Bus photography for a newbie...

[Nathan]

I'm thinking of joining in on the whole bus photography thing. But there are a couple of things that I need help on.

I pretty much know nothing about cameras. Even though I have an interest in computing, I've never really taken a keen eye to digital imaging etc. So I really have no idea on what camera to buy. I know the bare basics about cameras...such as megapixels, HDR, OIS. I've been doing a bit of research, and I believe the best one for me to use (which I think is also used by many others on here) is a DSLR camera, whatever that is. My budget is VERY low. Preferably below £100. I know I won't be able to get anything brand new and fancy, but I'm planning to buy second hand anyway. I just need a rough guide about what I should buy, and any other accessories I may need.

I also need to know about the legals too. What am I allowed to do when taking pictures of buses? What am I not allowed to do? Are there any particular laws that I am protected by? Do I need to edit the pictures I take in some way?

Thanks for helping a brother out guys .

[l1group]

I'd always think you should rarely go straight onto a DSLR camera - go gradually from a phone, through a compact camera and a bridge camera (looks like a DSLR, still lens permanently attached) with viewfinder to a full DSLR. This allows to get a feel of better cameras throughout. I went from disposable camera via four compacts to a DSLR, as I came from the era without good phone cameras. A DSLR includes a viewfinder, a detachable lens. Usually, the 'kit' lens that comes with a camera is 18-55mm (about 3x zoom) - use automatic focus initially (I use manual focus because it's better). That'd be it, and eventually

Megapixels - how much quality the photo has when blown up to larger size (brutally, I don't know the actual meaning), but due to the internet (btw - use flickr to upload photos), I'd say about 10MP can be fine initially, but the higher the number, the better.

Laws - well, the police cannot delete your photos, you do not really need to edit photos unless it includes undercover police (thus censor number plate), there is somewhere some guidance about photographers somewhere on the internet.

Usually, photos are released under copyright (my older photos are released under that) where you are sole holder of the licence of the photo, and only people you allow can use the photo with permission and credit. My photos are released in Creative Commons, which allows people to release the photo without permission, so as long as the author has credit and it is shared with the same licence. I do that so anyone who wants to use my photos can do so - I've seen news articles with my photos which does seem quite good.

MODS - a question, is this in the correct section?

[DT 11]

Jul 4, 2014 0:40:03 GMT Nathan said:

I'm thinking of joining in on the whole bus photography thing. But there are a couple of things that I need help on.

I pretty much know nothing about cameras. Even though I have an interest in computing, I've never really taken a keen eye to digital imaging etc. So I really have no idea on what camera to buy. I know the bare basics about cameras...such as megapixels, HDR, OIS. I've been doing a bit of research, and I believe the best one for me to use (which I think is also used by many others on here) is a DSLR camera, whatever that is. My budget is VERY low. Preferably below £100. I know I won't be able to get anything brand new and fancy, but I'm planning to buy second hand anyway. I just need a rough guide about what I should buy, and any other accessories I may need.

I also need to know about the legals too. What am I allowed to do when taking pictures of buses? What am I not allowed to do? Are there any particular laws that I am protected by? Do I need to edit the pictures I take in some way?

Thanks for helping a brother out guys .

If your budget is low and you want to learn I suggest using something small, that I how I started, but tbh everyone has their own story and journey, when I first started taking pictures I actually didn't know how to take pictures at all. A DSLR costs around £300+ and to start off with it is a big step in my opinion. The best DSLRs are Canons and Nikons I would give no other recommendations.

One thing I strongly advise is Martin Ruthes Sunshine Locations and Sun Cal and start learning how to work with the Sun. A particular Facebook group that I am on also gave me Ideas on how to photo better.

I started off using a mini camera which I used to carry with me all the time. I've always liked rare & non allocated workings regardless of how common or rare they are mainly in South London and always liked to capture them whenever I can.

One thing I will advise is enjoy what you do and don't let any idiot person tell you otherwise, since I removed myself from a particular "bad circle" of enthusiasts which I found talk about dislikes on all subjects on the hobby as well as past it, plus argue over nonsense which is really pointless... After a while I started meeting people who actually have proper interests in the subject and rid of the negatives.

There are critics, but two types of Critic.
1. The ones who have been taking photos for years, Work with the Sun and normally have DSLRs, these people will criticise, but normally try to help you out

2. Ones who don't take pictures, they will call your image every bad word under the sun, but will never actually go out there and take a picture themselves or have no experience or have no understanding themselves. Stay away from idiots like this.... I like to call them toxic negatives...

[ServerKing]

I bought a good camera from Tesco Extra, it's from the Fujifilm range. It's a decent first SLR Digital camera
www.tesco.com/direct/fuji-sl1000-digital-camera-black-16mp-digital-zoom-upto-100x3-lcd-full-hd-1080p-video/617-3153.prd?skuId=617-3153
and it's £200. I'm sure they do a cheaper one, I've seen stuff there for the price of a pair of decent trainers (£120)... also bear in mind customer
service in Tesco's digital dept is as rare as the 375 bus, so it might be good to read up on their website first. Currys PC World also do a decent range,
but you don't need their warranty Coverplan, its a pile of poo.

If you can, use a watermark to put your name on your stuff, something some members fail to do...

Looking forward to your Arriva bus pics I can use in my edits... Just joking

[snoggle]

I think you will struggle to find a decent DSLR camera body and lens for £100. Therefore you've got a couple of choices - build up your budget somewhat even if it means waiting for a few months while you save some more cash. Alternatively consider opting for a different form of camera if you can't wait.

I'm very much a traditionalist with a big bulky DSLR which cost a lot of money but I've worked my way up from simpler cameras. When I started with film there was really only SLRs and I'm used to having a viewfinder which limits my choice of camera these days. I find it almost impossible to use smaller cameras where you have to use the rear screen to frame a shot but that's just me.

I wholeheartedly agree with learning about sunshine / light and positions. That helps frame a better shot even when it's cloudy it helps to know where the light is coming from as the camera will always find shadows even if you can't see them with your eyes! Sometimes you have to shoot into the sun or end up with shadows to get a shot so don't be unduly hung up about it. The recent cavalcade in Regents St was an example where you just had to put up with shooting into the sun. I will admit to getting a bit cross with some photos on Flickr where shots are badly framed with camera shake and shot into the sun. This is from people who've taken thousands of shots and never improved. It doesn't take much to learn the basics.

I'd make sure you budget in the cost of some photo editing software as that allows you to deal with dodgy light, minor camera shake and wonky photos. I find I end up with "wonky" shots these days so I need to straighten them up. I'd also learn from the start to properly manage your photographs - I've got old film prints and slides where I've got no idea where I shot them or when. Processing your photos after downloading them and filing them properly will be a big help later on. Modern cameras obviously record loads of data with the photos (EXIF data) which can help. Also don't forget to have a data backup for your photos - one disadvantage of modern photography is the risk of data loss because hard drives in computers or external drives can fail at a moment's notice.

I tend to take photos on my own so I don't have the negativity of constant criticism from fellow photographers. It's obviously up to you how you take on this new hobby but find your own style and concentrate on getting the basics right - it'll take a bit of time. I'm a very conventional photographer as I don't do the "crazy angle" style of photographer but we all have our style and they're actually all valid. I like to get a street scene shot if I can rather than the "offside 3/4s view" so loved of bus photographers. Buses are supposed to carry people so it's always good to get them with people in view or getting on at stops. My favourite night bus shots are those where you can see people getting on the bus. The nicest old photos to look back on are those with buildings, people and cars because it's those things which change over time. Flickr and Smugmug have a good spread of bus photographers on them for inspiration.

It is important to be familiar with the law. This is a good guide. I reserve all my rights with my photos as I value the copyright which I hold. I've only been published a couple of times but I've been approached a fair number of times from magazines or websites to use my shots. If they won't pay then they don't get to use my shots. They're commercial organisations and should pay other people for their efforts rather than wanting stuff for free. You may take a different view and you can license the use of your photos - Creative Commons is one such method.

Finally I would encourage you to use a good camera store for your purchases. I have used Park Cameras for years and they now have a London branch off Oxford St. They'll be happy to take you through the capabilities of different cameras and formats if you tell them what photography you want to do. They're competitive on prices and hold some second hand stock - a quick look has a Canon EOS1000 for £99 but I suspect that's the body only, no lens.

[vjaska]

I'm most likely repeating what's been said above but it's definitely better to start with something small like a iPhone/Samsung Galaxy (I actually got a pic published that was taken with an iPhone 5) or a digital compact camera - quite a few digital compact cameras over 10mp are now brand new under £100 unlike when I started eight years ago - I'm still on an old Kodak C713 with 7mp (ancient I know lol) but I'm replacing it soon. Once you've got more assured, then move up to the next stage.

The sun locations is indeed important (any chance the list could be made available here?) but also, it's important to study where your going to take pictures no matter the weather. It best to find spots where street furniture is not going to invade your shots by blocking the bus you were snapping.

[snoggle]

Jul 4, 2014 10:00:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'm most likely repeating what's been said above but it's definitely better to start with something small like a iPhone/Samsung Galaxy (I actually got a pic published that was taken with an iPhone 5) or a digital compact camera - quite a few digital compact cameras over 10mp are now brand new under £100 unlike when I started eight years ago - I'm still on an old Kodak C713 with 7mp (ancient I know lol) but I'm replacing it soon. Once you've got more assured, then move up to the next stage.

The sun locations is indeed important (any chance the list could be made available here?) but also, it's important to study where your going to take pictures no matter the weather. It best to find spots where street furniture is not going to invade your shots by blocking the bus you were snapping.

Google is your friend - Sunshine Locations

[snoggle]

Jul 4, 2014 0:40:03 GMT Nathan said:

I'm thinking of joining in on the whole bus photography thing. But there are a couple of things that I need help on.

I pretty much know nothing about cameras.

I see that Park Cameras are offering Canon Test Runs at their London store. Might help you chose a camera or at least get a feel for the different ones.

[Nathan]

Thank you for all the advice guys I'll take the general advice, and start of with something small (being my 8MP Nexus 4). To be honest, I remember trying to take a picture of E98 on the 171 at night once, but it just completely failed lol. So I guess I need more practice anyway.

So what about taking pictures with low light? Is it easier than taking pictures in sunlight? snoggle, I'm sure you can shed some light on this(?)

[vjaska]

Jul 4, 2014 11:15:58 GMT Nathan said:

Thank you for all the advice guys I'll take the general advice, and start of with something small (being my 8MP Nexus 4). To be honest, I remember trying to take a picture of E98 on the 171 at night once, but it just completely failed lol. So I guess I need more practice anyway.

So what about taking pictures with low light? Is it easier than taking pictures in sunlight? snoggle, I'm sure you can shed some light on this(?)

Taking pics in sunlight is far easier due to the abundance of light - lowlight is incredible difficult, you'll need a very good camera for that. A good SLR is most likely required for night shots.

[snoggle]

Jul 4, 2014 11:15:58 GMT Nathan said:

Thank you for all the advice guys I'll take the general advice, and start of with something small (being my 8MP Nexus 4). To be honest, I remember trying to take a picture of E98 on the 171 at night once, but it just completely failed lol. So I guess I need more practice anyway.

So what about taking pictures with low light? Is it easier than taking pictures in sunlight? snoggle, I'm sure you can shed some light on this(?)

Well one big area of technological development with digital cameras as been low light performance. This typically means higher ISO (film speed) settings on cameras. Top end cameras go up to crazy numbers like 256,000 but even small cameras will get you to 2,000 or 3,200. The one issue is that the higher the ISO the great the risk of poorer definition / blurring. You obviously also have to cope with slower shutter speeds as light levels are lower so you must be very steady or else support yourself against a wall or lamp post to reduce the risk of camera shake. Typically a higher ISO value will give you greater range on shutter speeds.

I do take night bus shots - next adventure possibly this weekend - but they nearly all have to be still shots, not moving. I do have a good quality lens on my camera which helps with the shot definition but I don't have massively high ISO capability. The issue, as ever, is to simply try. Shooting in Central London usually means there is decent street lighting which helps with the overall light in a shot.

Sunlight usually gives much more scope to get a good shot than low light or the night. However there's little need to be put off by low light or shooting at night. It's just another environment to learn about. It's the same thing with shooting in the rain - clearly you have to protect your camera but rain creates a certain feel to shots so it's worth doing too. Wet roads, lights and the dark give all sorts of possibilities for reflections and interesting photos. After all it does rain in the UK so shooting in the rain just conveys reality. Same applies to shooting in Winter - there's a different quality to the light because the sun is lower but the lack of leaves on trees gives options you may not have in Summer where there may be impenetrable gloom because of shadows.

[Deleted]

Jul 4, 2014 10:00:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'm most likely repeating what's been said above but it's definitely better to start with something small like a iPhone/Samsung Galaxy (I actually got a pic published that was taken with an iPhone 5) or a digital compact camera - quite a few digital compact cameras over 10mp are now brand new under £100 unlike when I started eight years ago - I'm still on an old Kodak C713 with 7mp (ancient I know lol) but I'm replacing it soon. Once you've got more assured, then move up to the next stage.

The sun locations is indeed important (any chance the list could be made available here?) but also, it's important to study where your going to take pictures no matter the weather. It best to find spots where street furniture is not going to invade your shots by blocking the bus you were snapping.

With an iPhone5, is it difficult to take pictures in sunshine/darkness?

[vjaska]

Jul 4, 2014 12:32:05 GMT @mwhite43306 said:

Jul 4, 2014 10:00:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'm most likely repeating what's been said above but it's definitely better to start with something small like a iPhone/Samsung Galaxy (I actually got a pic published that was taken with an iPhone 5) or a digital compact camera - quite a few digital compact cameras over 10mp are now brand new under £100 unlike when I started eight years ago - I'm still on an old Kodak C713 with 7mp (ancient I know lol) but I'm replacing it soon. Once you've got more assured, then move up to the next stage.

The sun locations is indeed important (any chance the list could be made available here?) but also, it's important to study where your going to take pictures no matter the weather. It best to find spots where street furniture is not going to invade your shots by blocking the bus you were snapping.

With an iPhone5, is it difficult to take pictures in sunshine/darkness?

I found darkness can be an issue but I have taken one decent pic in the darkness before so I reckon it can be done. With sunlight, the camera becomes really great - I tend to use it for sun shots over my digital camera because they simply come out much better (my digital camera admittedly is rubbish though lol) and the editing tool that comes with the iPhone 5 gives a few touch up techniques to play with to make the picture look that little bit more lovely. I was genuinely so shocked at how good the camera was on the phone.

[John tuthill]

Jul 4, 2014 12:32:05 GMT @mwhite43306 said:

Jul 4, 2014 10:00:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'm most likely repeating what's been said above but it's definitely better to start with something small like a iPhone/Samsung Galaxy (I actually got a pic published that was taken with an iPhone 5) or a digital compact camera - quite a few digital compact cameras over 10mp are now brand new under £100 unlike when I started eight years ago - I'm still on an old Kodak C713 with 7mp (ancient I know lol) but I'm replacing it soon. Once you've got more assured, then move up to the next stage.

The sun locations is indeed important (any chance the list could be made available here?) but also, it's important to study where your going to take pictures no matter the weather. It best to find spots where street furniture is not going to invade your shots by blocking the bus you were snapping.

With an iPhone5, is it difficult to take pictures in sunshine/darkness?

If you're taking photos in London, dress like a tourist, and speak English with a foreign accent-they'll(the fuzz)will leave you alone.
Can't remember what thread I recounted my own experiences when I was with my young grandson, but I lost all my respect for the Met that day, and I'm 67

[Nathan]

Okay, so I've started my little Photography hobby today and created a new Flickr account: www.flickr.com/photos/125738580@N07/

I've been playing about with a few of the editing tools Flickr has to offer to try and make my pictures a little better than how they came out (they weren't the best, especially with my 8MP phone camera). After a few trial and errors I realised that HDR mode is really not suited for fast moving objects. That, and I need to get my timing right. I'd like to know what you guys think of my first few shots on Waterloo Bridge.