Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 17:32:17 GMT
Public transport seems to have become the main issue for local politicians in Streatham, which although a major issue it is probably mostly due to party politics. When the area had Lib Dem councillors they focussed on the Labour council's failings, but having been wiped out by Labour (and one Green) in May the council is now faultless and the concern is with the failings of the tory Mayor. There have been a lot of comments recently about it on Twitter and Val Shawcross, the local Assembly Member and member of the transport committee, has written a blog post condensing what seems to be the Labour position. That is the summary, she does go into more detail in the post which is here: www.valshawcross.com/transport-services-and-our-environment-in-streatham/I did find interesting the complaint about the lack of a route from Streatham Vale turning south on the High Road towards Norbury, so missing out on the main part of Streatham. It is not something I had thought of before, but several of us on here have complained about the poor east-west links and this would count as one to those in the area. I wonder if there might be a case for a local route like Tooting or Mitcham through Streatham Vale to Norbury and Thornton Heath via London Road? The latter being another direct journey that cannot be made directly despite being to a local town centre. |
|
|
|
Post by Nathan on Oct 12, 2014 17:52:27 GMT
Here are my thoughts:
Greater East-West Frequencies - Hmm...would the 417 really need a frequency increase? I've used the route a number of times during the afternoon/evening rush hour, but I haven't seen anything the buses right now can't handle. I can't comment on the G1, but I can guess that it would need the increase given the suburban areas it goes through. Same with the P13, but didn't this route already get an increase? Also, I can't really comment on the 24 . But I can guess that the route gets extremely busy in Norwood.
Some new destinations - Well...some ideas have already been discussed on the forum, such as rerouting the 45 I think?
Cleaner engine buses - Well, BN have already received hybrids, the 109 will be receiving hybrids, and other routes up for tender soon (such as the 50 & 159) will most likely get hybrids. Especially the 159!
Better bus prioritisation - Could bus lanes on Streatham High Road work?
New countdown information boards - I can see the ones used on Eden Street being used at Telford Avenue and Streatham, Tesco. But aren't there countdown displays on most bus stops along Streatham High Road?
|
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 12, 2014 17:59:31 GMT
Public transport seems to have become the main issue for local politicians in Streatham, which although a major issue it is probably mostly due to party politics. When the area had Lib Dem councillors they focussed on the Labour council's failings, but having been wiped out by Labour (and one Green) in May the council is now faultless and the concern is with the failings of the tory Mayor. There have been a lot of comments recently about it on Twitter and Val Shawcross, the local Assembly Member and member of the transport committee, has written a blog post condensing what seems to be the Labour position. That is the summary, she does go into more detail in the post which is here: www.valshawcross.com/transport-services-and-our-environment-in-streatham/I did find interesting the complaint about the lack of a route from Streatham Vale turning south on the High Road towards Norbury, so missing out on the main part of Streatham. It is not something I had thought of before, but several of us on here have complained about the poor east-west links and this would count as one to those in the area. I wonder if there might be a case for a local route like Tooting or Mitcham through Streatham Vale to Norbury and Thornton Heath via London Road? The latter being another direct journey that cannot be made directly despite being to a local town centre. Wimbledon to Thornton Heath via Plough Lane, St George's Hospital, Tooting Broadway, Mitcham, Fair Green, Mitcham Common, Streatham Vale, Norbury, Norbury Avenue & Parchmore Road would be very interesting as it gives both Tooting & Mitcham the required link. I only avoided London Road due to the heavy traffic that builds up lol. The 249, 417 & P13 definitely need better frequencies - the 417 is terribly unreliable most likely due to all the schools served both directly and indirectly. I also agree with at least one Streatham route serving Kings College Hospital. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 12, 2014 18:25:27 GMT
Here are my thoughts: Greater East-West Frequencies - Hmm...would the 417 really need a frequency increase? I've used the route a number of times during the afternoon/evening rush hour, but I haven't seen anything the buses right now can't handle. I can't comment on the G1, but I can guess that it would need the increase given the suburban areas it goes through. Same with the P13, but didn't this route already get an increase? Also, I can't really comment on the 24 . But I can guess that the route gets extremely busy in Norwood. Some new destinations - Well...some ideas have already been discussed on the forum, such as rerouting the 45 I think? Cleaner engine buses - Well, BN have already received hybrids, the 109 will be receiving hybrids, and other routes up for tender soon (such as the 50 & 159) will most likely get hybrids. Especially the 159! Better bus prioritisation - Could bus lanes on Streatham High Road work? New countdown information boards - I can see the ones used on Eden Street being used at Telford Avenue and Streatham, Tesco. But aren't there countdown displays on most bus stops along Streatham High Road? The 417 needs massive help as it's terribly unreliable and as a result, my brother no longer bothers with the route despite it passing his school. The 249 & P13 also needs a bit of help too although the 249 has greatly improved over the years. I wonder if sending the 45 up to Streatham is a bit far - I still think though that Streatham should have at least one route to Kings College. Cleaner engined buses - well, as you mention, they will come as contracts are awarded/retained. One thing I will say is that someone should tell Val that the 59 already has hybrid buses. There are bus lanes along Streatham Hill & Streatham High Road but not everywhere along the two roads - Streatham Hill has just one bus lane which goes from Telford Avenue to Brixton Hill northbound only. Streatham High Road has around 7 bus lanes: Southbound ones are Leigham Avenue to Becmead Avenue, Streatham Station to Streatham Common North Side and Greyhound Lane to Streatham Common South Side Northbound ones are Becmead Avenue to Woodford Avenue, St Leonards Church, Streatham Common South Side to Streatham Station & London Road to Green Lane As for countdown screens, most bus stops along Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill have countdown screens so doubt it would be an issue to finish them off. While they are there, get some fitted for the Brixton bus stops lol. |
|
|
|
Post by Nathan on Oct 12, 2014 18:47:31 GMT
I've read the article and there are several observations. - Val seems to have missed that there are hybrids and modern euro5 buses in operation in Streatham. I know there are older ones too but that's true London wide. Other than the obvious political campaigning point what makes Streatham a priority over anywhere else? - Val seems not to have been told that some of e-w routes in Streatham are getting frequency improvements - Val seems not to have been told that the 109 is getting euro6 hybrids in a few months time - Val seems to have forgotten that you need something called money to make things better. A whingeing wish list is fine and dandy but she needs to say where the money comes from and she also needs to get off her standard "no more fantasy transport schemes" was the sole solution to financial issues. She won't support increased fares so where does the money come from? - Val seems not to realise that her campaign with Chukka Umunna to preserve the Thameslink loop trains running through the Thameslink will cause a lock in of low frequency rail services across London because of the criticality of getting that one service through several pinchpoints on the network. - I am sure that there are sensible things that could be done to improve bus links in Streatham and elsewhere. The point, though, (yawn yawn) is who gets what money and when do they get it and how do you prioritise between conflicting priorities? Again nothing being said about this either. We need to start seeing logic and commitments from politicians as we head towards elections not moans and wish lists. Essentially, Val doesn't exactly know a lot of what's happening already. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 19:23:33 GMT
Better bus prioritisation - Could bus lanes on Streatham High Road work? New countdown information boards - I can see the ones used on Eden Street being used at Telford Avenue and Streatham, Tesco. But aren't there countdown displays on most bus stops along Streatham High Road? The countdown issue is specifically about the Streatham Vale area and the bus priority one mainly means the St Leonard's gyratory, as explained in the full post. Although the lack of a countdown display on the St Leonard's stops on Tooting Bec Road and the High Road southbound are notable omissions It is difficult to see what can be done at St Leonard's for buses though as it is the intersection of the A23, A214, and A216 with an awkward layout. St Leonard's junction is on a weird contour and the A23 narrows to a single carriageway between it and Becmead Avenue. It is also a major accident spot because of the blind corners and a pedestrian crossing on the A23 where half of it is never has a phase that is red to road traffic. - Val seems not to realise that her campaign with Chukka Umunna to preserve the Thameslink loop trains running through the Thameslink will cause a lock in of low frequency rail services across London because of the criticality of getting that one service through several pinchpoints on the network. We have been through this, a bit acrimoniously, in detail before and that remains completely untrue. Whether or not the Sutton loop has through or terminating services has no affect on capacity whatsoever. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Oct 12, 2014 20:22:38 GMT
Well there are 'cleaner buses' on the 59 and 319 and more will obviously follow in due course.
East/West links could be better and one radical idea I had was to extend the 60 to Brixton and reroute the 118 via the 249/417 routes to Crystal Palace if some stand space could be found. I would suggest withdrawing the 60 south of TC and extending the 312 to Old Coulsdon but there would be uproar about the loss of the link to Mayday Hospital.
Perhaps the 463 could be rerouted via Streatham Vale and terminate at Norbury.
Extending the 45 to Streatham Common would provide the Kings College Hospital link
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 21:53:50 GMT
Well we must unacrimoniously agree to differ then mustn't we? I have read plenty of stuff elsewhere that offers a different opinion to yours. Let's leave it there. No, please post your evidence as I did mine, which you accepted, previously. If you wish to pedal untruths and call me wrong then I am going to call it to question just as you do when anyone else posts something you know to be wrong. Blackfriars was built with the capacity to support a peak service of 24tph through and 8tph terminating services. The plan is for 16tph through services from London Bridge and 16tph from Elephant & Castle split equally between through and terminating ones. This has not been reduced by the decision to run through services to Sutton. Between Blackfriars and Loughborough Junction the route has four tracks so will be under used with just 16tph once the full service is running. There is a major constraint at Herne Hill due to the flat junction crossings with the Victoria - Bromley South line, but the ultimate destination of services makes is irrelevant. Well there are 'cleaner buses' on the 59 and 319 and more will obviously follow in due course. I do not even know why she mentioned the 59 in her list though as it is not a route through Streatham, it only has two stops and one of those is at the depot. If her concern is pollution levels on the High Road (which is usually taken to include Streatham Hill) it has minimal impact. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 12, 2014 22:18:55 GMT
East/West links could be better and one radical idea I had was to extend the 60 to Brixton and reroute the 118 via the 249/417 routes to Crystal Palace if some stand space could be found. I would suggest withdrawing the 60 south of TC and extending the 312 to Old Coulsdon but there would be uproar about the loss of the link to Mayday Hospital. Perhaps the 463 could be rerouted via Streatham Vale and terminate at Norbury. Extending the 45 to Streatham Common would provide the Kings College Hospital link I'm afraid I don't see the logic in extending the 60 to Brixton and re-routing the 118 to Crystal Palace. Brixton does not need another route to Croydon after the 109 & 250 whilst the 109 only needs help from Streatham Station southwards which the 60 wouldn't solve as it runs via Streatham Vale & Pollards Hill. The 118 also sees quite a number of people using it between Mitcham & Brixton which is the only route that provides this link - in fact, the 118 may be the best route to link Streatham & Kings College together rather than the 45 which provides an important service to Clapham Park. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 5:42:02 GMT
I've read the article and there are several observations. - Val seems to have missed that there are hybrids and modern euro5 buses in operation in Streatham. I know there are older ones too but that's true London wide. Other than the obvious political campaigning point what makes Streatham a priority over anywhere else? - Val seems not to have been told that some of e-w routes in Streatham are getting frequency improvements - Val seems not to have been told that the 109 is getting euro6 hybrids in a few months time - Val seems to have forgotten that you need something called money to make things better. A whingeing wish list is fine and dandy but she needs to say where the money comes from and she also needs to get off her standard "no more fantasy transport schemes" was the sole solution to financial issues. She won't support increased fares so where does the money come from? - Val seems not to realise that her campaign with Chukka Umunna to preserve the Thameslink loop trains running through the Thameslink will cause a lock in of low frequency rail services across London because of the criticality of getting that one service through several pinchpoints on the network. - I am sure that there are sensible things that could be done to improve bus links in Streatham and elsewhere. The point, though, (yawn yawn) is who gets what money and when do they get it and how do you prioritise between conflicting priorities? Again nothing being said about this either. We need to start seeing logic and commitments from politicians as we head towards elections not moans and wish lists. The logical thing to do would be to improve the Thameslink loop, and perhaps isolate it from the main network, even made into a high frequency tramlink style service. I understand people want a direct link to the City, but what use is that line running every 30 mins at a weekend, when more local trips are made ? The Sutton - Streatham section via Wimbledon could be made high frequency, build a new station where these lines travel over the northern line tunnels in Tooting near St George's Hospital, providing interchange here , you could possibly re position or extend the Morden northern line station nearer Morden South. If money was no object , I would then consider running this as a road tram along the A23 from Streatham to Brixton. Would need a tunnel level re construct at Wimbledon as well. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Oct 13, 2014 6:53:07 GMT
East/West links could be better and one radical idea I had was to extend the 60 to Brixton and reroute the 118 via the 249/417 routes to Crystal Palace if some stand space could be found. I would suggest withdrawing the 60 south of TC and extending the 312 to Old Coulsdon but there would be uproar about the loss of the link to Mayday Hospital. Perhaps the 463 could be rerouted via Streatham Vale and terminate at Norbury. Extending the 45 to Streatham Common would provide the Kings College Hospital link I'm afraid I don't see the logic in extending the 60 to Brixton and re-routing the 118 to Crystal Palace. Brixton does not need another route to Croydon after the 109 & 250 whilst the 109 only needs help from Streatham Station southwards which the 60 wouldn't solve as it runs via Streatham Vale & Pollards Hill. The 118 also sees quite a number of people using it between Mitcham & Brixton which is the only route that provides this link - in fact, the 118 may be the best route to link Streatham & Kings College together rather than the 45 which provides an important service to Clapham Park. The 60 would replace the Brixton section of the 118, the fact that there would be three routes between Brixton and Croydon is irrelevant, nobody complains that there are three routes between North Greenwich and Bexleyheath. The 118 is indirect between Mitcham and Brixton, taking the 201 to Streatham and changing would be quicker. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 13, 2014 7:10:51 GMT
I'm afraid I don't see the logic in extending the 60 to Brixton and re-routing the 118 to Crystal Palace. Brixton does not need another route to Croydon after the 109 & 250 whilst the 109 only needs help from Streatham Station southwards which the 60 wouldn't solve as it runs via Streatham Vale & Pollards Hill. The 118 also sees quite a number of people using it between Mitcham & Brixton which is the only route that provides this link - in fact, the 118 may be the best route to link Streatham & Kings College together rather than the 45 which provides an important service to Clapham Park. The 60 would replace the Brixton section of the 118, the fact that there would be three routes between Brixton and Croydon is irrelevant, nobody complains that there are three routes between North Greenwich and Bexleyheath. The 118 is indirect between Mitcham and Brixton, taking the 201 to Streatham and changing would be quicker. Well actually it is irrelevant because Brixton to Croydon is different to Bexleyheath to North Greenwich - they have different needs and wants. It maybe the case that Bexleyheath and North Greenwich requires three bus links because it can provide good unique links whereas the 60 wouldn't really do provide those kind of links The 118 maybe is indirect but not everyone wants to change bus (especially with the 201 which isn't exactly reliable) and as I mention, many people use it from Brixton to Mitcham so I don't see the need to break the link. |
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Oct 13, 2014 8:36:27 GMT
East/West links could be better and one radical idea I had was to extend the 60 to Brixton and reroute the 118 via the 249/417 routes to Crystal Palace if some stand space could be found. What would replace the 118 between North Mitcham and Morden? That's quite a lot of residential ground to reroute the 118 away from, especially as it's the only route to serve the whole of Manor Way, Commonside East and Wandle Road....all heavily residential areas. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Oct 13, 2014 9:41:33 GMT
East/West links could be better and one radical idea I had was to extend the 60 to Brixton and reroute the 118 via the 249/417 routes to Crystal Palace if some stand space could be found. What would replace the 118 between North Mitcham and Morden? That's quite a lot of residential ground to reroute the 118 away from, especially as it's the only route to serve the whole of Manor Way, Commonside East and Wandle Road....all heavily residential areas. I think you've misunderstood me, the 118 would retain its current route between Morden and Streatham Common. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Oct 13, 2014 9:44:54 GMT
The 60 would replace the Brixton section of the 118, the fact that there would be three routes between Brixton and Croydon is irrelevant, nobody complains that there are three routes between North Greenwich and Bexleyheath. The 118 is indirect between Mitcham and Brixton, taking the 201 to Streatham and changing would be quicker. Well actually it is irrelevant because Brixton to Croydon is different to Bexleyheath to North Greenwich - they have different needs and wants. It maybe the case that Bexleyheath and North Greenwich requires three bus links because it can provide good unique links whereas the 60 wouldn't really do provide those kind of links The 118 maybe is indirect but not everyone wants to change bus (especially with the 201 which isn't exactly reliable) and as I mention, many people use it from Brixton to Mitcham so I don't see the need to break the link. So in a nutshell your objections are that there should not be three routes between Croydon and Brixton and the fact that many people apparently travel on the 118 between Mitcham and Brixton even though it isn't the quickest way of doing so? There is also the 355 of course. The 201 of course changed operator on Saturday so maybe the service will be more reliable. |
|
