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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 13:27:43 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Oct 10, 2014 14:26:06 GMT
I see they have revised the front design by making the front windscreen a lot less circular shaped which means it's looks better looks wise. One thing I have to quibble though is they say they will get 40 years service from them yet the 1992 stock on the Central Line is only 22 years old and they'll be replaced by these new trains in around 6-8 years time - years ago, stock would be built to last but not these days. The 1992 stock are good trains though I suspect a load of people will now disagree with that. |
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 10, 2014 23:57:57 GMT
I see they have revised the front design by making the front windscreen a lot less circular shaped which means it's looks better looks wise. One thing I have to quibble though is they say they will get 40 years service from them yet the 1992 stock on the Central Line is only 22 years old and they'll be replaced by these new trains in around 6-8 years time - years ago, stock would be built to last but not these days. The 1992 stock are good trains though I suspect a load of people will now disagree with that. Exactly, the 1992 stock are great trains and there's no need for them to be replaced anytime soon. What I can't get my head around is that the Bakerloo Line 1972 stock aren't prioritised for the 'New Tube for London', with the Piccadilly Line 1973 stock being replaced first. It would be logical to replace the former first as they are the oldest in the network. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 11, 2014 0:12:26 GMT
Exactly, the 1992 stock are great trains and there's no need for them to be replaced anytime soon. What I can't get my head around is that the Bakerloo Line 1972 stock aren't prioritised for the 'New Tube for London', with the Piccadilly Line 1973 stock being replaced first. It would be logical to replace the former first as they are the oldest in the network. I am reliably informed that the 72s are a simpler train and therfore easier to keep going. The 73s were more technologically advanced at the time but now have a greater obsolescence risk hence the desire to get them out of service faster. The 72s are more a " 'it it wiv a hammer " type train where more basic repairs and refurbishment will keep them going. There is also the issue that the Picc is extremely overloaded in the peaks and suffers very badly at weekends with overcrowding. Therefore getting more capacity on the line is a priority but we are still talking of having to keep the track, trains and signalling going for another decade. The signalling and control system on the Picc is also very old and while it has had some tweaks in recent years it really, really needs replacing although to be fair so does the Bakerloo Line's system. There has been a recent project approval (see page 10) to get some funding to replace the oldest computers involved in running the Bakerloo Line. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 11, 2014 9:34:51 GMT
I see they have revised the front design by making the front windscreen a lot less circular shaped which means it's looks better looks wise. One thing I have to quibble though is they say they will get 40 years service from them yet the 1992 stock on the Central Line is only 22 years old and they'll be replaced by these new trains in around 6-8 years time - years ago, stock would be built to last but not these days. The 1992 stock are good trains though I suspect a load of people will now disagree with that. I won't be sorry to see the back of the 1992 stock  |
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Post by ajw on Oct 11, 2014 13:23:22 GMT
I see they have revised the front design by making the front windscreen a lot less circular shaped which means it's looks better looks wise. One thing I have to quibble though is they say they will get 40 years service from them yet the 1992 stock on the Central Line is only 22 years old and they'll be replaced by these new trains in around 6-8 years time - years ago, stock would be built to last but not these days. The 1992 stock are good trains though I suspect a load of people will now disagree with that. Think you will find the 1992 stock will be around a bit longer than 6-8 years. The first of these new trains aren't due until 2022 and the first batch are for the Piccadilly line. I would then gather the next batch will go to the Bakerloo and finally the Central and Waterloo and City line. So maybe you are looking at closer to 2030. PS they are only 21 years old too. The first entered service in 1993 so if the first is replace in 2030 then the oldest 1992 stock will be 37 years. |
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 11, 2014 13:26:56 GMT
Exactly, the 1992 stock are great trains and there's no need for them to be replaced anytime soon. What I can't get my head around is that the Bakerloo Line 1972 stock aren't prioritised for the 'New Tube for London', with the Piccadilly Line 1973 stock being replaced first. It would be logical to replace the former first as they are the oldest in the network. I am reliably informed that the 72s are a simpler train and therfore easier to keep going. The 73s were more technologically advanced at the time but now have a greater obsolescence risk hence the desire to get them out of service faster. The 72s are more a " 'it it wiv a hammer " type train where more basic repairs and refurbishment will keep them going. There is also the issue that the Picc is extremely overloaded in the peaks and suffers very badly at weekends with overcrowding. Therefore getting more capacity on the line is a priority but we are still talking of having to keep the track, trains and signalling going for another decade. The signalling and control system on the Picc is also very old and while it has had some tweaks in recent years it really, really needs replacing although to be fair so does the Bakerloo Line's system. There has been a recent project approval (see page 10) to get some funding to replace the oldest computers involved in running the Bakerloo Line. 'it it wiv a hammer' lool  , I suppose they are reliable to be still running until now and yet more time to come. Having said that defective trains and signalling problems on the Bakerloo Line are becoming more of a common scene nowadays. There is a bit of understanding in why the Piccadilly Line is seen as a priority, as it serves Heathrow Airport and the extreme overcrowding. But there is no logic in the Central line being upgraded before the Bakerloo and Piccadilly imo. What would be interesting is if and only if the Central is upgraded before the Bakerloo, then the 92s could replace the 72s on the Bakerloo. Dimensions wouldn't be an issue as surprisingly the width and height of the 72s are slightly larger than 92s, length per carriage is slightly longer on 92s by only 16 cm, some platforms would only need to be lengthened. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 11, 2014 15:35:37 GMT
'it it wiv a hammer' lool , I suppose they are reliable to be still running until now and yet more time to come. Having said that defective trains and signalling problems on the Bakerloo Line are becoming more of a common scene nowadays. There is a bit of understanding in why the Piccadilly Line is seen as a priority, as it serves Heathrow Airport and the extreme overcrowding. But there is no logic in the Central line being upgraded before the Bakerloo and Piccadilly imo. What would be interesting is if and only if the Central is upgraded before the Bakerloo, then the 92s could replace the 72s on the Bakerloo. Dimensions wouldn't be an issue as surprisingly the width and height of the 72s are slightly larger than 92s, length per carriage is slightly longer on 92s by only 16 cm, some platforms would only need to be lengthened. The Central and W'loo & City lines are a long way down the queue for new trains. Piccadilly is first, Bakerloo is second and then Central and then W&C. There is not going to be a premature withdrawal of 1992 stock. TfL is spending a small fortune on repairing / refurbing various bits of the Bakerloo Line, including the trains, to keep things going for another 15-20 years. It's ludicrous but Boris couldn't get the money from the Chancellor for an accelerated upgrade programme so we're faced with running the 72 stock for 20 years longer than is desirable. It's like the worst aspects of LT from the 1970s. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 25, 2014 21:59:53 GMT
There might also be the question about the prestige as well as the practicality of having modern stock serve Heathrow on the Piccadilly Line. I read the Bakerloo Line described as the quietest line, which may justify it having older trains. It had a large batch of 1938 stock later than any other lines too.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 26, 2014 9:32:09 GMT
There might also be the question about the prestige as well as the practicality of having modern stock serve Heathrow on the Piccadilly Line. I read the Bakerloo Line described as the quietest line, which may justify it having older trains. It had a large batch of 1938 stock later than any other lines too. It's nothing to do with prestige. It is all to do with whether they can keep the old systems running long enough and also how to cater for ever increasing demand. The Piccadilly Line is seriously overloaded and has little ability to cope with it. The signalling capacity at key junctions / turn backs (Arnos Grove and Acton Town) cannot cope with increased frequencies. LU tried to run trains more frequently a few years ago and had train jams from Arnos Grove to Kings Cross and Acton Town back past Hammersmith. They actually reduced the number of trains to allow a smoother service and this largely rectified the service problems but, of course, limits capacity. Faster trains with more space inside and a new signalling and control system will allow the capacity and frequency issues to be dealt with. Of course we are going to have years of closures and weekend disruption on the Picc Line while they do the upgrading. |
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, I suppose they are reliable to be still running until now and yet more time to come. Having said that defective trains and signalling problems on the Bakerloo Line are becoming more of a common scene nowadays. There is a bit of understanding in why the Piccadilly Line is seen as a priority, as it serves Heathrow Airport and the extreme overcrowding. But there is no logic in the Central line being upgraded before the Bakerloo and Piccadilly imo. What would be interesting is if and only if the Central is upgraded before the Bakerloo, then the 92s could replace the 72s on the Bakerloo. Dimensions wouldn't be an issue as surprisingly the width and height of the 72s are slightly larger than 92s, length per carriage is slightly longer on 92s by only 16 cm, some platforms would only need to be lengthened. 