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Post by snoggle on Jul 21, 2016 15:52:18 GMT
I dont get the complaints about long waits for the these new night routes. They dont exist now, how can they complain about that? Try waiting for a 123 at 2am now, see how long the wait is. Maybe I am being a bit harsh but am I a missing something? I think the thing you're missing is the contrast between relatively frequent night tube services and the contrast with the weekend night bus services. I doubt TfL will do the obvious thing of showing which night tube departures link comfortably to weekend night bus services at particular interchanges but it would allow people to plan their connections with greater reassurance. I'd also argue that buses would be required to wait time at connecting nodes if they were running early. If I walked out of Blackhorse Rd facing a 29 minute wait for a bus I'd be pretty p*ss*d off to be honest. I'd be forced to walk unless a N73 was due. Oxford Circus xx xx Blackhorse Rd yy yy Bus 158 to Stratford yy+6 yy+6 (bus leaves 6 mins after tube arrival) Bus 158 to C Mount yy+7 yy+7 Bus 123 to Ilford yy+5 yy+5 Bus N73 to W'Stow every 15 mins. Obviously with real timetables you can show the mins past the hour for all the services. TfL have an opportunity to provide a quantum leap in passenger information with the night tube and connecting services but I doubt they'll bother. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jul 21, 2016 16:43:09 GMT
I still question the judgement displayed with the withdrawal of the night 75. Norwood Junction / Lower Sydenham / Addiscombe / Selhurst / Elmers End areas unserved still , big gaps in the network there in my opinion. The 75 and 157 run until well after 1am though, with some reasonably late departures from Croydon. I think the 358 has the longest operating hours of any route without a night element so Elmers End isn't totally isolated! |
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 15, 2016 11:28:37 GMT
Right, let's get serious. With the consultation report, all but maybe a couple routes have had feedback saying there should be quieter bus types on 24-hour weekend routes (IIRC H37 & W7 didn't receive any noise complaints). My question is that will routes 123, W3, 158, 145, E1, 296, 34 and W7 actually see quieter buses?
Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers.
I'd very much like TfL to get the bus aspect right of the Night Tube; the only vested interest I have in the scheme is the night bus enhancement to the network. Being considerate to the residents that live on the route (for example the N238 having a 20mph limit between East Ham station & Stratford) can lead to less complaints and overall approval of this scheme as we delve deeper into this 24/7 city lifestyle.
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Post by jrussa on Aug 15, 2016 12:51:12 GMT
I do not see the N8 patronage declining from the 19th August 2016 for the following reasons:
1. I believe some passengers would rather stay on the N8 from West End to the Shoreditch, Bethnal Green (Road), Old Ford and Bow area than wait 10mins for a train, change at Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green and Mile End and change for the same bus they walked passed on Oxford Street or Shoreditch High Street.
2. I can see a decent size crowd waiting at Stratford if their destination is somewhere along Leytonstone High Road.
3. The fare on the train being £2.30 vs £0.00 on the bus (due to the N8 being operated with NBfL)
I can see the N55 receiving a small patronage increase because of Snaresbrook and South Woodford stations being open. People may wait for the N55 if their destination is somewhere along Hermon Hill and High Road Woodford Green.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 15, 2016 13:13:58 GMT
Right, let's get serious. With the consultation report, all but maybe a couple routes have had feedback saying there should be quieter bus types on 24-hour weekend routes (IIRC H37 & W7 didn't receive any noise complaints). My question is that will routes 123, W3, 158, 145, E1, 296, 34 and W7 actually see quieter buses? Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers. I'd very much like TfL to get the bus aspect right of the Night Tube; the only vested interest I have in the scheme is the night bus enhancement to the network. Being considerate to the residents that live on the route (for example the N238 having a 20mph limit between East Ham station & Stratford) can lead to less complaints and overall approval of this scheme as we delve deeper into this 24/7 city lifestyle. The only quieter buses than can be put on the 123 are the DWs and it will be interesting to see if Arriva go to that effort given DWs don't appear on Friday's normal run out. 4 DWs are scheduled on Saturdays but whether that aligns with how the night services will mesh into and out of Saturday's service remains to be seen. To be fair to the NB4Ls on the N73 - I can never hear those moving along the main road even if the windows are open. I'd have thought the E400s on the W3 were OK given they're relatively new. I don't think a HV has ever run on the route and I wonder if we are back into "clearances" again given the tight turns and level of parking on some parts of the route? I can't see the W7 being a huge problem either for noise. Those Volvos aren't overly loud and plenty run through Muswell Hill at night on the 43 / 134. 145 and 34 and E1 are all full or part hybrid run so quiet buses should not be an issue. It's not as if there is a bus every 5 mins along any of the roads in question where these routes will run in residential areas. As you say the more interesting routes are the 158 and 296 and what they end up with. Again though the number of buses trundling along residential roads is low and if you're used to noise from the A12 then 2 buses an hour will make no difference. |
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Post by sid on Aug 15, 2016 16:11:44 GMT
I do not see the N8 patronage declining from the 19th August 2016 for the following reasons: 1. I believe some passengers would rather stay on the N8 from West End to the Shoreditch, Bethnal Green (Road), Old Ford and Bow area than wait 10mins for a train, change at Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green and Mile End and change for the same bus they walked passed on Oxford Street or Shoreditch High Street. 2. I can see a decent size crowd waiting at Stratford if their destination is somewhere along Leytonstone High Road. 3. The fare on the train being £2.30 vs £0.00 on the bus (due to the N8 being operated with NBfL) I can see the N55 receiving a small patronage increase because of Snaresbrook and South Woodford stations being open. People may wait for the N55 if their destination is somewhere along Hermon Hill and High Road Woodford Green. I can't see the N8 being kept as it is just to provide people with the option of a free ride home  |
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 15, 2016 16:43:37 GMT
I do not see the N8 patronage declining from the 19th August 2016 for the following reasons: 1. I believe some passengers would rather stay on the N8 from West End to the Shoreditch, Bethnal Green (Road), Old Ford and Bow area than wait 10mins for a train, change at Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green and Mile End and change for the same bus they walked passed on Oxford Street or Shoreditch High Street. 2. I can see a decent size crowd waiting at Stratford if their destination is somewhere along Leytonstone High Road.
3. The fare on the train being £2.30 vs £0.00 on the bus (due to the N8 being operated with NBfL) I can see the N55 receiving a small patronage increase because of Snaresbrook and South Woodford stations being open. People may wait for the N55 if their destination is somewhere along Hermon Hill and High Road Woodford Green. I can't see the N8 being kept as it is just to provide people with the option of a free ride home Stratford is predicted to be the busiest station outside of central London, so I expect manic scenes in the day to be replicated at night. The route that needs a tinker will be the N207 as I expect many passengers will want to travel past Hayes-by-Pass. With the Central line paralleling the route between Marble Arch and Shepherd's Bush, there would be some relief before the suburban section of the route but if the half-hourly Uxbridge bound buses are struggling to cope now then scenes won't look pretty at Ealing Broadway. EDIT: Yes I know the N207 goes up to Holborn lool, but buses get jammed at Marble Arch with minimal alighting before Shepherd's Bush. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 16:51:38 GMT
I do not see the N8 patronage declining from the 19th August 2016 for the following reasons: 1. I believe some passengers would rather stay on the N8 from West End to the Shoreditch, Bethnal Green (Road), Old Ford and Bow area than wait 10mins for a train, change at Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green and Mile End and change for the same bus they walked passed on Oxford Street or Shoreditch High Street. 2. I can see a decent size crowd waiting at Stratford if their destination is somewhere along Leytonstone High Road. 3. The fare on the train being £2.30 vs £0.00 on the bus (due to the N8 being operated with NBfL) I can see the N55 receiving a small patronage increase because of Snaresbrook and South Woodford stations being open. People may wait for the N55 if their destination is somewhere along Hermon Hill and High Road Woodford Green. I totally agree with all your points above re N8 but also the N55. The Woodford/Sth Woodford/Wanstead areas are already busy places for drinks and eateries etc. I agree. |
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Post by routew15 on Aug 15, 2016 16:56:56 GMT
I do not see the N8 patronage declining from the 19th August 2016 for the following reasons: 1. I believe some passengers would rather stay on the N8 from West End to the Shoreditch, Bethnal Green (Road), Old Ford and Bow area than wait 10mins for a train, change at Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green and Mile End and change for the same bus they walked passed on Oxford Street or Shoreditch High Street. 2. I can see a decent size crowd waiting at Stratford if their destination is somewhere along Leytonstone High Road. 3. The fare on the train being £2.30 vs £0.00 on the bus (due to the N8 being operated with NBfL) I can see the N55 receiving a small patronage increase because of Snaresbrook and South Woodford stations being open. People may wait for the N55 if their destination is somewhere along Hermon Hill and High Road Woodford Green. I can't see the N8 being kept as it is just to provide people with the option of a free ride home I agree . Though I do err on the side of caution as I think there is quite a large chance that the Night Tube may increase usage on some routes as it will allow more passengers to "#FreeTheNight", the review of Night bus service that will follow Night tube service is a fundamental part to the success of the night tube as consideration needs to be given to affected passengers. Whilst TfL waste time holding sequels to the Abbey Road Consultation it will be telling to see if the Night Bus service affected by Night tube get a second round of consultation |
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Post by 6HP502C on Aug 15, 2016 18:00:42 GMT
Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers. The 205's hybrids are not quiet buses  |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Aug 15, 2016 18:36:59 GMT
I hope the buses used on 296 will be deckers. And of course, NO VLAs going on 123  What I feel troubled is that Tfl ignored the feedback on 154 and it's still only a weekend night bus. 110 people said it should run every night, compared to like under 10 for other consulted routes!! N213 should never have been withdrawn in the first place. Some every 30min will deffo get a bit filled off the tube and will require a freq increase. Also, I hate route 221 was ignored in this, it's busy even after midnight. And the 75 too - yes I'm aware it links no tube stations, but where it goes there is a large night-bus deprived gap, which should be filled, just like Carshalton+Wallington on the 154. Also, busy estate-sy routes like W15 and W4 should not have been missed. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 15, 2016 18:50:58 GMT
Right, let's get serious. With the consultation report, all but maybe a couple routes have had feedback saying there should be quieter bus types on 24-hour weekend routes (IIRC H37 & W7 didn't receive any noise complaints). My question is that will routes 123, W3, 158, 145, E1, 296, 34 and W7 actually see quieter buses? Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers. I'd very much like TfL to get the bus aspect right of the Night Tube; the only vested interest I have in the scheme is the night bus enhancement to the network. Being considerate to the residents that live on the route (for example the N238 having a 20mph limit between East Ham station & Stratford) can lead to less complaints and overall approval of this scheme as we delve deeper into this 24/7 city lifestyle. The only quieter buses than can be put on the 123 are the DWs and it will be interesting to see if Arriva go to that effort given DWs don't appear on Friday's normal run out. 4 DWs are scheduled on Saturdays but whether that aligns with how the night services will mesh into and out of Saturday's service remains to be seen. To be fair to the NB4Ls on the N73 - I can never hear those moving along the main road even if the windows are open. I'd have thought the E400s on the W3 were OK given they're relatively new. I don't think a HV has ever run on the route and I wonder if we are back into "clearances" again given the tight turns and level of parking on some parts of the route? I can't see the W7 being a huge problem either for noise. Those Volvos aren't overly loud and plenty run through Muswell Hill at night on the 43 / 134. 145 and 34 and E1 are all full or part hybrid run so quiet buses should not be an issue. It's not as if there is a bus every 5 mins along any of the roads in question where these routes will run in residential areas. As you say the more interesting routes are the 158 and 296 and what they end up with. Again though the number of buses trundling along residential roads is low and if you're used to noise from the A12 then 2 buses an hour will make no difference. A few points: The cooling fan on an Enviro 400 can be quite loud when the bus is reaching higher revs so there is potential noise The 145 is a fully diesel operated route including the MMC's brought recently? The E1 uses Euro VI Enviro hybrids which are loud - I know this from personal experience as the 3/N3 used to see almost daily workings and the 415 is allocated them The W3 used to use 10.6m DLA's though obviously, the overhang doesn't compare to a 10.4m HV Even with all that, London is still a noisy place so shouldn't even be relevant. If people don't like noise, move out of the city. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 15, 2016 19:24:19 GMT
I haven't ridden the (N)154 yet but I wonder how it is doing. I can see when the night northern line starts it's filling up at Morden station.
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Post by RM5chris on Aug 15, 2016 19:35:05 GMT
No problems with HVs on the W3: -  (its my picture so nick it without permission and I will smash your teeth in) |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 15, 2016 19:48:38 GMT
A few points: The cooling fan on an Enviro 400 can be quite loud when the bus is reaching higher revs so there is potential noise The 145 is a fully diesel operated route including the MMC's brought recently? The E1 uses Euro VI Enviro hybrids which are loud - I know this from personal experience as the 3/N3 used to see almost daily workings and the 415 is allocated them The W3 used to use 10.6m DLA's though obviously, the overhang doesn't compare to a 10.4m HV Even with all that, London is still a noisy place so shouldn't even be relevant. If people don't like noise, move out of the city. Well that's me put in my place.   |
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Surprised that Higham Hill was a centre for moans about the night 123 / 158. 
