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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 21:27:59 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Nov 30, 2014 22:11:34 GMT
To be honest I don't know what they expect. Ilford to Manor Park is covered by the 25 and 86 as well as the W19 *provided* you can be bothered to walk a few metres down to the Romford Road. If commuters are simply waiting just for a W19 from Manor Park station to Ilford then they need to stretch their legs a little. The photos seem to be taken at Leytonstone Station which is problematic because the W15 can have long gaps and it is a busy route meaning a late bus may be so full it can't pick many people up. This is partly what causes overloading but demand between Walthamstow and Leytonstone via Whipps Cross has increased. Of course, we were going to have the 339 as far as Whipps Cross which might have taken some pressure off but that plan has been abandoned now. That leaves TfL adrift by 4 bph on the Leytonstone - Whipps Cross section. The other irony is that TfL cut back the W15's peak frequency a year or so ago but recently had to put it back up - so much for understanding what was going on. Any numpty (like me) who lives locally could have told them that was a daft thing to do.  I'd argue there is a limit to what can run beyond Walthamstow Central because the Argall Avenue bit is quite tight because of parked cars. Forever upping frequency will just cause buses to get stuck on that section which won't help reliability. I think it's a bit too early after a frequency increase for people to be immediately demanding another one. If Go Ahead are struggling to run reliably then that will get picked up via TfL's usual monitoring and steps taken to rectify it. Perhaps we could have a mini restructure of the W routes? W11 stays as is W15 stays as is W19 taken away from Argall avenue to provide service down Palmerston Road to turn somewhere on Higham Hill Road. Shorter run distance should allow a marginal higher frequency on the rest of the route. People in Higham Hill get extra buses but a choice of routes to Walthamstow Central W14 extended from Leyton ASDA via Orient Way and Argall Avenue to Walthamstow Central  Opens new links and gives a N-S link to the new Lea Bridge station when it eventually opens. Also serves Orient Way with a bus service which should be very quick. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 30, 2014 23:04:40 GMT
Is there anything preventing this route being Decked?
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Post by Trident on Nov 30, 2014 23:16:49 GMT
Is there anything preventing this route being Decked? There's a low bridge at Whipps Cross Hospital which prevents Double Deckers entering the main premises. |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 30, 2014 23:34:40 GMT
Is there anything preventing this route being Decked? There's a low bridge at Whipps Cross Hospital which prevents Double Deckers entering the main premises. You could reroute via James Lane and Whipps Cross Road but I expect that would be deeply unpopular with people wanting hospital access even though it is only a short walk into the hospital complex from either road. I also wonder if there is something at the Council depot at Low Hall Farm which the W19 cuts through. I've only used the W19 down there once but I have a vague memory of some sort of height restrictor to specifically prevent tall vehicles running through the council depot area. |
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Post by TA1 on Dec 1, 2014 6:20:10 GMT
There's a low bridge at Whipps Cross Hospital which prevents Double Deckers entering the main premises. You could reroute via James Lane and Whipps Cross Road but I expect that would be deeply unpopular with people wanting hospital access even though it is only a short walk into the hospital complex from either road. I also wonder if there is something at the Council depot at Low Hall Farm which the W19 cuts through. I've only used the W19 down there once but I have a vague memory of some sort of height restrictor to specifically prevent tall vehicles running through the council depot area. There's no height restrictions as such through the council depot, South Access Road is slightly narrow to traverse down especially with the parked cars on either side, or if the buses meet on the road or a jam is caused by the refuse trucks simultaneously returning to the depot. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Dec 1, 2014 9:21:42 GMT
Good on the passengers for doing a commuter led report.
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Post by routew15 on Dec 1, 2014 18:22:31 GMT
Overcrowding is a problem on three of the buses that leave this side of Leytonstone station. The overall route capacity (the frequency, size of the bus and the amount of buses allocated to the route) does not match the increased demand of the W19. The frequency is still quite low, the size of bus is mainly short (although some longer buses make cameo appreances), the amount of buses allocated to the route is also quite low. (Just like the W16) The Saturday and Sunday levels are consistent. A 339 extension via Whipps Cross Hospital would help remove passengers from Leytonstone Station to WCH but would not remove demand from Ilford/ Manor Park.
I do appreciate the improvements made so far because the W19 has come a long way from just 5 buses every 30 mins. It is also a good thing the W19 was not extended to Aldborough Hatch because I'm sure there would be problems at that ends of the route as well.
Ideally in the Long term, what needs to happen is Whipps Cross Hospital rebuilding/ removing the bridge across Hospital Road so that double decker buses can pass underneath, the W19 could then operate DD Mon-Sat (like the 357 does).
In the Mid term, I think the next contract will ensure minimum of 10.2m (possibly 10.8m) buses are used, a vehicle increase from 11 - 13 buses during the peak, I don't think an operator change will happen, but I would not complain if there was an Arriva/ Stagecoach or Tower Transit win.
In the Short term, I think there will be more tweaking to the timetable and possibly more timetabled short working (i.e. Ilford to Walthamstow Central or from Argall Avenue to Manor Park).
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Post by paul55 on Dec 2, 2014 15:15:05 GMT
To be honest I don't know what they expect. Ilford to Manor Park is covered by the 25 and 86 as well as the W19 *provided* you can be bothered to walk a few metres down to the Romford Road. If commuters are simply waiting just for a W19 from Manor Park station to Ilford then they need to stretch their legs a little. The photos seem to be taken at Leytonstone Station which is problematic because the W15 can have long gaps and it is a busy route meaning a late bus may be so full it can't pick many people up. This is partly what causes overloading but demand between Walthamstow and Leytonstone via Whipps Cross has increased. Of course, we were going to have the 339 as far as Whipps Cross which might have taken some pressure off but that plan has been abandoned now. That leaves TfL adrift by 4 bph on the Leytonstone - Whipps Cross section. The other irony is that TfL cut back the W15's peak frequency a year or so ago but recently had to put it back up - so much for understanding what was going on. Any numpty (like me) who lives locally could have told them that was a daft thing to do. I'd argue there is a limit to what can run beyond Walthamstow Central because the Argall Avenue bit is quite tight because of parked cars. Forever upping frequency will just cause buses to get stuck on that section which won't help reliability. I think it's a bit too early after a frequency increase for people to be immediately demanding another one. If Go Ahead are struggling to run reliably then that will get picked up via TfL's usual monitoring and steps taken to rectify it. Perhaps we could have a mini restructure of the W routes? W11 stays as is W15 stays as is W19 taken away from Argall avenue to provide service down Palmerston Road to turn somewhere on Higham Hill Road. Shorter run distance should allow a marginal higher frequency on the rest of the route. People in Higham Hill get extra buses but a choice of routes to Walthamstow Central W14 extended from Leyton ASDA via Orient Way and Argall Avenue to Walthamstow Central Opens new links and gives a N-S link to the new Lea Bridge station when it eventually opens. Also serves Orient Way with a bus service which should be very quick. During the morning peak severe overcrowding is problematic from Ilford & Manor Park to points beyond Manor Park Station on buses towards Walthamstow. Passengers are being left behind at stops through Manor Park, along Aldersbrook Road, Blake Hall Road and at Leytonstone Station to Whipps Cross in large numbers, on a daily basis. Use of the W19 buses to travel between the Romford Road & Manor Park station is largely irrelevant. The first photo was taken at Manor Park Station last Tuesday morning (25th November 2014). The bus departed crammed full and many intending passengers were left behind. The same was true of the following departure, though there was an extended interval between buses. As you point out, TFL's monitoring should be picking up irregulatities in the service. However, even when the service operates reliably, successive buses carry the maximum number of standing passengers leaving people behind at stops. The timetable changes on 21st June failed to rectify this. The off-peak service is significantly improved but this is of little consolation to people trying to get to work, school, college & early appointments at Whipps Cross Hospital, during the morning peak. Your reference to peak hour changes made to the W15 is probably aposite in relation to the W19. It does at times appear that TFL fails to understand what is actually going on. Computer models and projections may give part of the picture but a trip on th W19 from Ilford to Walthamstow at 08.00am on a weekday could provide a completely different view of things. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 4, 2014 14:24:19 GMT
During the morning peak severe overcrowding is problematic from Ilford & Manor Park to points beyond Manor Park Station on buses towards Walthamstow. Passengers are being left behind at stops through Manor Park, along Aldersbrook Road, Blake Hall Road and at Leytonstone Station to Whipps Cross in large numbers, on a daily basis. Use of the W19 buses to travel between the Romford Road & Manor Park station is largely irrelevant. The first photo was taken at Manor Park Station last Tuesday morning (25th November 2014). The bus departed crammed full and many intending passengers were left behind. The same was true of the following departure, though there was an extended interval between buses. As you point out, TFL's monitoring should be picking up irregulatities in the service. However, even when the service operates reliably, successive buses carry the maximum number of standing passengers leaving people behind at stops. The timetable changes on 21st June failed to rectify this. The off-peak service is significantly improved but this is of little consolation to people trying to get to work, school, college & early appointments at Whipps Cross Hospital, during the morning peak. Your reference to peak hour changes made to the W15 is probably aposite in relation to the W19. It does at times appear that TFL fails to understand what is actually going on. Computer models and projections may give part of the picture but a trip on th W19 from Ilford to Walthamstow at 08.00am on a weekday could provide a completely different view of things. Thank you for the extra insight. I must say I am a bit surprised that that stretch is as busy as it clearly is based on your comments. I haven't used it at the height of the peak and have never seen it that overloaded off peak. Busy yes but not overloaded. Makes me wonder whether they need to tweak the 101 route to get closer to the Green Man roundabout to get people to Leytonstone town centre. It's also the case that TfL didn't strip out the former AM peak extra to Walthamstow so for nearly an hour there is a x12 headway from Ilford to Walthamstow - presumably to cater for the demand on offer. It's deeply ironic that this link used to be once a hour with the Thamesway 551 and hardly carried anyone! |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 21, 2014 19:50:20 GMT
To be honest I don't know what they expect. Ilford to Manor Park is covered by the 25 and 86 as well as the W19 *provided* you can be bothered to walk a few metres down to the Romford Road. If commuters are simply waiting just for a W19 from Manor Park station to Ilford then they need to stretch their legs a little. The photos seem to be taken at Leytonstone Station which is problematic because the W15 can have long gaps and it is a busy route meaning a late bus may be so full it can't pick many people up. This is partly what causes overloading but demand between Walthamstow and Leytonstone via Whipps Cross has increased. Of course, we were going to have the 339 as far as Whipps Cross which might have taken some pressure off but that plan has been abandoned now. That leaves TfL adrift by 4 bph on the Leytonstone - Whipps Cross section. The other irony is that TfL cut back the W15's peak frequency a year or so ago but recently had to put it back up - so much for understanding what was going on. Any numpty (like me) who lives locally could have told them that was a daft thing to do. I'd argue there is a limit to what can run beyond Walthamstow Central because the Argall Avenue bit is quite tight because of parked cars. Forever upping frequency will just cause buses to get stuck on that section which won't help reliability. I think it's a bit too early after a frequency increase for people to be immediately demanding another one. If Go Ahead are struggling to run reliably then that will get picked up via TfL's usual monitoring and steps taken to rectify it. Perhaps we could have a mini restructure of the W routes? W11 stays as is W15 stays as is W19 taken away from Argall avenue to provide service down Palmerston Road to turn somewhere on Higham Hill Road. Shorter run distance should allow a marginal higher frequency on the rest of the route. People in Higham Hill get extra buses but a choice of routes to Walthamstow Central W14 extended from Leyton ASDA via Orient Way and Argall Avenue to Walthamstow Central Opens new links and gives a N-S link to the new Lea Bridge station when it eventually opens. Also serves Orient Way with a bus service which should be very quick. Even if the W15 is running to time without much delays, the W19 still takes a slaughtering. I think part of the problem is it needed bigger buses. Even departing Leytonstone towards Manor Park, they leave full. Some people who cannot get onto it from Whipps Cross/James Lane use a W15 then get off at Leytonstone to get a chance of getting on it. Heading back to Walthamstow they do arriva full although some people would alight at Leytonstone, but then others just full it right up. From around 8am-9:15am the majority of W15/W19 leaving Leytonstone station is full with mainly students/hospital workers & patients coming off the Central line and other bus routes from the east bus station. The refub of the ED's was nice; but it really needed 10.2m buses on the route. It is also a shame the 339 wasn't extended to Whipps Cross.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 21, 2014 19:58:31 GMT
During the morning peak severe overcrowding is problematic from Ilford & Manor Park to points beyond Manor Park Station on buses towards Walthamstow. Passengers are being left behind at stops through Manor Park, along Aldersbrook Road, Blake Hall Road and at Leytonstone Station to Whipps Cross in large numbers, on a daily basis. Use of the W19 buses to travel between the Romford Road & Manor Park station is largely irrelevant. The first photo was taken at Manor Park Station last Tuesday morning (25th November 2014). The bus departed crammed full and many intending passengers were left behind. The same was true of the following departure, though there was an extended interval between buses. As you point out, TFL's monitoring should be picking up irregulatities in the service. However, even when the service operates reliably, successive buses carry the maximum number of standing passengers leaving people behind at stops. The timetable changes on 21st June failed to rectify this. The off-peak service is significantly improved but this is of little consolation to people trying to get to work, school, college & early appointments at Whipps Cross Hospital, during the morning peak. Your reference to peak hour changes made to the W15 is probably aposite in relation to the W19. It does at times appear that TFL fails to understand what is actually going on. Computer models and projections may give part of the picture but a trip on th W19 from Ilford to Walthamstow at 08.00am on a weekday could provide a completely different view of things. Thank you for the extra insight. I must say I am a bit surprised that that stretch is as busy as it clearly is based on your comments. I haven't used it at the height of the peak and have never seen it that overloaded off peak. Busy yes but not overloaded. Makes me wonder whether they need to tweak the 101 route to get closer to the Green Man roundabout to get people to Leytonstone town centre. It's also the case that TfL didn't strip out the former AM peak extra to Walthamstow so for nearly an hour there is a x12 headway from Ilford to Walthamstow - presumably to cater for the demand on offer. It's deeply ironic that this link used to be once a hour with the Thamesway 551 and hardly carried anyone! The Thamesway 551's biggest problem was the tickets arrangements and lack of timetable info. People looked at it as though it was like a coach service or non TfL route. Many times people just left it to go by like the 251 even though it was going to where they would go. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 21, 2014 21:00:50 GMT
Even if the W15 is running to time without much delays, the W19 still takes a slaughtering. I think part of the problem is it needed bigger buses. Even departing Leytonstone towards Manor Park, they leave full. Some people who cannot get onto it from Whipps Cross/James Lane use a W15 then get off at Leytonstone to get a chance of getting on it. Heading back to Walthamstow they do arriva full although some people would alight at Leytonstone, but then others just full it right up. From around 8am-9:15am the majority of W15/W19 leaving Leytonstone station is full with mainly students/hospital workers & patients coming off the Central line and other bus routes from the east bus station. The refub of the ED's was nice; but it really needed 10.2m buses on the route. It is also a shame the 339 wasn't extended to Whipps Cross. Perhaps then the answer is to divert the W19 away from serving Whipps Cross Hospital Grounds and convert it to double deck? I recognise that is not 100% ideal but the stops on James Lane and Whipps Cross Road aren't that far from the hospital entrances. The alternative is to keep adding more and more frequency to try to cope with demand and all that then happens is more and more demand because frequency is such a big influence on demand. I also think more and more buses will just lead to jams on the narrower sections of the route - through Leytonstone and down to Argall Avenue. I am more and more convinced that TfL need to change their tack with the 339 and curtail it at Stratford City. The resource could then be used for a new route from Stratford City to Waltham Forest and certainly to and through Whipps Cross. I've made other suggestions before about where the new route could run on to from Whipps Cross roundabout to create new links and relieve some other corridors. This gives more flexibility for TfL to cope with the demand on from Leytonstone Station. The other area which is more than 400m away from a bus route is the area between Highams Park and Chingford Road off Higham Station Avenue. There is no longer a through route for traffic in this area but there are loads of houses which are more than 400m from a bus stop. You could justify a route off Chingford Road down Higham Station Avenue plus another off from Highams Park Station and looping round the Cavendish Road one way loop. You might need small buses on it or ideally a bus gate at Nelson Road / Selwyn Avenue. You could adapt the 385 to run down Higham Station Avenue right to the end of Lena Kennedy Close where there is a small roundabout to allow vehicles to turn. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 24, 2014 15:59:17 GMT
Interesting Mayor's Question and Answer from the most recent meeting.
W19 Overcrowding
Question No: 2014/5142
Andrew Boff
What does the data reveal about the level of overcrowding on the W19 since the frequency of the buses was increased in June?
Written response from the Mayor
TfL increased the frequency on route W19 in June 2014 from a bus every 20 minutes to one every 15 minutes. In the morning peak hour towards Walthamstow, frequency increased from a bus every 15 minutes to one every 12 minutes. Usage has increased by just over 20 per cent compared to the same period last year. TfL is now
reviewing the detailed impacts including capacity and will let you know the outcome. This is expected in February.
The scale of increase in demand is the somewhat startling factor.
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Post by paul55 on Dec 25, 2014 0:47:26 GMT
Interesting Mayor's Question and Answer from the most recent meeting. W19 Overcrowding Question No: 2014/5142 Andrew Boff What does the data reveal about the level of overcrowding on the W19 since the frequency of the buses was increased in June? Written response from the Mayor TfL increased the frequency on route W19 in June 2014 from a bus every 20 minutes to one every 15 minutes. In the morning peak hour towards Walthamstow, frequency increased from a bus every 15 minutes to one every 12 minutes. Usage has increased by just over 20 per cent compared to the same period last year. TfL is now reviewing the detailed impacts including capacity and will let you know the outcome. This is expected in February. The scale of increase in demand is the somewhat startling factor. Thanks for posting this. I had been aware of Andrew Boff AM's question but not of TFL's reply. As you say the scale of the increase is startling and tends to bear out what passengers are experiencing, particularly at the busiest times. On a positive note it does appear that TFL is carrying out a serious review so roll on February when perhaps some solutions will be offered. |
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Opens new links and gives a N-S link to the new Lea Bridge station when it eventually opens. Also serves Orient Way with a bus service which should be very quick.
