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Post by paulo on Oct 6, 2015 6:59:18 GMT
The 391 already has Double Decks allocated to the route. I would rather think that the 490 needs some sought of Double Deck workings in peak hours because the buses are packed full right up to the front door at these times. People often have to wait multiple buses till they can squeeze themselves on. I know that the H22 can't be double decked due to some height restriction down the route and it dosen't really get full at all during off peak times. But the 490 has no excuse. It has no restrictions in place to allow DD workings, however TF don't have any. I also think the 490 should go 24/7 along with the 235 which should be double decked as well. More chance of a short e200 than double decking. wrong allocations are so common on TF routes they don't even show up as rare on LVF anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 8:23:44 GMT
I also think the 490 should go 24/7 along with the 235 which should be double decked as well. More chance of a short e200 than double decking. wrong allocations are so common on TF routes they don't even show up as rare on LVF anymore. Well quite. Can't help but think TfL opt for the cheap single deck bids for these routes. Hopefully they will get better buses, preferably with other operators. Having said that Abellio pull off the reliability performance well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 18:36:24 GMT
Yeah, I have also found that the connections between Richmond and Putney have been so bad, with the 337 being the only route. I think that there should be a route tracing the N22 between Putney Bridge and Fulwell, or maybe it could go past Fulwell?
My point is, that corridor needs to be improved
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 19:40:18 GMT
Just a few points.I don't think it necessary to extend the 22 from putney to mortlake as the 485 goes right into Barnes where you can connect with the 209 at Barnes pond,also I know in Barnes /Roehampton area there was a campaign to extend the 22 to Roehampton but again is it required cause the 85 430 link putney bridge and putney to Roehampton also via putney common the 265 goes to Roehampton then a couple of stops ahead at Barnes station the very frequent 72 then one stop further at Barnes common rosslyn park the 493.I still believe the 72 should b extended to asda,cause it seems strange it stopping short of the superstore. I think the 209 should b diverted to omit avondale Rd in mortlake and extend a couple of stops further down mortlake high street to sheen lane,bringing the service closer to east sheen could turn around and park outside the brewery-maybe a consideration once the brewery is redeveloped.I believe the latest target date to close hammersmith bridge for a year for strengthening is next spring.for those not aware it was tfl who requested the strengthening of the bridge to enable double deck buses to return to the bridge. If this does happen I guess the 33 72 609 and possibly 283 would convert to double deck buses. But I reckon the 209 419 485 have sufficient capacity to remain single Decker. The main point of extending the 22 is a direct link to central London from Mortlake which will take some pressure off the 209, the 430 could be withdrawn and replaced by extending the 74 to Roehampton as suggested in another thread and the buses saved there used for the 22 extension. The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 15, 2015 21:33:25 GMT
The main point of extending the 22 is a direct link to central London from Mortlake which will take some pressure off the 209, the 430 could be withdrawn and replaced by extending the 74 to Roehampton as suggested in another thread and the buses saved there used for the 22 extension. The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there The 485 isn't pointless - it provides a much used link between Putney High Street & Barnes. I don't know what you mean by a normal route but I agree that a Sunday service might be beneficial. A bigger benefit would be to extend it to the 28 & 220's stand so it serves the Southside centre in Wandsworth. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 15:45:14 GMT
The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there The 485 isn't pointless - it provides a much used link between Putney High Street & Barnes. I don't know what you mean by a normal route but I agree that a Sunday service might be beneficial. A bigger benefit would be to extend it to the 28 & 220's stand so it serves the Southside centre in Wandsworth. Good Point, Vjaska. What I mean by a normal route is a route that operates about every 10-15 minutes |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 16, 2015 20:38:01 GMT
The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there Gosh - every 30 mins and it's useless! Don't move to Havering. Having used the 347, 4 rtn jnys a day, and the 375, every 90 mins, in Havering this week it's completely clear to me that both of those routes are valued. The 347 wasn't exactly heaving with people but it did get a number of old people to and from the shops and a community centre to see friends. There were also two people, other than me, that did it end to end. The 375 was also busy with a wide mix of people using it to (for me) quite unexpected places but even at 90 min headways there's still a value for people. On the return journey there were people going home from work and others heading into Romford. We are very spoilt in London given the generous service levels in most places. However low frequency services are NOT useless for those who value them and use them. As soon as you start dismissing low frequency services as "useless" you open the door for them to be withdrawn and for people to lose access to their local areas and beyond and to prevent others from reaching those places. |
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Post by RT3062 on Oct 16, 2015 20:54:47 GMT
The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there Gosh - every 30 mins and it's useless! Don't move to Havering. Having used the 347, 4 rtn jnys a day, and the 375, every 90 mins, in Havering this week it's completely clear to me that both of those routes are valued. The 347 wasn't exactly heaving with people but it did get a number of old people to and from the shops and a community centre to see friends. There were also two people, other than me, that did it end to end. The 375 was also busy with a wide mix of people using it to (for me) quite unexpected places but even at 90 min headways there's still a value for people. On the return journey there were people going home from work and others heading into Romford. We are very spoilt in London given the generous service levels in most places. However low frequency services are NOT useless for those who value them and use them. As soon as you start dismissing low frequency services as "useless" you open the door for them to be withdrawn and for people to lose access to their local areas and beyond and to prevent others from reaching those places. if you are traveling from ockendon to romford the 347 is slightly quicker than the 370 |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2015 21:16:48 GMT
The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there Gosh - every 30 mins and it's useless! Don't move to Havering. Having used the 347, 4 rtn jnys a day, and the 375, every 90 mins, in Havering this week it's completely clear to me that both of those routes are valued. The 347 wasn't exactly heaving with people but it did get a number of old people to and from the shops and a community centre to see friends. There were also two people, other than me, that did it end to end. The 375 was also busy with a wide mix of people using it to (for me) quite unexpected places but even at 90 min headways there's still a value for people. On the return journey there were people going home from work and others heading into Romford. We are very spoilt in London given the generous service levels in most places. However low frequency services are NOT useless for those who value them and use them. As soon as you start dismissing low frequency services as "useless" you open the door for them to be withdrawn and for people to lose access to their local areas and beyond and to prevent others from reaching those places. Now you see why I proposed a while ago to double the 347 to every 30 minutes as there is a good scope for the route - when I did it, the bus was more than half filled and as you mention, it provides the elderly with a link amongst providing a local link from Upminster to the St. Mary's Lane area beyond the Cranham low bridge. |
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Post by Paul on Oct 17, 2015 11:54:40 GMT
The 485 is pointless because it only comes every 30 minutes anyways and I find that it is very unreliable. If you want to touch the 485 route then convert it to normal route and let it run on Sundays. Also I suggest no new routes to roehampton because it is such a mess there Gosh - every 30 mins and it's useless! Don't move to Havering. Having used the 347, 4 rtn jnys a day, and the 375, every 90 mins, in Havering this week it's completely clear to me that both of those routes are valued. The 347 wasn't exactly heaving with people but it did get a number of old people to and from the shops and a community centre to see friends. There were also two people, other than me, that did it end to end. The 375 was also busy with a wide mix of people using it to (for me) quite unexpected places but even at 90 min headways there's still a value for people. On the return journey there were people going home from work and others heading into Romford. We are very spoilt in London given the generous service levels in most places. However low frequency services are NOT useless for those who value them and use them. As soon as you start dismissing low frequency services as "useless" you open the door for them to be withdrawn and for people to lose access to their local areas and beyond and to prevent others from reaching those places. It's very true that the 'ultra low frequency' services are often first on the chopping block because they are perceived as 'useless.' But as you rightly say, they often provide an extremely useful link and are highly valued by those that use them. This week on the R5/R10s we've been curtailed to Knockholt Pound during the day due to roadworks on Main Road. This meant that a huge part of the route was not served during the day meaning massive inconvenience to our regular passengers. Thankfully, we drivers managed to convey news of the closure to most of our regulars so to the best of my knowledge no one ended up stranded but the inconvenience was still there. It's at times like that one truly understands the value these sorts of routes have |
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Post by sid on Oct 17, 2015 12:08:35 GMT
Gosh - every 30 mins and it's useless! Don't move to Havering. Having used the 347, 4 rtn jnys a day, and the 375, every 90 mins, in Havering this week it's completely clear to me that both of those routes are valued. The 347 wasn't exactly heaving with people but it did get a number of old people to and from the shops and a community centre to see friends. There were also two people, other than me, that did it end to end. The 375 was also busy with a wide mix of people using it to (for me) quite unexpected places but even at 90 min headways there's still a value for people. On the return journey there were people going home from work and others heading into Romford. We are very spoilt in London given the generous service levels in most places. However low frequency services are NOT useless for those who value them and use them. As soon as you start dismissing low frequency services as "useless" you open the door for them to be withdrawn and for people to lose access to their local areas and beyond and to prevent others from reaching those places. It's very true that the 'ultra low frequency' services are often first on the chopping block because they are perceived as 'useless.' But as you rightly say, they often provide an extremely useful link and are highly valued by those that use them. This week on the R5/R10s we've been curtailed to Knockholt Pound during the day due to roadworks on Main Road. This meant that a huge part of the route was not served during the day meaning massive inconvenience to our regular passengers. Thankfully, we drivers managed to convey news of the closure to most of our regulars so to the best of my knowledge no one ended up stranded but the inconvenience was still there. It's at times like that one truly understands the value these sorts of routes have I very much agree that there are many low frequency routes that are anything but useless but I think the original point was that the 485 is useless at providing a link between Putney and Mortlake because it is infrequent and unreliable. |
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Post by riverside on Oct 17, 2015 12:21:24 GMT
I have not got the reliability statistics to hand for the 485 but I should think they are not too bad. Whenever I have observed or used the route it seems to be running to time. Obviously this is a limited impression. The schedule has a generous 15 minutes recovery time (for a route that takes 30 minutes end to end), at both Hammersmith and Wandsworth. Apart from when the Hammersmith gyratory system becomes choked the route should perform reasonably well.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 17, 2015 12:31:13 GMT
I have not got the reliability statistics to hand for the 485 but I should think they are not too bad. Whenever I have observed or used the route it seems to be running to time. Obviously this is a limited impression. The schedule has a generous 15 minutes recovery time (for a route that takes 30 minutes end to end), at both Hammersmith and Wandsworth. Apart from when the Hammersmith gyratory system becomes choked the route should perform reasonably well. The TfL stats look reasonable to me. The mileage run is very high suggesting few curtailments and timekeeping is reasonably close to target but, of course, TfL don't set very challenging targets for "on time" running for low frequency routes. There are a couple of horrible dips in the mileage performance which I assume must relate to problems with Hammersmith Bridge or the Putney Bridge closure which cause(d) horrible traffic delays throughout that part of London. Just to pick up a point in another post then yes the original discussion was with reference to the 485 but then went on to suggest a 30 minute service was "useless". Clearly 30 minute (or lower) headways are not wonderful set against buses every 5 minutes but don't detract from the value of a service to those who use it. |
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Post by snowman on Jan 12, 2016 22:08:32 GMT
According to Surrey Comet online, the Tolworth Tower redevelopment was passed tonight and developers are giving £425,000 to extend the 281. It currently uses a stand adjacent to the redevelopment site. Which will presumably be vacated.
There was a separate proposal to extend 281 to a development near Tolworth station but that not part of the CNM Tower redevelopment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 22:35:20 GMT
According to Surrey Comet online, the Tolworth Tower redevelopment was passed tonight and developers are giving £425,000 to extend the 281. It currently uses a stand adjacent to the redevelopment site. Which will presumably be vacated. There was a separate proposal to extend 281 to a development near Tolworth station but that not part of the CNM Tower redevelopment. Where to ? That's a reasonable amount of money. Return to Chessington Industrial Estate Davies Road  |
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