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Post by MoEnviro on Feb 25, 2020 16:43:57 GMT
Interesting nothing on a rumoured new Arrival Green Line service Care to share more? Arriva have registered with the traffic commissioner for a new green line route 720 service from Stansted Airport to GLA boundary/Stratford City to start on 1st April. Not sure why 1st April given all the other Arriva changes are 29th March
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Post by uakari on Feb 28, 2020 21:31:57 GMT
I can assure you a bus won’t be able to get down Barnet Lane at the Totteridge War Memorial end. 606 only manages because it doesn’t use that section of the road. The road is far too narrow and a car just about fits, let alone a bus. Sadly that's so true - there is a nasty and very narrow blind bend just south of the academy and beyond the reach of the 606 which I am sure would rule out any regular bus service. Back in the early 1990s Barnet council was pressing LT to serve the academy (then Ravenscroft School) which they were expanding, and after resisting for a long while LT eventually came up with the 606. The council really wanted something from the Totteridge end - for understandable reasons - but it was simply not possible, a penalty of building a large school in the middle of nowhere and served by narrow country lanes. That aside, the 288 extension or the new route would be great, though the former suffers from not serving the hospital, which I believe is a major object of forging a new link. I also think The Spires terminus wouldn't cope with another route. Given the lack of suitable roads, any new link between Barnet and Mill Hill/Edgware will have to go via Stirling Corner or Whetstone. That actually makes the 384 extension look like the best of a bad bunch, as it already serves the hospital and is "facing the right way" to continue westwards. However, it should be part of TfL's investment in the suburbs and not at the expense of local demand in New Barnet - and I hate to think what peak time congestion on the A1 would do to the already dodgy reliability. It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 28, 2020 22:38:17 GMT
Sadly that's so true - there is a nasty and very narrow blind bend just south of the academy and beyond the reach of the 606 which I am sure would rule out any regular bus service. Back in the early 1990s Barnet council was pressing LT to serve the academy (then Ravenscroft School) which they were expanding, and after resisting for a long while LT eventually came up with the 606. The council really wanted something from the Totteridge end - for understandable reasons - but it was simply not possible, a penalty of building a large school in the middle of nowhere and served by narrow country lanes. That aside, the 288 extension or the new route would be great, though the former suffers from not serving the hospital, which I believe is a major object of forging a new link. I also think The Spires terminus wouldn't cope with another route. Given the lack of suitable roads, any new link between Barnet and Mill Hill/Edgware will have to go via Stirling Corner or Whetstone. That actually makes the 384 extension look like the best of a bad bunch, as it already serves the hospital and is "facing the right way" to continue westwards. However, it should be part of TfL's investment in the suburbs and not at the expense of local demand in New Barnet - and I hate to think what peak time congestion on the A1 would do to the already dodgy reliability. It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. It's also a shame that Mays Lane has a width restriction right where the 184 turns off it as then the new route could start at the Arkley Hotel, run into Barnet and serve the shopping area, then run past High Barnet onto Mays Lane and onto to Barnet Gate Way before running along Barnet Road & Barnet Way towards Edgware.
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Post by uakari on Feb 28, 2020 22:55:02 GMT
It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. It's also a shame that Mays Lane has a width restriction right where the 184 turns off it as then the new route could start at the Arkley Hotel, run into Barnet and serve the shopping area, then run past High Barnet onto Mays Lane and onto to Barnet Gate Way before running along Barnet Road & Barnet Way towards Edgware. Yes, although in that case it would rather doubling back on itself. Personally, I am a fan of a new or extended route from Edgware and/or Mill Hill Broadway, going from Apex Corner via Marsh Lane, going up Hendon Wood Lane with a new bus gate at the top of it, then going along Barnet Gate Lane and the western end of Mays Lane (where there is a lot of Housing currently remote from a bus service), turning into Chesterfield Road, going along Trinder Road and Wellhouse Lane past Barnet Hospital, along Wood Street past Barnet Church and High Barnet station (maybe even into the station grounds on the return journey, if the new plans for the station grounds are altered to allow bus access), to terminate either at New Barnet station or continue past New Barnet station to go down Victoria Road (has been widened) and Park Road, to do the Westbrook Crescent loop for the new New Barnet Leisure Centre and JCoSS), terminating at that bit just at the junction of Lawton Road where there is a long fence and no houses that side of the road.
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Post by VMH2452 on Feb 29, 2020 10:25:02 GMT
Sadly that's so true - there is a nasty and very narrow blind bend just south of the academy and beyond the reach of the 606 which I am sure would rule out any regular bus service. Back in the early 1990s Barnet council was pressing LT to serve the academy (then Ravenscroft School) which they were expanding, and after resisting for a long while LT eventually came up with the 606. The council really wanted something from the Totteridge end - for understandable reasons - but it was simply not possible, a penalty of building a large school in the middle of nowhere and served by narrow country lanes. That aside, the 288 extension or the new route would be great, though the former suffers from not serving the hospital, which I believe is a major object of forging a new link. I also think The Spires terminus wouldn't cope with another route. Given the lack of suitable roads, any new link between Barnet and Mill Hill/Edgware will have to go via Stirling Corner or Whetstone. That actually makes the 384 extension look like the best of a bad bunch, as it already serves the hospital and is "facing the right way" to continue westwards. However, it should be part of TfL's investment in the suburbs and not at the expense of local demand in New Barnet - and I hate to think what peak time congestion on the A1 would do to the already dodgy reliability. It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. Hendon Wood Lane wouldn’t be able to accommodate a bus either. Far too narrow, extremely sharp bends and other vehicles such as vans make driving a car down there hard as they almost always stray into your lane. A bus would make it almost impossible to drive down there.
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Post by VWH1414 on Feb 29, 2020 11:08:19 GMT
Sadly that's so true - there is a nasty and very narrow blind bend just south of the academy and beyond the reach of the 606 which I am sure would rule out any regular bus service. Back in the early 1990s Barnet council was pressing LT to serve the academy (then Ravenscroft School) which they were expanding, and after resisting for a long while LT eventually came up with the 606. The council really wanted something from the Totteridge end - for understandable reasons - but it was simply not possible, a penalty of building a large school in the middle of nowhere and served by narrow country lanes. That aside, the 288 extension or the new route would be great, though the former suffers from not serving the hospital, which I believe is a major object of forging a new link. I also think The Spires terminus wouldn't cope with another route. Given the lack of suitable roads, any new link between Barnet and Mill Hill/Edgware will have to go via Stirling Corner or Whetstone. That actually makes the 384 extension look like the best of a bad bunch, as it already serves the hospital and is "facing the right way" to continue westwards. However, it should be part of TfL's investment in the suburbs and not at the expense of local demand in New Barnet - and I hate to think what peak time congestion on the A1 would do to the already dodgy reliability. It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. I think extending the 240 all the way to New Barnet may make it a bit long, but the 340 could probably get away with it (Would need a better frequency though). Though perhaps maybe if TfL invested in a new route for the borough of Barnet for once, that would be nice. Something like this: Colindale Station (Can use the 125 stand - should be enough space to accommodate the 2) Grahame Park (Can help relieve pressure off the 303 in this area) Mill Hill Broadway Deansbrook Road (Replaces broken 303 link - and at the Edgware end of the road goes right near Edgware Community Hospital) Edgware Station Edgware Way Apex Corner Marsh Hill (605 currently serves this road) Mill Hill The Rising Sun Totteridge War Memorial Totteridge & Whetstone Station Great North Road (As it can't serve Barnet Lane or Hendon Wood Lane sadly - so will have to take the slightly longer way) Longmore Avenue (Takes this excursion so it can reach New Barnet) East Barnet Village New Barnet High Barnet Barnet High Street Barnet Hospital Ideally this would be the most perfect you could get the link - would also help replace some lost links along the way and relieve pressure off existing services such as the 251/303. Sadly I don't think TfL would ever be willing to spend money in this part of London at current times. The best hope would be for an existing route to be extended, but even then it would probably wouldn't get to all the places I have mentioned. For example extending the 340 won't allow for the part to Mill Hill Broadway or Colindale to go ahead.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 29, 2020 11:40:33 GMT
It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. Hendon Wood Lane wouldn’t be able to accommodate a bus either. Far too narrow, extremely sharp bends and other vehicles such as vans make driving a car down there hard as they almost always stray into your lane. A bus would make it almost impossible to drive down there. Had a look on Google Maps and it doesn't seem as bad as you describe (not saying your wrong) - there's one bend that looks fairly tricky and the odd narrow section but nothing you wouldn't see outside London. The width restriction would of been a problem in any event.
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Post by uakari on Feb 29, 2020 11:45:44 GMT
It's a pity that Barnet Lane can't be re-designed to allow buses along its full length. I hope someone does send a variation of this idea through to TfL though, as it has good bones and most importantly, would leave the 384 intact. I'm thinking using Hendon Wood Lane (bus gate at the top) and possibly also Barnet Gate Lane as an alternative to Barnet Lane, and coming into Barnet that way. Unfortunately, the only existing stand in High Barnet with enough space appears go be the Arkley Hotel stand for the 634, that used to host the 307. Coming in via Hendon Wood Lane and using that stand wouldn't allow the route to penetrate Barnet. I suggest extending the new route (or extending the 240 or 340) to New Barnet station where there is still space for terminating routes, or possibly even as far as to terminate at the Lawton Road/Westbrook Crescent loop to solve the access from Edgware to JCoSS issue. I also like the alternative idea that was suggested of a new 'orbital express' route linking major outer north London settlements - I would suggest Harrow to Enfield via Stanmore, Edgware, High Barnet, New Barnet and Oakwood. I think extending the 240 all the way to New Barnet may make it a bit long, but the 340 could probably get away with it (Would need a better frequency though). Though perhaps maybe if TfL invested in a new route for the borough of Barnet for once, that would be nice. Something like this: Colindale Station (Can use the 125 stand - should be enough space to accommodate the 2) Grahame Park (Can help relieve pressure off the 303 in this area) Mill Hill Broadway Deansbrook Road (Replaces broken 303 link - and at the Edgware end of the road goes right near Edgware Community Hospital) Edgware Station Edgware Way Apex Corner Marsh Hill (605 currently serves this road) Mill Hill The Rising Sun Totteridge War Memorial Totteridge & Whetstone Station Great North Road (As it can't serve Barnet Lane or Hendon Wood Lane sadly - so will have to take the slightly longer way) Longmore Avenue (Takes this excursion so it can reach New Barnet) East Barnet Village New Barnet High Barnet Barnet High Street Barnet Hospital Ideally this would be the most perfect you could get the link - would also help replace some lost links along the way and relieve pressure off existing services such as the 251/303. Sadly I don't think TfL would ever be willing to spend money in this part of London at current times. The best hope would be for an existing route to be extended, but even then it would probably wouldn't get to all the places I have mentioned. For example extending the 340 won't allow for the part to Mill Hill Broadway or Colindale to go ahead. What you describe would be another workable possibly, although some users on here have stated that Hendon Wood Lane could accommodate a short single decker if the top of the lane were redesigned to have a bus gate. Personally I wouldn't like to say for sure one way or the other. However, unfortunately there is no room left at the Barnet Hospital stand itself, so the nearest place the route you suggest could terminate is at the Arkley Hotel, passing by Wood Street for Barnet Hospital on the way.
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Post by VWH1414 on Feb 29, 2020 12:16:41 GMT
I think extending the 240 all the way to New Barnet may make it a bit long, but the 340 could probably get away with it (Would need a better frequency though). Though perhaps maybe if TfL invested in a new route for the borough of Barnet for once, that would be nice. Something like this: Colindale Station (Can use the 125 stand - should be enough space to accommodate the 2) Grahame Park (Can help relieve pressure off the 303 in this area) Mill Hill Broadway Deansbrook Road (Replaces broken 303 link - and at the Edgware end of the road goes right near Edgware Community Hospital) Edgware Station Edgware Way Apex Corner Marsh Hill (605 currently serves this road) Mill Hill The Rising Sun Totteridge War Memorial Totteridge & Whetstone Station Great North Road (As it can't serve Barnet Lane or Hendon Wood Lane sadly - so will have to take the slightly longer way) Longmore Avenue (Takes this excursion so it can reach New Barnet) East Barnet Village New Barnet High Barnet Barnet High Street Barnet Hospital Ideally this would be the most perfect you could get the link - would also help replace some lost links along the way and relieve pressure off existing services such as the 251/303. Sadly I don't think TfL would ever be willing to spend money in this part of London at current times. The best hope would be for an existing route to be extended, but even then it would probably wouldn't get to all the places I have mentioned. For example extending the 340 won't allow for the part to Mill Hill Broadway or Colindale to go ahead. What you describe would be another workable possibly, although some users on here have stated that Hendon Wood Lane could accommodate a short single decker if the top of the lane were redesigned to have a bus gate. Personally I wouldn't like to say for sure one way or the other. However, unfortunately there is no room left at the Barnet Hospital stand itself, so the nearest place the route you suggest could terminate is at the Arkley Hotel, passing by Wood Street for Barnet Hospital on the way. Standing at Arkley Hotel would be good enough - only a short extension down the road and also would connect the area of Arkley some more too. As for Hendon Wood Lane, I think its more trouble then its worth - especially if the route ends up becoming a hit, then short SDs may not be sufficient, as I have a feeling a route like this would have decent patronage and at least deserve 10.2m or 10.8m SDs.
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Post by uakari on Feb 29, 2020 12:31:46 GMT
What you describe would be another workable possibly, although some users on here have stated that Hendon Wood Lane could accommodate a short single decker if the top of the lane were redesigned to have a bus gate. Personally I wouldn't like to say for sure one way or the other. However, unfortunately there is no room left at the Barnet Hospital stand itself, so the nearest place the route you suggest could terminate is at the Arkley Hotel, passing by Wood Street for Barnet Hospital on the way. Standing at Arkley Hotel would be good enough - only a short extension down the road and also would connect the area of Arkley some more too. As for Hendon Wood Lane, I think its more trouble then its worth - especially if the route ends up becoming a hit, then short SDs may not be sufficient, as I have a feeling a route like this would have decent patronage and at least deserve 10.2m or 10.8m SDs. Yes, passing by Wood Street and terminating at the Arkley Hotel is not too far from Barnet Hospital, although one should bear in mind that many people using the bus to and from the hospital will have mobility difficulties. Surely using shortish single deckers on a route/extension that doesn't even exist yet is preferable to using no buses at all, though? If the new route is kept under review and proves popular, that aspect could be looked at again, but may be able to be solved by keeping the same buses and simply increasing the frequency. The reasonss that going via Hendon Wood Lane is preferable are: 1) to avoid the traffic on the A1 between Apex Corner and Stirling Corner, which would cause delays, especially in rush hour 2) to bring the area round Marsh Lane into within walking distance of a regular bus service, whereas it is currently only within walking distance of a schooltime bus service 3) to allow the route to enter High Barnet from the west, passing by or near to Barnet Hospital, and possibly also along Barnet Gate Lane and the western end of Mays Lane, where there are a lot of houses currently remote from a bus service.
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Post by VMH2452 on Feb 29, 2020 13:29:58 GMT
Hendon Wood Lane wouldn’t be able to accommodate a bus either. Far too narrow, extremely sharp bends and other vehicles such as vans make driving a car down there hard as they almost always stray into your lane. A bus would make it almost impossible to drive down there. Had a look on Google Maps and it doesn't seem as bad as you describe (not saying your wrong) - there's one bend that looks fairly tricky and the odd narrow section but nothing you wouldn't see outside London. The width restriction would of been a problem in any event. May not look bad but is different when your driving and you have an endless stream of vehicles that stray into your lane as they can’t be bothered to stay in their lane. I know someone who drives along there everyday and they are constantly scrapping their wheels as they have to drive into the curb to avoid collisions with other cars and vans that can’t stay in lane. A bus would just make it worse.
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Post by rebbelhead on Feb 29, 2020 18:08:27 GMT
Had a look on Google Maps and it doesn't seem as bad as you describe (not saying your wrong) - there's one bend that looks fairly tricky and the odd narrow section but nothing you wouldn't see outside London. The width restriction would of been a problem in any event. May not look bad but is different when your driving and you have an endless stream of vehicles that stray into your lane as they can’t be bothered to stay in their lane. I know someone who drives along there everyday and they are constantly scrapping their wheels as they have to drive into the curb to avoid collisions with other cars and vans that can’t stay in lane. A bus would just make it worse. So true! Google maps has its limitations The main problems with Hendon Wood Lane are some narrow bends at the foot of the hill and the junction with Barnet Road (which could probably be addressed) coupled with the huge mount of peak traffic using it as a rat run to avoid the A1. A few days ago I posted that Stirling Corner or Whetstone are the only realistic possibilities for a bus route connecting Barnet and Mill Hill/Edgware ... and I really meant it after a lot of thought! Vjaska, you are right that outside London it might not be a problem. i am familiar with many good examples - but the roads have neither the car traffic nor the bus frequencies that Hendon Wood Lane would see.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 16:34:53 GMT
The 470s extension to Epsom Hospital will be delayed until 29th May 2021 as the results have been updated today and I've posted the results update on the 470 extension consultation thread
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Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 11, 2020 17:53:17 GMT
When you think of the 384, you'd think of it as being a high street link route to many local housing estates and roads. Taking away a section of the "round the houses" link and making it a route that runs to Edgware instead after Quinta Drive in my opinion makes the route much more prone to bad reliability. Coupled with the buses it has, and the frequency, and the amount of local opposition against the cuts is astonishing. The 107 is a route I wouldn't touch, the amount of money needing to be forked out for a local route season tickets go is astonishing, and to possibly remove it as some suggest, would not go down well with people who rely on the 107 to reach the tube (Stanmore & Edgware & high Barnet) would annoy some and would anger the elderly. I can't say I don't like the 324 extension but again, I still wouldn't do it. If there is demand on the sections suggested that the 324 & 384 would replace, a frequency increase on the 107 would be so much better than needing to extend the 324 & 384.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 11, 2020 18:27:55 GMT
When you think of the 384, you'd think of it as being a high street link route to many local housing estates and roads. Taking away a section of the "round the houses" link and making it a route that runs to Edgware instead after Quinta Drive in my opinion makes the route much more prone to bad reliability. Coupled with the buses it has, and the frequency, and the amount of local opposition against the cuts is astonishing. The 107 is a route I wouldn't touch, the amount of money needing to be forked out for a local route season tickets go is astonishing, and to possibly remove it as some suggest, would not go down well with people who rely on the 107 to reach the tube (Stanmore & Edgware & high Barnet) would annoy some and would anger the elderly. I can't say I don't like the 324 extension but again, I still wouldn't do it. If there is demand on the sections suggested that the 324 & 384 would replace, a frequency increase on the 107 would be so much better than needing to extend the 324 & 384. The 107 doesn’t link up the areas the 324 runs in - the point of the 324’s extension is to provide better access to the hospital from places like Stanmore
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