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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 27, 2014 14:21:30 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Oct 27, 2014 14:33:14 GMT
You can't seriously be comparing London & Mumbai - it would be like comparing Arsenal & Dulwich Hamlet. I'd find it very hard if Indian bus operators had enough money to buy Citaros and Enviro 200's so obviously, they buy time expired buses from countries like the UK as it's cheap. The older buses would also be less complex to maintain and I doubt Indian bus operators have the expertise or proper premises to fix more modern and complex machines. Disabled access is something they don't consider simply because the only priority they see to have is for a bus to turn up. We have to remember that India is a developing country and also has very few safety laws.
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Post by Green Kitten on Oct 27, 2014 14:50:28 GMT
Meanwhile in Freetown, there isn't a bus in sight...
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 27, 2014 15:06:19 GMT
During this summer I was in Chennai, I thought the same. The buses aren't as bad as the Mumbai ones as they actually have LED displays. The main reason why buses in India are like this is because they need to be wide enough to take maximum capacity and they cannot have double Deckers as most of the current for houses and shops are in the air, pretty low.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Oct 27, 2014 17:59:49 GMT
They could use ex. Laymeton OmniCities here (Laymeton is my new least favourite garage in London, and it's not to do with the 275 (one of the nice routes as it uses E400s,) but 'that route which runs from Walthamstow Central to London Bridge') On a more serious note, what about ex. Hong Kong DDs? Not only do they have the capacity but also the majority are air conditioned, so would more suited to Mumbai than modified ex. London stuff.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 28, 2014 12:30:46 GMT
I've never been to India so it is very hard to comment remotely. I understand that India is slowly but surely beginning to modernise the bus fleets in major cities. Much of the money has been spent on the railways and some new Metro systems to shift the huge crowds of people. I suspect it has been extremely hard to justify expenditure on brand new buses simply because fares have traditionally been kept low because so many people are relatively poor. That is certainly a big problem for Indian Railways. India has seen strong economic growth and this gives the possibility of funding further investment. However there is also the risk that as people become a bit better off that they decide to buy cars rather than use public transport. The point made in an earlier post about skills and technology needed to maintain modern buses is also very relevant. It is not a small issue to deal with given the big step change in capability. The UK has progressively invested over many years to cope with modern buses. India is just at the start of the process as newer single decks and artics are brought into service. The manufacturers also need to build support centres in these countries so spares can be supplied and buses maintained (if done on an "all in" contract basis with the operator).
I do hope that you have your camera with you and you are taking snaps of the older buses. You never know when they will disappear and cease to be part of the city's landscape.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 28, 2014 13:25:35 GMT
I've never been to India so it is very hard to comment remotely. I understand that India is slowly but surely beginning to modernise the bus fleets in major cities. Much of the money has been spent on the railways and some new Metro systems to shift the huge crowds of people. I suspect it has been extremely hard to justify expenditure on brand new buses simply because fares have traditionally been kept low because so many people are relatively poor. That is certainly a big problem for Indian Railways. India has seen strong economic growth and this gives the possibility of funding further investment. However there is also the risk that as people become a bit better off that they decide to buy cars rather than use public transport. The point made in an earlier post about skills and technology needed to maintain modern buses is also very relevant. It is not a small issue to deal with given the big step change in capability. The UK has progressively invested over many years to cope with modern buses. India is just at the start of the process as newer single decks and artics are brought into service. The manufacturers also need to build support centres in these countries so spares can be supplied and buses maintained (if done on an "all in" contract basis with the operator). I do hope that you have your camera with you and you are taking snaps of the older buses. You never know when they will disappear and cease to be part of the city's landscape. One thing that I saw on My Trip to India this summer was this: www.flickr.com/photos/prchandran82/11771121416/One example of how India is beginning to modernize the bus fleet But a lot of people in India tend to have motorcycles and cars and so investing is not fully worthwhile for the government as they also have a lot of other problems
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Post by snowman on Oct 28, 2014 14:13:06 GMT
I have just come back from Stockholm, and the buses aren't Volvo or Scania, but they use the MAN Lion City. Travelled on some, including some euroVI versions, very smooth and quiet, probably some of the best buses I have ever been on. Some are 18m bendy buses but most are 12m versions. All have the fuel in letters above front wheel arches so see words like biodiesel bus or CNG and some marked as hybrids. Have to say the quality was streets ahead of London, not a vibration or rattle anywhere, and that included some sections of roadworks with temporary surfaces. Made some of London's fleet seem quite third world on a quality comparison.
The only double decks are tri axle sightseeing buses (most seemed to be bodied by Unvi)
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Post by snoggle on Oct 28, 2014 20:10:30 GMT
I have just come back from Stockholm, and the buses aren't Volvo or Scania, but they use the MAN Lion City. Travelled on some, including some euroVI versions, very smooth and quiet, probably some of the best buses I have ever been on. Some are 18m bendy buses but most are 12m versions. All have the fuel in letters above front wheel arches so see words like biodiesel bus or CNG and some marked as hybrids. Have to say the quality was streets ahead of London, not a vibration or rattle anywhere, and that included some sections of roadworks with temporary surfaces. Made some of London's fleet seem quite third world on a quality comparison. The only double decks are tri axle sightseeing buses (most seemed to be bodied bu Unviable) One place in Europe I have not visited but have seen loads of bus photos from is Luxembourg. The quality and range of single deck buses in use there is amazing. There is also quite a spread of private buses which are fantastically well specified and used on, I think, contract services. There is also a lot of cross border variety with neighbouring states. One thing European manufacturers tend to do well are full size single deckers but we rarely see them in the UK as they cost too much!
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 29, 2014 3:35:07 GMT
In Mumbai, they keep things for a long long time, like the buses, which as i said earlier, are around 40 years old!! Surely they need to order more efficient buses to replace the elder buses. The engines are so loud, i can hear them clearly from where I'm staying on the 8th floor
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Post by Steve80 on Oct 29, 2014 6:07:15 GMT
I been to India around 2007 in Bombay/Mumbai and Ahmdebad (can't remember the spelling) but didn't take too much notice of the buses there. I did notice the driving and I was horrified. The bus drivers seem to have it worse over there regarding drivers cutting them up. Also, I seem to recall a bus parked up on the main road with one wheel missing. I think passengers were on board while someone was fixing the bus
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 29, 2014 6:35:39 GMT
I been to India around 2007 in Bombay/Mumbai and Ahmdebad (can't remember the spelling) but didn't take too much notice of the buses there. I did notice the driving and I was horrified. The bus drivers seem to have it worse over there regarding drivers cutting them up. Also, I seem to recall a bus parked up on the main road with one wheel missing. I think passengers were on board while someone was fixing the bus I once saw one of the many Ashok Leyland buses in Mumbai on the way to the airport last year wrecked because a week before, it had rolled off a bridge. The driving here is also horrible, all the time everywhere i go, there is honking. The buses also have very weird horns. Im leaving Mumbai tomorrow for Dubai so no more honking
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2014 11:41:26 GMT
In Mumbai, they keep things for a long long time, like the buses, which as i said earlier, are around 40 years old!! Surely they need to order more efficient buses to replace the elder buses. The engines are so loud, i can hear them clearly from where I'm staying on the 8th floor People have tried to give some reasons why that is. Repeating your original "complaint" and ignoring what has been said doesn't take the discussion forward. If they can't find the money for new buses then they can't find the money. They have massive problems over housing, sanitation and health. Surely getting those issues right is much more important than new buses? No rational person would put buying new buses ahead of ensuring people don't live in slums and aren't subjected to using shared mass sanitation facilities.
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Post by tooting395 on Oct 29, 2014 19:37:40 GMT
Try Bangalore They have mostly low floor volvos and tatas, a lot better than Mumbai
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 29, 2014 19:42:52 GMT
I been to India around 2007 in Bombay/Mumbai and Ahmdebad (can't remember the spelling) but didn't take too much notice of the buses there. I did notice the driving and I was horrified. The bus drivers seem to have it worse over there regarding drivers cutting them up. Also, I seem to recall a bus parked up on the main road with one wheel missing. I think passengers were on board while someone was fixing the bus I once saw one of the many Ashok Leyland buses in Mumbai on the way to the airport last year wrecked because a week before, it had rolled off a bridge. The driving here is also horrible, all the time everywhere i go, there is honking. The buses also have very weird horns. Im leaving Mumbai tomorrow for Dubai so no more honking Dubai? Travelling on one of these by any chance? So you move from all the honking and into the fines. When I was in India this summer I was so frightened to even cross a road. They seem to have a rule in Chennai when after 12:00 you don't have to pay attention to red lights. Some of the people in India that I know say that they honk their horns whenever they feel bored
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