity to help stop global warming. I maybe wrong but doesn't electricity come from Coal. Doesn't coal come from the ground. Isn't coal supposed to be limited. If hybrids need electricity to be powered I can't see hybrids being good for the environment.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 9, 2014 18:47:40 GMT
Proof- It's well known hybrids use less fuel which is why their cheaper in the long run. Diesel comes from crude oil. Crude oil is also used to make plastic and some medicines. Experts estimate oil will run out in around a hundred years. That's alright for our lifetime, but you need to look at the bigger picture. And I do a lot for the environment. There's a saying that it's the little things that count- well it couldn't be more true here. I always jump at the opportunity to turn off the tap when my mum's temporarily stopped using it, even though it usually ends in a telling off. I also recycle anything possible, such as the smallest scraps of paper and tissue. I also almost always refuse to be dropped off because of the following philosophy- the bus will run whether I take it or not but the car will only run if I choose to. PS: I'm still a teenager, hence the "mum leaving the tap on" bit and the dropping off bit. I maybe wrong but aren't hybrids powered by electricity. In order to re fuel hybrids don't you need to plug them to a wall to get electricity so that hybrids can get their fuel source. Aren't we told to cut down on electricity to help stop global warming. I maybe wrong but doesn't electricity come from Coal. Doesn't coal come from the ground. Isn't coal supposed to be limited. If hybrids need electricity to be powered I can't see hybrids being good for the environment. I know that with the E40H, when the bus slows down that's when it gains more power, which is why the bus slows down slightly every so often when travelling at a high speed. So it basically converts Kinetic Energy to Electrical energy. I might be slightly wrong about all of this though. Although it makes sense, as it would be pointless to use MORE of a unsustainable source (being coal for electicity) in such a way. I don't know how B5LHs work though. Could someone shed some more light on this?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:49:55 GMT
Proof- It's well known hybrids use less fuel which is why their cheaper in the long run. Diesel comes from crude oil. Crude oil is also used to make plastic and some medicines. Experts estimate oil will run out in around a hundred years. That's alright for our lifetime, but you need to look at the bigger picture. And I do a lot for the environment. There's a saying that it's the little things that count- well it couldn't be more true here. I always jump at the opportunity to turn off the tap when my mum's temporarily stopped using it, even though it usually ends in a telling off. I also recycle anything possible, such as the smallest scraps of paper and tissue. I also almost always refuse to be dropped off because of the following philosophy- the bus will run whether I take it or not but the car will only run if I choose to. PS: I'm still a teenager, hence the "mum leaving the tap on" bit and the dropping off bit. I maybe wrong but aren't hybrids powered by electricity. In order to re fuel hybrids don't you need to plug them to a wall to get electricity so that hybrids can get their fuel source. Aren't we told to cut down on electricity to help stop global warming. I maybe wrong but doesn't electricity come from Coal. Doesn't coal come from the ground. Isn't coal supposed to be limited. If hybrids need electricity to be powered I can't see hybrids being good for the environment. Hybrid power is obtained by capturing energy lost during braking and deceleration. A moving bus has energy, a stationary bus none (ok not technically correct but good for this example). Energy can never be destroyed, it just gets converted from one form to another. Hybrids capture some of the lost energy lost under breaking and acceleration and store it as electrical energy. This energy is then used to assist acceleration rather than being totally reliant on diesel power. Hybrids are not plugged in each night.
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 19:08:01 GMT
I maybe wrong but aren't hybrids powered by electricity. In order to re fuel hybrids don't you need to plug them to a wall to get electricity so that hybrids can get their fuel source. Aren't we told to cut down on electricity to help stop global warming. I maybe wrong but doesn't electricity come from Coal. Doesn't coal come from the ground. Isn't coal supposed to be limited. If hybrids need electricity to be powered I can't see hybrids being good for the environment. Hybrid power is obtained by capturing energy lost during braking and deceleration. A moving bus has energy, a stationary bus none (ok not technically correct but good for this example). Energy can never be destroyed, it just gets converted from one form to another. Hybrids capture some of the lost energy lost under breaking and acceleration and store it as electrical energy. This energy is then used to assist acceleration rather than being totally reliant on diesel power. Hybrids are not plugged in each night. Even though they are not plugged in each night. They do get plugged in to get refueled don't they?
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