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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 18:22:28 GMT
As you say it's quite wasteful and maybe TfL should use social media to a better advantage however with government advice on transport seemingly being non existent, I think it's very difficult for TfL to make people aware of the current standings and as you say in a couple of weeks who knows whether they'll be useful or not. My question is can they be reapplied in the unfortunate case of a second wave? I don't see how it's wasteful at all providing clear signage and most drivers are enforcing limits, I saw a driver on the 53 at Elephant & Castle just a few hours ago refusing to let excessive numbers of passengers on board. Government advice on public transport couldn't be clearer....... don't use it unless your journey is essential and use a face covering and yes obviously lower limits will be reapplied if necessary. It's a fast changing situation and credit it where it's due I think TfL have done a good job with the appropriate signage. Considering if the stickers can't be reapplied, then that's my reasoning of it being wasteful, new stickers would have to be made again in the case of a second wave which wouldn't be very good. Certainly my perspective of travel has changed, yes I can walk and cycle but there are some places like school which requires a journey by public transport. At what point in time will the government say "non-essential travel is permitted" while "non-essential shops" are open. Not all people own a car especially in an extremely densely populated city like London which means many turn to public transport. To add to that, the number of people not wearing face coverings on public transport has its ups and downs. Talking from the north west and not for the whole of London, there is generally a 50% spread with half wearing and the other half not. How is it expected that this enforced with wearing face coverings. TfL have definitely done very well, obviously there can be improvements but a question I ask, if a second wave does come around, are the ready for it in all the sectors?
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Post by greenboy on Jul 10, 2020 18:38:35 GMT
I don't see how it's wasteful at all providing clear signage and most drivers are enforcing limits, I saw a driver on the 53 at Elephant & Castle just a few hours ago refusing to let excessive numbers of passengers on board. Government advice on public transport couldn't be clearer....... don't use it unless your journey is essential and use a face covering and yes obviously lower limits will be reapplied if necessary. It's a fast changing situation and credit it where it's due I think TfL have done a good job with the appropriate signage. Considering if the stickers can't be reapplied, then that's my reasoning of it being wasteful, new stickers would have to be made again in the case of a second wave which wouldn't be very good. Certainly my perspective of travel has changed, yes I can walk and cycle but there are some places like school which requires a journey by public transport. At what point in time will the government say "non-essential travel is permitted" while "non-essential shops" are open. Not all people own a car especially in an extremely densely populated city like London which means many turn to public transport. To add to that, the number of people not wearing face coverings on public transport has its ups and downs. Talking from the north west and not for the whole of London, there is generally a 50% spread with half wearing and the other half not. How is it expected that this enforced with wearing face coverings. TfL have definitely done very well, obviously there can be improvements but a question I ask, if a second wave does come around, are the ready for it in all the sectors? At the moment all the government and TfL can really say is only use public transport if necessary.... from my observations the vast majority are wearing face coverings but clearly there is a certain element who think it doesn't apply to them. The capacity of each bus needs to be clearly shown or the driver has no chance of enforcing it.
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Post by foxhat on Jul 10, 2020 18:43:05 GMT
I don't see how it's wasteful at all providing clear signage and most drivers are enforcing limits, I saw a driver on the 53 at Elephant & Castle just a few hours ago refusing to let excessive numbers of passengers on board. Government advice on public transport couldn't be clearer....... don't use it unless your journey is essential and use a face covering and yes obviously lower limits will be reapplied if necessary. It's a fast changing situation and credit it where it's due I think TfL have done a good job with the appropriate signage. Considering if the stickers can't be reapplied, then that's my reasoning of it being wasteful, new stickers would have to be made again in the case of a second wave which wouldn't be very good. Certainly my perspective of travel has changed, yes I can walk and cycle but there are some places like school which requires a journey by public transport. At what point in time will the government say "non-essential travel is permitted" while "non-essential shops" are open. Not all people own a car especially in an extremely densely populated city like London which means many turn to public transport. To add to that, the number of people not wearing face coverings on public transport has its ups and downs. Talking from the north west and not for the whole of London, there is generally a 50% spread with half wearing and the other half not. How is it expected that this enforced with wearing face coverings. TfL have definitely done very well, obviously there can be improvements but a question I ask, if a second wave does come around, are the ready for it in all the sectors? Non-essential travel was removed a few weeks back when the shops reopened. Their line changed to don't use public transport unless you cannot make your journey any other way. All lines on transport are set to be dropped from the start of August. Naturally the wearing of face coverings will remain and in some sectors will be enforced more. By the time we get to the return of schools in September I cannot see how you can have any social distancing or reduced capacity on buses.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 10, 2020 19:46:54 GMT
It amazing that TFL have been withdrawing a lot of school route the ones that I know is the 618 and the 619 can any one tell me the other school route that have been withdrawn The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619:
604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route?
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Post by greg on Jul 10, 2020 19:51:41 GMT
The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619:
604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? Guess you could say the 603 stops by itself at Swiss Cottage at the first stop towards Muswell Hill. The 46 stops at a different stop, and the 603 stands before its actual first stop and before the 46 stop.
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Post by redexpress on Jul 10, 2020 20:01:07 GMT
The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619:
604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? There are a few schools that have dedicated stops within school grounds, or just outside the gates, e.g. Dame Alice Owen's at Potters Bar, Totteridge Academy for the 606. The 643 has a dedicated stop at East Finchley.
Away from school grounds, the 698 has stops on Shepiston Lane where it's the only route.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 10, 2020 22:03:51 GMT
The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619: 604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? The example I know is all stops on Parkstone Avenue & Wych Elm Lane at Emerson Park in Havering - only school routes serve the stops along their
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 10, 2020 22:45:44 GMT
The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619:
604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? A section of East End Road in Finchley is served only by school routes during the day, but also has the N20.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 11, 2020 6:07:52 GMT
384 extension to Edgware and frequency cut on the 292 will commence on 29-Aug This could free a few drivers for the extension to route 112 and even the take-up of route 139. However, many for route 139 could be TUPE'd from London Sovereign.
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Post by foxhat on Jul 11, 2020 6:21:08 GMT
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? There are a few schools that have dedicated stops within school grounds, or just outside the gates, e.g. Dame Alice Owen's at Potters Bar, Totteridge Academy for the 606. The 643 has a dedicated stop at East Finchley.
Away from school grounds, the 698 has stops on Shepiston Lane where it's the only route. And the 640 outside Bentley Wood School
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 8:23:50 GMT
The ones that I can think of, in addition to 618/619:
604 [Thornton Heath / West Norwood - Davidson Road] (temporary route during relocation of school) 609 [Hammersmith - Mortlake] (killed off by bridge closure, although I suppose it could come back if the bridge ever reopens) 620 [Biggin Hill Valley - Charles Darwin School] (one of the shortest routes, only ran in one direction - uphill!)
622 [West Drayton - Ruislip] (very short-lived route, don't know what route it took nor why it was withdrawn after less than a year) 630 [New Addington - Coney Hall] (withdrawn due to school closure although one branch of the route became the 664) 636/637 [Kemnal College - Bromley] (variants of 638) 641 [West Molesey - Teddington School] (mentioned above) 644 [Wood Green - Crouch End] (part replacement for withdrawn W2, didn't last long) 647 [Romford - Harold Hill] 653 [Thamesmead - Woolwich Common] 670 [Romford - Corbets Tey] (replaced by DD journeys on 370, which is now all-DD) 683 [Northwood Hills - Pinner] (replaced school journeys on 183, didn't last long) 684 [Wood Green - Barnet] (DD journeys on 84A/184, withdrawn without replacement) 689 [West Norwood - Earlsfield] (mentioned above, mostly covered by 690) 691 [Ham - Surbiton] (mentioned above) 693 [Green Street Green - Priory School] (part replaced by 654??) H1 [Golders Green - Henrietta Barnett School] (mostly replaced by 631) H16 [Hatch End - Pinner] (mostly replaced by DD journeys on H12, which is now all-DD)
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? The 696 at Bishop Ramsey has its own stop I believe
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2020 11:05:22 GMT
Out of curiosity, is there any bus stop served only by a school route? Grove Park Road from Mottingham Village to Chinbrook Road is only served by the 638 and (partly) the 661
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2020 11:06:59 GMT
VH45250 has also been done. Apparently the change actually came into effect from the 4th but the label printing company have had a delay and backlog ... 10000 new stickers have had to be printed ... again! Does TfL really need to waste money on these stickers! Let's face these limits are not being enforced. I assume another 10000 will be needed in a few weeks. Very wasteful. Why not just use social media to announce the new limits. Have to admit, I’ve not been enforcing it but then I’ve been nowhere near 8 passengers at a time on the R7 for months! Increasing the capacity to 11 will have zero effect - we simply aren’t carrying that many punters
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 11:20:19 GMT
Does TfL really need to waste money on these stickers! Let's face these limits are not being enforced. I assume another 10000 will be needed in a few weeks. Very wasteful. Why not just use social media to announce the new limits. Have to admit, I’ve not been enforcing it but then I’ve been nowhere near 8 passengers at a time on the R7 for months! Increasing the capacity to 11 will have zero effect - we simply aren’t carrying that many punters It will help on routes with larger buses, I see the 251, 326, 143 locally which do display the 'bus full' sign often and don't stop even outside the peaks. It's a mixed bag though if you get a driver who enforces it or if you don't. Some garages are better than others...
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Post by george on Jul 11, 2020 15:33:49 GMT
It is all about supporting small businesses at the moment and making sure they survive and people keep their livelihoods. And they will struggle to survive if many of their customers are restricted from easily arriving by public transport. I don't believe many people going to Northcote Road are arriving by bus though, most will be local. While I totally understand vjaska concerns something has to be to be done to get more people to the high street as if people don't return more and more jobs will be lost which no one wants.
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