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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 13:12:20 GMT
It seems a shame to me that buses don't seem to be around for longer than about 10 Years if that sometimes before a contract renewal calls for new buses. There must be a lot of ex London buses on the second-hand market? Do they all get snapped up quick? I've always known that this city is very hard on its buses but i think 15 years should at least be got out of a bus with a midlife refurb?
What do you all think?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 6, 2014 13:27:30 GMT
It seems a shame to me that buses don't seem to be around for longer than about 10 Years if that sometimes before a contract renewal calls for new buses. There must be a lot of ex London buses on the second-hand market? Do they all get snapped up quick? I've always known that this city is very hard on its buses but i think 15 years should at least be got out of a bus with a midlife refurb? What do you all think? 15 years seems fine to me, secondhand buses are generally brought by provincial operators although I suspect a particular person will say that isn't the case. Over the last few years, there has been an increase due to this need of accelerating the demise of Euro II & III engined buses but that won't stop provincial operators from buying secondhand London buses - it's generally less risky than buying from other provincial operators where maintenance can be extremely shoddy, even worse than the likes of DT lol. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 6, 2014 14:12:22 GMT
It seems a shame to me that buses don't seem to be around for longer than about 10 Years if that sometimes before a contract renewal calls for new buses. There must be a lot of ex London buses on the second-hand market? Do they all get snapped up quick? I've always known that this city is very hard on its buses but i think 15 years should at least be got out of a bus with a midlife refurb? What do you all think? Depends on how the buses are looked after imo. There are a lot of worn and tired vehicles in service. Plus some vehicles may even be leased.... I couldn't imagine the state of the DLAs if they were still in use on the 160 today... they would be probably getting replaced with EX 38 DWs now lol. |
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Post by Connor on Jul 6, 2014 14:18:44 GMT
Until nine years ago, we still had 50 year old Routemasters in London operation...remember that!   |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 6, 2014 14:20:49 GMT
Until nine years ago, we still had 50 year old Routemasters in London operation...remember that! A lot better built than newer vehicles along with RTs. I would be laughing if an E200 lasted 50 Years  |
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Post by Connor on Jul 6, 2014 14:23:07 GMT
I couldn't imagine the state of the DLAs if they were still in use on the 160 today... DLA's could have done with a better maintenance + a mechanical overhaul, an occasional retrim and repaint just isn't good enough...that's why were seeing relatively young S reg DLAs being scrapped! Until nine years ago, we still had 50 year old Routemasters in London operation...remember that! A lot better built than newer vehicles along with RTs. I would be laughing if an E200 lasted 50 Years Anything built after 2006 or by Scania/Optare will NOT last 50 years! |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 6, 2014 14:37:21 GMT
I couldn't imagine the state of the DLAs if they were still in use on the 160 today... DLA's could have done with a better maintenance + a mechanical overhaul, an occasional retrim and repaint just isn't good enough...that's why were seeing relatively young S reg DLAs being scrapped! A lot better built than newer vehicles along with RTs. I would be laughing if an E200 lasted 50 Years Anything built after 2006 or by Scania/Optare will NOT last 50 years! Lol I can agree with that lol. Probably 10-14 years and probably less for some lol. |
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 6, 2014 15:54:50 GMT
As long as DLA243 I guess, but anything East Lancs/Optare, half that time  As long as it looks fairly presentable... Some of the stuff on the 235 is showing it's age but still looks in fairly good nick. We bus users get a very good deal compared to some of the junk on our railways... and even then, it's just painted a different colour by the next operator, not replaced |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 6, 2014 16:17:26 GMT
As long as DLA243 I guess, but anything East Lancs/Optare, half that time As long as it looks fairly presentable... Some of the stuff on the 235 is showing it's age but still looks in fairly good nick. We bus users get a very good deal compared to some of the junk on our railways... and even then, it's just painted a different colour by the next operator, not replaced 8053 from WS when I got on it on the 484 earlier this year was in really good condition. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2014 16:34:31 GMT
I think there is much more of a push towards 12-14/15 years service these days for London kit. That's part of TfL squeezing more VFM out of the operator's assets. There are only a few places in the UK where most of the fleet will be used for 16-18 hours daily service and London is one of those for most of the network. Most deregulated areas will see a lower peak roll out than in London with negligible enhancement to the PVR on routes. Most buses will be lucky to see 9-10 hours service so perhaps it's no great shock that buses are forced to run for closer to 20 years outside London. It's a less stressed operating environment.
The other factor looming large in London which is forcing divestment of older vehicles is emissions. It's arguable, IMO, whether tinkering with the bus fleet's emissions standards is making a big contribution to air quality. The bigger issue is car and van use and the Mayor is not minded to attack that problem head on so instead we see more hybrid and all electric buses coming. The Mayor can boast about buying new buses but I've never heard a statement that says how much air quality has improved as a result of the spending.
I'm not unduly fussed about new vs old *provided* the buses are clean, give a reasonable ride quality and can travel fast enough to pull a skin off a rice pudding. They also need to be maintained to be safe. Unfortunately some operators push the boundaries somewhat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 18:35:06 GMT
Until nine years ago, we still had 50 year old Routemasters in London operation...remember that! Cynic in me says if ADL/Optare/Wrightbus et al built buses that could last 50 years economically then they'd kill off their entire market! lol |
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 6, 2014 18:42:56 GMT
I think there is much more of a push towards 12-14/15 years service these days for London kit. That's part of TfL squeezing more VFM out of the operator's assets. There are only a few places in the UK where most of the fleet will be 16-18 hours service and London is one of those for most of the network. Most deregulated areas will see a lower peak roll out than in London with negligible enhancement to the PVR on routes. Most buses will be lucky to see 9-10 hours service so perhaps it's no great shock that buses are forced to run for closer to 20 years outside London. It's a less stressed operating environment. The other factor looming large in London which is forcing divestment of older vehicles is emissions. It's arguable, IMO, whether tinkering with the bus fleet's emissions standards is making a big contribution to air quality. The bigger issue is car and van use and the Mayor is not minded to attack that problem head on so instead we see more hybrid and all electric buses coming. The Mayor can boast about buying new buses but I've never heard a statement that says how much air quality has improved as a result of the spending. I'm not unduly fussed about new vs old *provided* the buses are clean, give a reasonable ride quality and can travel fast enough to pull a skin off a rice pudding. They also need to be maintained to be safe. Unfortunately some operators push the boundaries somewhat. Yes, dirty cars and vans are my pet peeve... especially as someone who suffers with hay fever and allergies... One trend some motorists are using is called 'DPF Delete' where one takes the diesel particulate filter from the exhaust because they won't pay £800 or so for a new one, so all the nasties that would have been caught by the filter now goes into the lungs of the nearest pedestrian or cyclist... Lots of tradesmen do this as well to their vans, but thankfully DVSA who took over from VOSA outlawed it, so hopefully with whatever police we have left, random roadside checks could reduce this further... especially in (cough) Marylebone and Edgware Road where the pollution is at its zenith  Even Tottenham's DLA231 with its missing silencer in its last few days of service was cleaner than some of the vans on the road, especially some from overseas which may not be tested as well as here New buses is nice, but some of the better, stronger ones like the DLAs could have been re engined. Smiles Engineering in the northeast re engined all the ex London DLPs with Euro5 engines for The Original Tour... I think any lower pollution realistically is a bus we'll never catch... businesses, plus their vehicles are London's lifeblood so they have to see how they play this one.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 19:08:12 GMT
The other factor looming large in London which is forcing divestment of older vehicles is emissions. It's arguable, IMO, whether tinkering with the bus fleet's emissions standards is making a big contribution to air quality. The bigger issue is car and van use and the Mayor is not minded to attack that problem head on so instead we see more hybrid and all electric buses coming. Mind you, this is the same Mayor that cancelled a larger order for hydorgen full cell buses. |
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