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Post by WH241 on Dec 9, 2022 20:08:06 GMT
I agree with the District Line being 24-hours on a weekend, if it was to happen. I think these routes would become a 24 hour weekend route: 147 337 370 110 D8 276 241 The 241 carries fresh out at night even more soon since the rerouteing. I can't see the 147 going 24 hours either it serves very residential back roads and wouldn't be popular! Custom House - Cannjng Town already has two night routes I certainly wouldn't fancy a third night route in my local area, |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 9, 2022 22:24:30 GMT
I agree with the District Line being 24-hours on a weekend, if it was to happen. I think these routes would become a 24 hour weekend route: 147 337 370 110 D8 276 241 The 241 carries fresh out at night even more soon since the rerouteing. I can't see the 147 going 24 hours either it serves very residential back roads and wouldn't be popular! Custom House - Cannjng Town already has two night routes I certainly wouldn't fancy a third night route in my local area, Surely the 337 is covered largely by the N33 even more so whilst the bridge is closed and it reaches Putney. |
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Post by dominic on Dec 10, 2022 23:32:25 GMT
Oh yeah, bc there's already 474 and N551
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Post by dominic on Dec 10, 2022 23:52:32 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?:
My guesses are:
50
101
106
110
120
125
127
156
157
161
196
221
230
270
275
280
293
308
323
328
340
384
444
470
C10
C11
D8
H12
feel free to nominate your routes.
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 11, 2022 6:55:43 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?: My guesses are: 50 101 106 110 120 125 127 156 157 161 196 221 230 270 275 280 293 308 323 328 340 384 444 470 C10 C11 D8 H12 feel free to nominate your routes. The 50 is largely covered by the 250, N109/N137. 280 as well with the N44 covering about 75% already. |
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Post by abellion on Dec 11, 2022 12:18:11 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?: My guesses are: 50 101 106 110 120 125 127 156 157 161 196 221 230 270 275 280 293 308 323 328 340 384 444 470 C10 C11 D8 H12 feel free to nominate your routes. Why would routes like the 156, 270, 280 and 328 which are 90-100% paralleled by night routes be chosen? Also I really can’t see the 127 or 157 being looked at. TfL are removing the 154’s latest departures, the 75N was withdrawn already for low usage and the 213N’s usage is abysmal - TfL has little incentive to bother with orbital night buses in the south. Even usually busy routes like the 64, 85 and 93 pick up significantly less overnight compared to routes in other parts of London. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 11, 2022 12:35:53 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?: My guesses are: 50 101 106 110 120 125 127 156 157 161 196 221 230 270 275 280 293 308 323 328 340 384 444 470 C10 C11 D8 H12 feel free to nominate your routes. Why would routes like the 156, 270, 280 and 328 which are 90-100% paralleled by night routes be chosen? Also I really can’t see the 127 or 157 being looked at. TfL are removing the 154’s latest departures, the 75N was withdrawn already for low usage and the 213N’s usage is abysmal - TfL has little incentive to bother with orbital night buses in the south. Even usually busy routes like the 64, 85 and 93 pick up significantly less overnight compared to routes in other parts of London. Maybe that latter point is purely South London night bus coverage is so poor compared to other areas. Some night routes run at 7.5bph. If you have a 30 minute service which you can't rely on to turn up, you are never going to attract much custom. If you could rely on it to turn up when it is supposed to, things might be diferent. To be honest I am at age where my need for night bus network is nearly non-existant, but it has always been poor, which provides little incentive to use it and look at alternatives. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 11, 2022 13:02:56 GMT
When you break down figures of a route carrying 50,000 passengers a year (I think the 213 carries 45k a year) is divided by 364 nights is 137 passengers a night split on both directions is 68 spread over up to 8 journeys on a 30 min freq is as little as 8.5 passengers per journey.
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Post by londonbuses on Dec 11, 2022 16:39:21 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?: My guesses are: 50 101 106 110 120 125 127 156 157 161 196 221 230 270 275 280 293 308 323 328 340 384 444 470 C10 C11 D8 H12 feel free to nominate your routes. The 110 is mostly duplicated by the N9, 65, N22, N33, 281 and 111. The 270 is fully duplicated by the N44 and 220. The 280 fully duplicates the N44 apart from Sutton to Belmont, which should be an extension of the N44 (which wouldn't require a higher PVR so not sure why it hasn't already been done). The 470, as much as I think it's a good idea, TfL don't even give the route a (much needed) evening or Sunday service, so there is no chance of it ever being 24 hours. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 11, 2022 17:58:56 GMT
If TFL added more routes to the 24-hour Weekend Service for Night Tube, what would be the routes?: My guesses are: 50 101 106 110 120 125 127 156 157 161 196 221 230 270 275 280 293 308 323 328 340 384 444 470 C10 C11 D8 H12 feel free to nominate your routes. The 110 is mostly duplicated by the N9, 65, N22, N33, 281 and 111. The 270 is fully duplicated by the N44 and 220. The 280 fully duplicates the N44 apart from Sutton to Belmont, which should be an extension of the N44 (which wouldn't require a higher PVR so not sure why it hasn't already been done). The 470, as much as I think it's a good idea, TfL don't even give the route a (much needed) evening or Sunday service, so there is no chance of it ever being 24 hours. I agree about the N44. The 280 only takes 4 mins so the N44 no more then 3 for the extra mile at night and would serve quite a few blocks of flats and residential roads off Brighton Road aswell as the Royal Marsden. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 11, 2022 18:52:21 GMT
The 110 is mostly duplicated by the N9, 65, N22, N33, 281 and 111. The 270 is fully duplicated by the N44 and 220. The 280 fully duplicates the N44 apart from Sutton to Belmont, which should be an extension of the N44 (which wouldn't require a higher PVR so not sure why it hasn't already been done). The 470, as much as I think it's a good idea, TfL don't even give the route a (much needed) evening or Sunday service, so there is no chance of it ever being 24 hours. I agree about the N44. The 280 only takes 4 mins so the N44 no more then 3 for the extra mile at night and would serve quite a few blocks of flats and residential roads off Brighton Road aswell as the Royal Marsden. I disagree about the 280/N44. A lot of the population in the Belmont area fall under three categories: wealthy, elderly and families. There are many that cross these categories. My point is though that there is really high car ownership in the southern part of Sutton, a night service would be under utilised and would frankly be a waste of money. The demographic just aren’t reliant on public transport, it’s why there are so few routes serving those back roads in the evenings and Sundays, just so little demand. Perhaps when the hospital opens in 2027 the situation might change as medical professionals will want to live in the area but right now it isn’t needed. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 11, 2022 19:02:11 GMT
I agree about the N44. The 280 only takes 4 mins so the N44 no more then 3 for the extra mile at night and would serve quite a few blocks of flats and residential roads off Brighton Road aswell as the Royal Marsden. I disagree about the 280/N44. A lot of the population in the Belmont area fall under three categories: wealthy, elderly and families. There are many that cross these categories. My point is though that there is really high car ownership in the southern part of Sutton, a night service would be under utilised and would frankly be a waste of money. The demographic just aren’t reliant on public transport, it’s why there are so few routes serving those back roads in the evenings and Sundays, just so little demand. Perhaps when the hospital opens in 2027 the situation might change as medical professionals will want to live in the area but right now it isn’t needed. I think this is why the night network is more concentrated on Inner London because those in the outer parts have a lot more scope when it comes to making alternative arrangements in the shape of the aforementioned demographic. It's why baring somewhere like Havering, I can't see much scope for sizeable expansion of the night network in Outer London |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 11, 2022 19:10:48 GMT
I disagree about the 280/N44. A lot of the population in the Belmont area fall under three categories: wealthy, elderly and families. There are many that cross these categories. My point is though that there is really high car ownership in the southern part of Sutton, a night service would be under utilised and would frankly be a waste of money. The demographic just aren’t reliant on public transport, it’s why there are so few routes serving those back roads in the evenings and Sundays, just so little demand. Perhaps when the hospital opens in 2027 the situation might change as medical professionals will want to live in the area but right now it isn’t needed. I think this is why the night network is more concentrated on Inner London because those in the outer parts have a lot more scope when it comes to making alternative arrangements in the shape of the aforementioned demographic. It's why baring somewhere like Havering, I can't see much scope for sizeable expansion of the night network in Outer London I agree, the night bus network should get you to a centralised location where you can either continue your journey by car or walking. It simply cannot cater for every need, it’s impossible. I suspect the night network will be a major target for money saving in years to come. |
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Post by uakari on Dec 13, 2022 18:34:01 GMT
I think this is why the night network is more concentrated on Inner London because those in the outer parts have a lot more scope when it comes to making alternative arrangements in the shape of the aforementioned demographic. It's why baring somewhere like Havering, I can't see much scope for sizeable expansion of the night network in Outer London I agree, the night bus network should get you to a centralised location where you can either continue your journey by car or walking. It simply cannot cater for every need, it’s impossible. I suspect the night network will be a major target for money saving in years to come. I think it's pretty unusual for people anywhere to go out in central London, return part of the way by night bus and have parked somewhere to then take their own car, even if they are sober. I think the issue is more night bus routes being traditionally centered on Trafalgar Square so that their density peters out as you get further from there. That's why the orbital night routes connecting with tube stations in outer London are a good thing that I hope can come back and be enhanced. The idea that inner London is poor and reliant on buses and outer London is rich and reliant on cars is becoming a bit old fashioned, especially as property prices and housing scarcity push more people to the suburbs. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 13, 2022 19:18:00 GMT
I agree, the night bus network should get you to a centralised location where you can either continue your journey by car or walking. It simply cannot cater for every need, it’s impossible. I suspect the night network will be a major target for money saving in years to come. I think it's pretty unusual for people anywhere to go out in central London, return part of the way by night bus and have parked somewhere to then take their own car, even if they are sober. I think the issue is more night bus routes being traditionally centered on Trafalgar Square so that their density peters out as you get further from there. That's why the orbital night routes connecting with tube stations in outer London are a good thing that I hope can come back and be enhanced. The idea that inner London is poor and reliant on buses and outer London is rich and reliant on cars is becoming a bit old fashioned, especially as property prices and housing scarcity push more people to the suburbs. I can’t see the night network surviving as it is or even growing. I think there will be a greater focus on later and early journeys for existing day routes over key corridors but not necessarily night routes. So where as a route might finish at 12.30am an extra journey could be worked in place of a night route. It isn’t as simple as poor vs rich, car usage is much higher in the outer boroughs than the inner ones. But as I said the night network cannot cater to the small demand of isolated journeys. It has to be centralised where journeys can be continued onwards by various means of travel. Orbital routes are great but a strong night network needs a strong night economy, something which has been decimated COVID and isn’t likely to return anytime soon with the weak economy and a greater focus on people working more sociable hours. Even where I am a route like the N213 may not survive because of the dwindling nightclub scene in Kingston and nonexistent one in Sutton. Perhaps if Amy Lame got off her arse and focused her lacklustre efforts London wide we wouldn’t be seeing outer boroughs losing out to the central zones during the night. £117k she earns and she does f**k all. |
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