|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 18, 2017 20:32:36 GMT
I wonder if the night bus review is going to take place or has been dropped.
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 18, 2017 20:51:50 GMT
I wonder if the night bus review is going to take place or has been dropped. My guess is that the night bus network has been reviewed but in the context of the financial crisis facing the network. Therefore the fact that the "principle" of cutting services had already been consulted on has been used as a "green light" for a much wider and more brutal reduction on the Night Bus network. The "success" of the Night Tube network is being used as "cover" for a much wider programme of cuts than previously proposed. I don't think anything is going to be published voluntarily because it would hand evidence to the Mayor's opponents. Mayor's Questions or Freedom of Information requests might provoke something but don't hold your breath in the expectation that TfL are going to splurge a load of info into the public domain. I also think the prospect of any expansion of suburban / weekend night routes is pretty much dead in the water. I think we'll be doing well if we hang on to all the weekend routes we currently have. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 18, 2017 20:55:44 GMT
I would really like it if Arriva ran a commercial route from Erith or Bexleyheath out to Dartford and Gravesend. I know they tried recently with the 490 but the timings were wrong ( not connecting with last train at Dartford ) Having been on a "late" am trip on the N89 it picks up a few morning workers down to Erith & Slade Green area. I'm looking forward to someone to do some proper research on night bus travel. Wasn't some lady called Val doing it ? She needs to crack on One of the predecessors of the N89 was a private London Central service which was limited stop all the way out to Gillingham - the NX1. Then that became the N81 (to Crayford, Gravesend at weekends, one journey staggering onto Gillingham?) - I remember that seemed to do a decent trade at New Cross for people going east of Dartford. I haven't used night buses for about 18 months, so my observations may carry even less weight than usual, but in my experience over the years the N89 is generally well-used at weekends at least as far as Sun-in-the-Sands. Cutting it back to every 30 minutes would be a seriously retrograde step. It does seem to me that now we have Night Tube and ar about to get a very limited Night Overground, night bus network needs imaginative rethinking rather than cutting back. I remember the NX1 and N81. I would think the N89 deserves a 15 minute service Friday and Saturday night between New Cross and Erith, I'm not sure the Trafalgar Square section is really needed. I very much agree that the whole nightbus network needs an imaginative overhaul, over provision in some areas and under provision or indeed no night service at all in other areas. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 18, 2017 22:45:15 GMT
I would really like it if Arriva ran a commercial route from Erith or Bexleyheath out to Dartford and Gravesend. I know they tried recently with the 490 but the timings were wrong ( not connecting with last train at Dartford ) Having been on a "late" am trip on the N89 it picks up a few morning workers down to Erith & Slade Green area. I'm looking forward to someone to do some proper research on night bus travel. Wasn't some lady called Val doing it ? She needs to crack on One of the predecessors of the N89 was a private London Central service which was limited stop all the way out to Gillingham - the NX1. Then that became the N81 (to Crayford, Gravesend at weekends, one journey staggering onto Gillingham?) - I remember that seemed to do a decent trade at New Cross for people going east of Dartford. Indeed - it was one journey from Victoria to Gillingham via Trafalgar Square at weekends with the journey from Gillingham getting you as far as Deptford Bridge. Gravesend had two journeys during the week - one from Victoria & one from Trafalgar Square with a few going no further than Crayford  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 8:20:54 GMT
One of the predecessors of the N89 was a private London Central service which was limited stop all the way out to Gillingham - the NX1. Then that became the N81 (to Crayford, Gravesend at weekends, one journey staggering onto Gillingham?) - I remember that seemed to do a decent trade at New Cross for people going east of Dartford. Indeed - it was one journey from Victoria to Gillingham via Trafalgar Square at weekends with the journey from Gillingham getting you as far as Deptford Bridge. Gravesend had two journeys during the week - one from Victoria & one from Trafalgar Square with a few going no further than Crayford There's so many of us out here who work shifts that need to get into London early am, & return late night / early hours of morning. Sunday morning is a nightmare. Lots of 24/7 warehouse jobs on industrial sites between Greenhithe & Dartford as well. Even if the 96 went all night would be great. |
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Sept 19, 2017 23:56:31 GMT
I wonder if the night bus review is going to take place or has been dropped. My guess is that the night bus network has been reviewed but in the context of the financial crisis facing the network. Therefore the fact that the "principle" of cutting services had already been consulted on has been used as a "green light" for a much wider and more brutal reduction on the Night Bus network. The "success" of the Night Tube network is being used as "cover" for a much wider programme of cuts than previously proposed. I don't think anything is going to be published voluntarily because it would hand evidence to the Mayor's opponents. Mayor's Questions or Freedom of Information requests might provoke something but don't hold your breath in the expectation that TfL are going to splurge a load of info into the public domain. I also think the prospect of any expansion of suburban / weekend night routes is pretty much dead in the water. I think we'll be doing well if we hang on to all the weekend routes we currently have. That seems pretty much on the money. Now it's just bus driver talk at the moment but what with cuts to the 176 and N136 quietly being implemented, I'm not minded to dismiss the talk of the 35 being cut from 8bph to 4bph as hearsay. I totally support what's happening north of the river - there is a bit of duplication along the main corridors, combined with Night Tube at weekends it sounds about right to trim down a lot of the frequencies. I rode a late running 00.10 N5 from Edgware to Trafalgar Square on Sunday morning. It didn't pick up a huge number of people but most boarded at the tube stations for short-ish hops. There were a few longer distance riders. I wasn't observing the other direction but I suspect 2bph is about right given the presence of Night Tube. I'm just struggling to comprehend the cuts south of the river. Even if there were less trips from the West End, demand for the N136 shifted out of town and increased when Night Tube hit Vauxhall and Oval - so the response was to cut the frequency to 2bph and exacerbate the crowding off issues along the Camberwell New Road corridor, which were bad enough when it was at 3bph  . I'm one shift worker it affects as my bus home after a late Saturday rail replacement shift at WL sails past with no room to pick anyone up. And the 176 - crowding off was a real problem at 3bph, with 4bph allowing enough space for everyone - so the crowding issues have been reinstated by reverting to 3bph. This recent trend of reducing supply to less than the level of demand on night routes is interesting, when so much resource and publicity is going into attracting people to the day bus network. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 20, 2017 7:46:52 GMT
My guess is that the night bus network has been reviewed but in the context of the financial crisis facing the network. Therefore the fact that the "principle" of cutting services had already been consulted on has been used as a "green light" for a much wider and more brutal reduction on the Night Bus network. The "success" of the Night Tube network is being used as "cover" for a much wider programme of cuts than previously proposed. I don't think anything is going to be published voluntarily because it would hand evidence to the Mayor's opponents. Mayor's Questions or Freedom of Information requests might provoke something but don't hold your breath in the expectation that TfL are going to splurge a load of info into the public domain. I also think the prospect of any expansion of suburban / weekend night routes is pretty much dead in the water. I think we'll be doing well if we hang on to all the weekend routes we currently have. That seems pretty much on the money. Now it's just bus driver talk at the moment but what with cuts to the 176 and N136 quietly being implemented, I'm not minded to dismiss the talk of the 35 being cut from 8bph to 4bph as hearsay. I totally support what's happening north of the river - there is a bit of duplication along the main corridors, combined with Night Tube at weekends it sounds about right to trim down a lot of the frequencies. I rode a late running 00.10 N5 from Edgware to Trafalgar Square on Sunday morning. It didn't pick up a huge number of people but most boarded at the tube stations for short-ish hops. There were a few longer distance riders. I wasn't observing the other direction but I suspect 2bph is about right given the presence of Night Tube. I'm just struggling to comprehend the cuts south of the river. Even if there were less trips from the West End, demand for the N136 shifted out of town and increased when Night Tube hit Vauxhall and Oval - so the response was to cut the frequency to 2bph and exacerbate the crowding off issues along the Camberwell New Road corridor, which were bad enough when it was at 3bph . I'm one shift worker it affects as my bus home after a late Saturday rail replacement shift at WL sails past with no room to pick anyone up. And the 176 - crowding off was a real problem at 3bph, with 4bph allowing enough space for everyone - so the crowding issues have been reinstated by reverting to 3bph. This recent trend of reducing supply to less than the level of demand on night routes is interesting, when so much resource and publicity is going into attracting people to the day bus network. Isn't 8bph on the 35 a bit excessive anyway and will be even more so when the LO service commences? I know about overcrowding between Shoreditch and E&C but are 8bph all the way to Brixton really needed? Extending the 149 to E&C on Friday and Saturday nights would be a far more cost effective solution. The buses saved from the 35 could be redeployed on the 176 which does need a frequency increase and maybe an extension to Croydon giving South Norwood a night bus? I would also suggest extending the 36 to Lewisham on Friday and Saturday night with short workings between Vauxhall and Lewisham giving a x10 minute service on that section for tube passengers. And is there a case for a Friday/Saturday night service on the 185? It would obviously help out both the 36 and 176. |
|
|
|
Post by lwldriver on Sept 20, 2017 8:48:35 GMT
That seems pretty much on the money. Now it's just bus driver talk at the moment but what with cuts to the 176 and N136 quietly being implemented, I'm not minded to dismiss the talk of the 35 being cut from 8bph to 4bph as hearsay. I totally support what's happening north of the river - there is a bit of duplication along the main corridors, combined with Night Tube at weekends it sounds about right to trim down a lot of the frequencies. I rode a late running 00.10 N5 from Edgware to Trafalgar Square on Sunday morning. It didn't pick up a huge number of people but most boarded at the tube stations for short-ish hops. There were a few longer distance riders. I wasn't observing the other direction but I suspect 2bph is about right given the presence of Night Tube. I'm just struggling to comprehend the cuts south of the river. Even if there were less trips from the West End, demand for the N136 shifted out of town and increased when Night Tube hit Vauxhall and Oval - so the response was to cut the frequency to 2bph and exacerbate the crowding off issues along the Camberwell New Road corridor, which were bad enough when it was at 3bph . I'm one shift worker it affects as my bus home after a late Saturday rail replacement shift at WL sails past with no room to pick anyone up. And the 176 - crowding off was a real problem at 3bph, with 4bph allowing enough space for everyone - so the crowding issues have been reinstated by reverting to 3bph. This recent trend of reducing supply to less than the level of demand on night routes is interesting, when so much resource and publicity is going into attracting people to the day bus network. Isn't 8bph on the 35 a bit excessive anyway and will be even more so when the LO service commences? I know about overcrowding between Shoreditch and E&C but are 8bph all the way to Brixton really needed? Extending the 149 to E&C on Friday and Saturday nights would be a far more cost effective solution. The buses saved from the 35 could be redeployed on the 176 which does need a frequency increase and maybe an extension to Croydon giving South Norwood a night bus? I would also suggest extending the 36 to Lewisham on Friday and Saturday night with short workings between Vauxhall and Lewisham for tube passengers. A bit off topic but there really needs to be a night service between Bromley and Sidcup, a quick solution would be to extend the N119 to Sidcup Station or failing that a short extension of the N199 continuing up Leesons Hill to Chislehurst then the 269 route to Sidcup Station or from St Mary Cray Station via Sevenoaks Way following the 51 route to Sidcup Station. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 20, 2017 8:54:19 GMT
I think that would make the N199 too long. Another option could be pull the N3 back to T square (only a small saving I know) then extend it from Bromley to Chislehurst and Sidcup.
|
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 20, 2017 10:01:38 GMT
I think that would make the N199 too long. Another option could be pull the N3 back to T square (only a small saving I know) then extend it from Bromley to Chislehurst and Sidcup. I don't think we need to worry so much about night routes being too long, I've always thought the N199 should be extended the relatively short distance to QM Hospital via the R11 route. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 20, 2017 10:02:44 GMT
I think that would make the N199 too long. Another option could be pull the N3 back to T square (only a small saving I know) then extend it from Bromley to Chislehurst and Sidcup. Didn't the N3 go to Chislehurst at one time? |
|
|
|
Post by lwldriver on Sept 20, 2017 10:25:23 GMT
I think that would make the N199 too long. Another option could be pull the N3 back to T square (only a small saving I know) then extend it from Bromley to Chislehurst and Sidcup. I don't think we need to worry so much about night routes being too long, I've always thought the N199 should be extended the relatively short distance to QM Hospital via the R11 route. Or even Queen Mary's Hosptial, here or Sidcup Station are the only realistic stand opportunities. As you know I am a WL driver but living in Sidcup and regularly out in Bromley, getting home means a cab or timing the last 269 or 314. At least this would mean getting home by bus from when I occasionally work at BC wouldnt be a big problem with the N119 going as far as Bromley North. Look at the N68s length if you think extending the N199 a short distance from St Mary Cray Station to Sidcup (hospital or station) would be a problem, if needed it could use the A20 between Sevenoaks Way and the Frognal Corner roundabout, although not very good for the enivitable Sidcup high street pub kick out, if it misses the high street. The N321 just isn't enough of a night service for Sidcup, if your coming from Bromley or Croydon direction, which as we know have good night scenes and lots of places of employment hospitals etc all of which have staff that require ferrying around. |
|
|
|
Post by lwldriver on Sept 20, 2017 10:27:34 GMT
I don't think we need to worry so much about night routes being too long, I've always thought the N199 should be extended the relatively short distance to QM Hospital via the R11 route. Or even Queen Mary's Hosptial, here or Sidcup Station are the only realistic stand opportunities. As you know I am a WL driver but living in Sidcup and regularly out in Bromley, getting home means a cab or timing the last 269 or 314. At least this would mean getting home by bus from when I occasionally work at BC wouldnt be a big problem with the N119 going as far as Bromley North. Look at the N68s length if you think extending the N199 a short distance from St Mary Cray Station to Sidcup (hospital or station) would be a problem, if needed it could use the A20 between Sevenoaks Way and the Frognal Corner roundabout, although not very good for the enivitable Sidcup high street pub kick out, if it misses the high street. The N321 just isn't enough of a night service for Sidcup, if your coming from Bromley or Croydon direction, which as we know have good night scenes and lots of places of employment hospitals etc all of which have staff that require ferrying around. Additionally extending the N136 to Sidcup wouldn't be a bad idea either it's a case of two miles extra if that but it would benefit a lot more people than in its current state of terminating at the rather deserted war memorial area of Chislehurst. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 20, 2017 10:40:43 GMT
I don't think we need to worry so much about night routes being too long, I've always thought the N199 should be extended the relatively short distance to QM Hospital via the R11 route. Or even Queen Mary's Hosptial, here or Sidcup Station are the only realistic stand opportunities. As you know I am a WL driver but living in Sidcup and regularly out in Bromley, getting home means a cab or timing the last 269 or 314. At least this would mean getting home by bus from when I occasionally work at BC wouldnt be a big problem with the N119 going as far as Bromley North. Look at the N68s length if you think extending the N199 a short distance from St Mary Cray Station to Sidcup (hospital or station) would be a problem, if needed it could use the A20 between Sevenoaks Way and the Frognal Corner roundabout, although not very good for the enivitable Sidcup high street pub kick out, if it misses the high street. The N321 just isn't enough of a night service for Sidcup, if your coming from Bromley or Croydon direction, which as we know have good night scenes and lots of places of employment hospitals etc all of which have staff that require ferrying around. I think extending the N199 would be fine, St Mary Cray is rather in the middle of nowhere at night anyway. I totally agree that the N321 isn't enough for Sidcup, I think the N136 could be extended to Sidcup station and maybe the N119 all the way to Bexleyheath encompassing the 269 route or is that a bit too ambitious? |
|
|
|
Post by lwldriver on Sept 20, 2017 10:58:38 GMT
Or even Queen Mary's Hosptial, here or Sidcup Station are the only realistic stand opportunities. As you know I am a WL driver but living in Sidcup and regularly out in Bromley, getting home means a cab or timing the last 269 or 314. At least this would mean getting home by bus from when I occasionally work at BC wouldnt be a big problem with the N119 going as far as Bromley North. Look at the N68s length if you think extending the N199 a short distance from St Mary Cray Station to Sidcup (hospital or station) would be a problem, if needed it could use the A20 between Sevenoaks Way and the Frognal Corner roundabout, although not very good for the enivitable Sidcup high street pub kick out, if it misses the high street. The N321 just isn't enough of a night service for Sidcup, if your coming from Bromley or Croydon direction, which as we know have good night scenes and lots of places of employment hospitals etc all of which have staff that require ferrying around. I think extending the N199 would be fine, St Mary Cray is rather in the middle of nowhere at night anyway. I totally agree that the N321 isn't enough for Sidcup, I think the N136 could be extended to Sidcup station and maybe the N119 all the way to Bexleyheath encompassing the 269 route or is that a bit too ambitious? Yes good idea, mainly the Bromley to Sidcup link is needed so if it's just N136 then that wouldn't be that good, definitely need the N199 extended or even better would be the N119 night service extension just like what happens on the N148 extended to White City on its night service. Can't see why the N119 could be extended the direct route via the 269 route to Sidcup at least, I think Bexleyheath would be too much of an ask. |
|
. I'm one shift worker it affects as my bus home after a late Saturday rail replacement shift at WL sails past with no room to pick anyone up. And the 176 - crowding off was a real problem at 3bph, with 4bph allowing enough space for everyone - so the crowding issues have been reinstated by reverting to 3bph.