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Post by snoggle on Mar 11, 2015 15:48:06 GMT
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 11, 2015 17:34:08 GMT
Hmmm so what happens when the warranty period is over?
Beggars belief that Boris has not been called up on this they're a completely pointless bus in opo mode.
As said would have been miles cheaper to buy existing hybrids and I'm sure if you told a manufacturer they were getting an exclusive order direct from tfl for 800 buses then the tech would have improved.
All this money wasted on Boris buses yet tfl refuse to do stuff that actually help passengers.
But I shouldn't really be surprised tfl love wasting money like getting rid of perfectly good bus stops with countdown displays and not replacing the display.
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 11, 2015 17:44:12 GMT
Hmmm so what happens when the warranty period is over? Beggars belief that Boris has not been called up on this they're a completely pointless bus in opo mode. As said would have been miles cheaper to buy existing hybrids and I'm sure if you told a manufacturer they were getting an exclusive order direct from tfl for 800 buses then the tech would have improved. All this money wasted on Boris buses yet tfl refuse to do stuff that actually help passengers. But I shouldn't really be surprised tfl love wasting money like getting rid of perfectly good bus stops with countdown displays and not replacing the display. Warranty worries?  Thank god for Coverplan  Those conceited thingies Daniels and Hendy have loved wasting our hard earned cash on these things without proper testing first... We could have at least spent the money on electrification of the GOBLIN (Gospel Oak - Barking line) or if not that, then LED displays for existing buses so we can move out of the stone age... The d*mn thing doesn't even have air-con! I'm sure they stole that line of 'Marmite' buses from a fellow poster here commenting on the StreetDeck last week  |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 11, 2015 18:00:45 GMT
ServerKing - to be fair the GOBLIN electrification is fully funded and planning work is now underway. That's one thing where unrelenting political pressure has resulted in a good result. The only issue is that the wires might be up by late 2017 but no EMUs available for up to a year later. This is from a recent Twitter session with London Overground where I asked them questions about the timings. It's also clear that Blackhorse Road, and possibly other places, may see capacity enhancement work (lifts, wider stairs, wider footbridge) to deal with larger numbers of people.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 11, 2015 18:41:26 GMT
Hmmm so what happens when the warranty period is over? Beggars belief that Boris has not been called up on this they're a completely pointless bus in opo mode. As said would have been miles cheaper to buy existing hybrids and I'm sure if you told a manufacturer they were getting an exclusive order direct from tfl for 800 buses then the tech would have improved. All this money wasted on Boris buses yet tfl refuse to do stuff that actually help passengers. But I shouldn't really be surprised tfl love wasting money like getting rid of perfectly good bus stops with countdown displays and not replacing the display. I can't agree with this more, as a bus per se, the NB4L is a good bus, but as a solution to the problem of moving people to and fro as reliably, cheaply and comfortably as possible it's useless, especially if the vast majority of them are to be used as OPO buses. I'm certain that the money would've been better spent on 800 MMC/Gemini 3 hybrids. Hopefully the new mayor will bring to a halt this excessive overbuying and more critally the overuse of OPO coversions. |
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Post by astock5000 on Mar 11, 2015 19:05:23 GMT
I don't really see how this is particularly newsworthy. It would appear that there is an issue but it is already being solved by replacing the batteries. Also the quote from Mike Weston, saying that the engine runs longer when there's a problem with the batteries, would suggest it hasn't resulted in an excessive amount of breakdowns and disruption to services. Of course the NBfL is a high-profile design and is associated with Boris, so the media are much more likely to report on problems than they would with any other buses. However I think this is likely to lead to people believing the problem to be a lot more serious than it actually is. I'll admit that the NBfL is one of my favourite bus types, but I doubt my opinion on this issue would be much different if I didn't like the design.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 11, 2015 19:32:26 GMT
I don't really see how this is particularly newsworthy. It would appear that there is an issue but it is already being solved by replacing the batteries. Also the quote from Mike Weston, saying that the engine runs longer when there's a problem with the batteries, would suggest it hasn't resulted in an excessive amount of breakdowns and disruption to services. Of course the NBfL is a high-profile design and is associated with Boris, so the media are much more likely to report on problems than they would with any other buses. However I think this is likely to lead to people believing the problem to be a lot more serious than it actually is. I'll admit that the NBfL is one of my favourite bus types, but I doubt my opinion on this issue would be much different if I didn't like the design. Three comments by way of response 1. It at least explains why so many NB4Ls have been running with their engines thumping away rather than gliding silently along the road. I've long been puzzled about that. 2. Do you not think it odd that a new supposedly cutting edge and yet "fully tested" design of bus should be having battery problems this early in its life? Can anyone name a mass produced hybrid decker (so not prototypes) that has had similar issues? The E40H? The Volvo B5L? 3. What does running on the diesel engine all the time do to the fuel economy / emissions performance stats that TfL and the Mayor have made such a song and dance about? I don't think anyone knows about the level of breakdowns related to the battery issue - no stats are available (yet!). Nonetheless we know the NB4L has had a bit of a reputation for breakdowns and we are still seeing conventional buses substitute for NB4Ls many months after they entered service. I am not saying any of the above are show stoppers but it does rather spoil some of the claims made for the vehicle. |
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Post by astock5000 on Mar 11, 2015 20:16:58 GMT
1. It at least explains why so many NB4Ls have been running with their engines thumping away rather than gliding silently along the road. I've long been puzzled about that. Yes, I had also been wondering about that. 2. Do you not think it odd that a new supposedly cutting edge and yet "fully tested" design of bus should be having battery problems this early in its life? Can anyone name a mass produced hybrid decker (so not prototypes) that has had similar issues? The E40H? The Volvo B5L? I'm not aware of any other types having this problem. I don't think it's that strange though, it is sometimes the case that an issue with a vehicle isn't found until production batches are in service, even when extensive testing has taken place. 3. What does running on the diesel engine all the time do to the fuel economy / emissions performance stats that TfL and the Mayor have made such a song and dance about? I don't think anyone knows about the level of breakdowns related to the battery issue - no stats are available (yet!). Nonetheless we know the NB4L has had a bit of a reputation for breakdowns and we are still seeing conventional buses substitute for NB4Ls many months after they entered service. I am not saying any of the above are show stoppers but it does rather spoil some of the claims made for the vehicle. That's a good point. I wonder how long some buses have had the issue, and whether it would have affected any performance stats that have already been published. While we don't know for sure, Mike Weston's comments did imply that the battery issue doesn't directly result in a complete breakdown. I'm not saying LTs are just as reliable as other designs, once again we don't know, but it's reputation could partly be a result of people taking more notice when they see a broken down LT. Other than on routes which had just converted (and the 148, which has had two buses temporarily transferred away from the route) the conventional buses have often been operating in place of LTs which have been damaged in accidents. I didn't mean to suggest that the problem doesn't matter at all, just that we should be careful not to exaggerate it. |
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 11, 2015 21:32:49 GMT
I don't really see how this is particularly newsworthy. It would appear that there is an issue but it is already being solved by replacing the batteries. Also the quote from Mike Weston, saying that the engine runs longer when there's a problem with the batteries, would suggest it hasn't resulted in an excessive amount of breakdowns and disruption to services. Of course the NBfL is a high-profile design and is associated with Boris, so the media are much more likely to report on problems than they would with any other buses. However I think this is likely to lead to people believing the problem to be a lot more serious than it actually is. I'll admit that the NBfL is one of my favourite bus types, but I doubt my opinion on this issue would be much different if I didn't like the design. Three comments by way of response 1. It at least explains why so many NB4Ls have been running with their engines thumping away rather than gliding silently along the road. I've long been puzzled about that. 2. Do you not think it odd that a new supposedly cutting edge and yet "fully tested" design of bus should be having battery problems this early in its life? Can anyone name a mass produced hybrid decker (so not prototypes) that has had similar issues? The E40H? The Volvo B5L? 3. What does running on the diesel engine all the time do to the fuel economy / emissions performance stats that TfL and the Mayor have made such a song and dance about? I don't think anyone knows about the level of breakdowns related to the battery issue - no stats are available (yet!). Nonetheless we know the NB4L has had a bit of a reputation for breakdowns and we are still seeing conventional buses substitute for NB4Ls many months after they entered service. I am not saying any of the above are show stoppers but it does rather spoil some of the claims made for the vehicle. Bang on the money yet again, snoggle. It's not a good as the B5LH (whose electric motor helps the bus as it moves off before the diesel cuts in and helps) or as I understand it the ADL hybrid which has the 4.5l Cummins and an electric motor permanently share the load. I am not too clued up on the NBFL's tech but it seems to be a generator, like what modern diesel trains use. Diesel charges generator, which in turn powers an electric traction motor to make things move. Perhaps the batteries just store some energy when the bus is coasting or braking, like the MicroHybrid tech in the Streetlite. Nearly all the NRM's I've seen have not exactly been silent, the last one I went on was about as noisy as the Woolwich Ferry  not sure if that was the so-called 'Air Handling unit' trying to cool the upper deck (I use the word 'cool' loosely) I've not known any of the E40H's to have an issue aside from the brakes are a little too good and bite like Louis Suarez which can (literally) throw you when you're getting ready to get off, though this was on the first ones on the 189 about 5 years ago and I'm sure it was just down to drivers getting used to it. All the B5LH's have been perfect, AFAIK. Love the design of the NBFL / NRM, but the mechanics seem questionable. Probably why the HW's (only 4?) had such a short term at Wood Green, and even HEV1 and Go-Ahead's example didn't last too long... The NBFL is more a product of political will than research. An engine, albeit a small Transit-derived unit, in a constant state of thrash (though sound drowned out by other ancillaries) to get such a heavy vehicle to move / charge batteries etc cannot be good for the environment  |
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Post by M1104 on Mar 12, 2015 7:26:30 GMT
Three comments by way of response 1. It at least explains why so many NB4Ls have been running with their engines thumping away rather than gliding silently along the road. I've long been puzzled about that. 2. Do you not think it odd that a new supposedly cutting edge and yet "fully tested" design of bus should be having battery problems this early in its life? Can anyone name a mass produced hybrid decker (so not prototypes) that has had similar issues? The E40H? The Volvo B5L? 3. What does running on the diesel engine all the time do to the fuel economy / emissions performance stats that TfL and the Mayor have made such a song and dance about? I don't think anyone knows about the level of breakdowns related to the battery issue - no stats are available (yet!). Nonetheless we know the NB4L has had a bit of a reputation for breakdowns and we are still seeing conventional buses substitute for NB4Ls many months after they entered service. I am not saying any of the above are show stoppers but it does rather spoil some of the claims made for the vehicle. Bang on the money yet again, snoggle. It's not a good as the B5LH (whose electric motor helps the bus as it moves off before the diesel cuts in and helps) or as I understand it the ADL hybrid which has the 4.5l Cummins and an electric motor permanently share the load. The euro6 E40Hs (standard and MMC) actually go into battery mode for roughly the same frequency and length of time as the B5LH. Their euro5 variants as you say permenantly share the load....baring one or two individual experimentals. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2015 17:56:24 GMT
And here come the entirely predictable Mayor's Questions! |
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Post by T.R. on Mar 18, 2015 18:25:47 GMT
Having only just discovered this thread, I'm not surprised in the slightest - not a single day goes by without crewing a bus in diesel mode. Infact just last week I achieved a new trophy, The Diesel Detriment. (complete a whole duty with all buses running diesel mode) |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2015 18:31:58 GMT
Having only just discovered this thread, I'm not surprised in the slightest - not a single day goes by without crewing a bus in diesel mode. Infact just last week I achieved a new trophy, The Diesel Detriment. (complete a whole duty with all buses running diesel mode) Hmm - interesting given your buses on the 38 are largely newer buses. |
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 18, 2015 20:09:49 GMT
Having only just discovered this thread, I'm not surprised in the slightest - not a single day goes by without crewing a bus in diesel mode. Infact just last week I achieved a new trophy, The Diesel Detriment. (complete a whole duty with all buses running diesel mode) Hmm - interesting given your buses on the 38 are largely newer buses. I saw one of the 55's new LT's (making an odd journey up Kingsland Road having kicked off passengers in Old Street  ) and it seemed as quiet as a mouse unless the new Euro6 engine is quieter than the Euro5 one... I think the whole 'hybrid' thing in this case of justifying the LT's existence is a joke, and they actually are worse than a conventional bus But every other LT I've seen (and heard) seems to be in diesel mode |
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not sure if that was the so-called 'Air Handling unit' trying to cool the upper deck (I use the word 'cool' loosely)
) and it seemed as quiet as a mouse unless the new Euro6 engine is quieter than the Euro5 one... I think