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Post by rmz19 on Aug 15, 2016 20:03:09 GMT
Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers. The 205's hybrids are not quiet buses  Put it this way...they're quiet until they're thrashed and the noise suddenly hits you  |
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 15, 2016 20:16:59 GMT
I hope the buses used on 296 will be deckers. And of course, NO VLAs going on 123  What I feel troubled is that Tfl ignored the feedback on 154 and it's still only a weekend night bus. 110 people said it should run every night, compared to like under 10 for other consulted routes!! N213 should never have been withdrawn in the first place. Some every 30min will deffo get a bit filled off the tube and will require a freq increase. Also, I hate route 221 was ignored in this, it's busy even after midnight. And the 75 too - yes I'm aware it links no tube stations, but where it goes there is a large night-bus deprived gap, which should be filled, just like Carshalton+Wallington on the 154. Also, busy estate-sy routes like W15 and W4 should not have been missed. It goes without saying a certain VLA operated route got the highest noise complaints in the consultation!   The 123 will definitely be the most interesting route for bus type when respondents practically begged Arriva to ban VLAs running on weekend nights. Croydon's hacking of its night routes without replacement is daylight robbery to me. Croydon's lucky in the fact that it has a 24 train operation in the form of Thameslink, and the N75 catered for this by having services serve East Croydon at nights. Despite this it got culled along with N213, and a big gap in night services around surrounding the town centre ensued. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 15, 2016 20:46:14 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 23:21:37 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64. I asked TfL ages ago quite why a large swathe of SE Lomdon has no night route at all....I received the usual "we keep the bus network under constant review" reply. Elmers End, South Norwood, Lower Sydenham, Sydenham Road, Catford Hill, Lee ( as opposed to Lee Green), Kidbrooke, all have nothing. I know there's demand because I work in these areas at night. There's many 24/7 establishments open , be it McDonalds, High Street grocers etc. Plenty of people living in these areas live more cosmopolitan 24/7 lifestyles than the typical residents of leafy Teddington, which has 3 night routes .... Crazy !! |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 15, 2016 23:41:28 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64. I asked TfL ages ago quite why a large swathe of SE Lomdon has no night route at all....I received the usual "we keep the bus network under constant review" reply. Elmers End, South Norwood, Lower Sydenham, Sydenham Road, Catford Hill, Lee ( as opposed to Lee Green), Kidbrooke, all have nothing. I know there's demand because I work in these areas at night. There's many 24/7 establishments open , be it McDonalds, High Street grocers etc. Plenty of people living in these areas live more cosmopolitan 24/7 lifestyles than the typical residents of leafy Teddington, which has 3 night routes .... Crazy !! I've mentioned a proposal on here I've had before of re-introducing the N75 but between Croydon, Fairfield Halls & Woolwich - this could run via the 75 and then via Lee & Kidbrooke |
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Post by sid on Aug 16, 2016 5:39:07 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64. That sums it up perfectly, the 64 could be merged with the 250 at night to save a few buses and it is just ridiculous that there is no night service to Sutton in particular, the withdrawl of the N213 was a cock up of monumental proportions! |
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Post by sid on Aug 16, 2016 5:46:41 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64. I asked TfL ages ago quite why a large swathe of SE Lomdon has no night route at all....I received the usual "we keep the bus network under constant review" reply. Elmers End, South Norwood, Lower Sydenham, Sydenham Road, Catford Hill, Lee ( as opposed to Lee Green), Kidbrooke, all have nothing. I know there's demand because I work in these areas at night. There's many 24/7 establishments open , be it McDonalds, High Street grocers etc. Plenty of people living in these areas live more cosmopolitan 24/7 lifestyles than the typical residents of leafy Teddington, which has 3 night routes .... Crazy !! The usual baloney from TfL, the whole night bus network is somewhat random with one area getting an excessive level of service whilst others have a totally inadequate level of service, there just seems to be no cohesive planning at all. |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 16, 2016 8:52:40 GMT
I haven't ridden the (N)154 yet but I wonder how it is doing. I can see when the night northern line starts it's filling up at Morden station. There was only very limited data (a few weeks worth) in the ridership data TfL released in May. The N154 was the best performing of all of the weekend night routes that were in operation. The new nightly N222 and N238 both got off to a stonking start - over 60,000 jnys each which is higher than several other well established suburban night services' (e.g. N33, N365, N474) annual figures. I'd expect the N222 and N238 to be well over 150k pass jnys for a full year. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 11:20:53 GMT
I haven't ridden the (N)154 yet but I wonder how it is doing. I can see when the night northern line starts it's filling up at Morden station. There was only very limited data (a few weeks worth) in the ridership data TfL released in May. The N154 was the best performing of all of the weekend night routes that were in operation. The new nightly N222 and N238 both got off to a stonking start - over 60,000 jnys each which is higher than several other well established suburban night services' (e.g. N33, N365, N474) annual figures. I'd expect the N222 and N238 to be well over 150k pass jnys for a full year. I've said before, the N33 is crippled at Hammersmith. Not serving the main bus station, and timed badly with arriving N9/N10's. There is precious little intermediate passengers. Needs a rethink I think! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 13:53:28 GMT
And the fact there are 4 night routes between Thornton Heath and Croydon yet nothing to Norwood Junction Selhurst and Wallington and Sutton (bar weekends) seems wasteful. Reintroduce the N75 and run it to New Addington and loose the 24h 64. I asked TfL ages ago quite why a large swathe of SE Lomdon has no night route at all....I received the usual "we keep the bus network under constant review" reply. Elmers End, South Norwood, Lower Sydenham, Sydenham Road, Catford Hill, Lee ( as opposed to Lee Green), Kidbrooke, all have nothing. I know there's demand because I work in these areas at night. There's many 24/7 establishments open , be it McDonalds, High Street grocers etc. Plenty of people living in these areas live more cosmopolitan 24/7 lifestyles than the typical residents of leafy Teddington, which has 3 night routes .... Crazy !! I think the best scenario for that part of London will be a re introduction of 75 night service and a N54 (whole 54 route then 289 to West Croydon then 407 to Sutton) if it's too long then it can be cut to West Croydon or if 54 ever gets extended to Croydon at day time then it can be cut to a 24 hour service and an N726 can serve the western part of the route. and maybe 154 to 24 hours all week but that depends on if the Night Tube will be a success. Although Croydon doesn't need two routes serving Lewisham they both serve different needs 75- South Norwood, Selhurst N54-Elmers End, Addiscombe, Beddington, Carshalton. N726- Beddington, Carshalton etc. |
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Post by l1group on Aug 16, 2016 14:21:01 GMT
There was only very limited data (a few weeks worth) in the ridership data TfL released in May. The N154 was the best performing of all of the weekend night routes that were in operation. The new nightly N222 and N238 both got off to a stonking start - over 60,000 jnys each which is higher than several other well established suburban night services' (e.g. N33, N365, N474) annual figures. I'd expect the N222 and N238 to be well over 150k pass jnys for a full year. I've said before, the N33 is crippled at Hammersmith. Not serving the main bus station, and timed badly with arriving N9/N10's. There is precious little intermediate passengers. Needs a rethink I think! I actually forget the 33N exists and end up using the N22 for that area (which is actually a local night route after a 20min walk). The N9 is actually fairly frequent (minimum every 15 minutes, maximum bunched), but the 10N is a route I rarely can get. The 33N was supposed to replace the N10 to Richmond, so when Hammersmith Bridge (if it is) strengthened, then the N10 could be restored? There is rarely any timed connections with London buses anymore, which is a massive downside (it's not like a whole network is relying on connecting buses (see First Berkshire when the network is downsized again)). I'm in NY, and the transport is a shambles-ish, but the service on the subway itself is debateably better than the tube? (the quality is terrible, and services can be confusing). They also have night services, even on the 2 (3 sometimes) track Flushing line (my local station is 34th-Hudson Yrds). Not all the NY Subway is 4 track. |
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 16, 2016 14:45:27 GMT
I asked TfL ages ago quite why a large swathe of SE Lomdon has no night route at all....I received the usual "we keep the bus network under constant review" reply. Elmers End, South Norwood, Lower Sydenham, Sydenham Road, Catford Hill, Lee ( as opposed to Lee Green), Kidbrooke, all have nothing. I know there's demand because I work in these areas at night. There's many 24/7 establishments open , be it McDonalds, High Street grocers etc. Plenty of people living in these areas live more cosmopolitan 24/7 lifestyles than the typical residents of leafy Teddington, which has 3 night routes .... Crazy !! I think the best scenario for that part of London will be a re introduction of 75 night service and a N54 (whole 54 route then 289 to West Croydon then 407 to Sutton) if it's too long then it can be cut to West Croydon or if 54 ever gets extended to Croydon at day time then it can be cut to a 24 hour service and an N726 can serve the western part of the route. and maybe 154 to 24 hours all week but that depends on if the Night Tube will be a success. Although Croydon doesn't need two routes serving Lewisham they both serve different needs 75- South Norwood, Selhurst N54-Elmers End, Addiscombe, Beddington, Carshalton. N726- Beddington, Carshalton etc. Regardless of the Night Tube being a success or not; a huge chuck of south London is missing important night time links. I rode the N154 shortly after it gained 24 hour weekend status. Needless to say it was very popular; in particular journeys made in the Modern direction but when Night Tube does start, the all round service would be very well used indeed. It's a bit early to start speculation but for local residents who cried out in the consultation for the 154 to be 24/7; the way the route is well loaded before the opening of the Northern line should force TfL's hand into thinking about giving a 24 hour service, 7 days a week. |
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Post by portman227 on Aug 16, 2016 16:25:58 GMT
Route 145 has since gained quieter Euro6 MMCs and I believe 123 will be run from Tottenham (AR). Route W3 can get hybrids off (N)29, I'd like to see route 158 run by Bow with the 205's hybrids (from previous apprehension of WH running night routes e.g. 69 & 238) and the 296 could easily get Euro6 E200 MMCs from route 499 should it stick to single deckers. The 205's hybrids are not quiet buses Much prefer the loudness as it's a lot more thrilling than the ever so dull Euro 5 E40h spec |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 16, 2016 18:50:15 GMT
I'm in NY, and the transport is a shambles-ish, but the service on the subway itself is debateably better than the tube? (the quality is terrible, and services can be confusing). They also have night services, even on the 2 (3 sometimes) track Flushing line (my local station is 34th-Hudson Yrds). Not all the NY Subway is 4 track. It would be nice to get a more rounded "report" from you on New York's public transport once you're back from hols [1] and maybe have a spare moment or two to give us your views. Long time since I've used NYC's public transport including night time subway trains and ending up in the "murder capital" wilds of Brooklyn.  Only I could do that unwittingly. [1] assuming you are on hols, of course. |
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Post by ibus246 on Aug 16, 2016 19:02:20 GMT
I'm in NY, and the transport is a shambles-ish, but the service on the subway itself is debateably better than the tube? (the quality is terrible, and services can be confusing). They also have night services, even on the 2 (3 sometimes) track Flushing line (my local station is 34th-Hudson Yrds). Not all the NY Subway is 4 track. It would be nice to get a more rounded "report" from you on New York's public transport once you're back from hols [1] and maybe have a spare moment or two to give us your views. Long time since I've used NYC's public transport including night time subway trains and ending up in the "murder capital" wilds of Brooklyn. Only I could do that unwittingly. [1] assuming you are on hols, of course. When I went in December, the Subway is used by very many homeless people - not something you would see in London. It's quite gritty but frequent and fast. Lots of buskers actually on the trains also - illegal obviously. I did find the subway system confusing I.e there was a B Line which went via the F Line but only in peaks etc. It wasn't like London where the lines appear simple. The subway card was very good think I paid $31 for a weeks unlimited travel. It's all still paper, no fancy things like Oyster! The stations are very industrial - lots of metal everywhere, the same with the trains. I must admit that the onboard info was great, there was a digital map lit with lights and as the station passed the light would go out - very simple and easy. Ticket fraud seems to be happening a lot with massive turnstiles to access the system and an emergency entrance gate next to it - many were just pushing the bar on the gate and everyone following through. Station design is somewhat very old - a small thing I Noticed being quite meticulous was that there posters are just stuck up with sellotape, no lamination or protective frames. On a plus all their stations had free WiFi. |
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The 123 will definitely be the most interesting route for bus type when respondents practically begged Arriva to ban VLAs running on weekend nights.
Only I could do that unwittingly.