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Post by snoggle on Jun 25, 2015 18:56:00 GMT
Another new consultation - this time for one of the very few remaining Mobility Bus routes. This time it's actually being expanded to run on more days and to have a revised route in Surbiton. Quite a surprise given past policy. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-965
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 19:34:52 GMT
I personally think the 965 should run Mon-Sat. It gives the residents of Riverhill and surrounding areas a much useful bus service. I think the route would do well as every time I see it is quite well used. Also gives residents a bus service as they are very distant from the network over there. Maybe a slight increase in service from 10:00AM and 11:00AM service as well as 13:00PM and 14:00PM service.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 22:57:04 GMT
Is an extension to Worcester Park possible ? If so I would consider a mon-sat service 5 return trips ?
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Post by snowman on Jun 27, 2015 6:38:34 GMT
Is an extension to Worcester Park possible ? If so I would consider a mon-sat service 5 return trips ? The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 8:48:18 GMT
Is an extension to Worcester Park possible ? If so I would consider a mon-sat service 5 return trips ? The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. I find it bizarre that a main road into Kingston is left in the hands of a poor frequency non TfL route.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 27, 2015 11:05:57 GMT
Is an extension to Worcester Park possible ? If so I would consider a mon-sat service 5 return trips ? The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. I agree that a one return journey three times a week is no replacement for an hourly service 6 days a week. I also agree that TfL seem not to know what to do in this "border" area between Kingston, Tolworty, Riverhill and then Malden Manor. I'm surprised that Portsmouth Road hasn't got a regular TfL service - you could surely move the 406 or 418 to run that way and past Surbiton Station to rejoin the current route? It's not as if Ewell Road is devoid of a service. Happy to be corrected if I've missed something obvious as I'm not a local. I also think the 965 could be turned into a better service like the 385 or W10. Not hugely frequent but 6 days a week at shopping times. You could also contemplate, subject to a bus gate being provided, a link across to Malden Manor to put a service along Old Malden Lane / Church Road to Malden Manor Station. If my "design a bus route" crayons were to be let loose then a route from Raynes Park / New Malden via the Motspur Park, Malden Manor, Old Malden Lane, Tolworth, Surbiton / Surbiton Hospital and down to Hook. That would just be a local route possibly just running hourly with a midibus, possibly a narrow width one, type vehicle. The other issue is that there is quite a group of housing, albeit it just inside Surrey, south of Worcester Park Road down to Grafton Road. There are issues with the road layout on Kingston Road because you can't turn right from this area to head north to Tolworth and Kingston. I wonder if a revamped 965 could also do a loop via Kingston Road, Grafton Road, Cromwell Road, Riverhill (turn), Worcester Park Road back to Kingston. You'd probably need 2 buses to run this an off peak hourly basis but it would be a nice step in service for that area and a slightly more satisfactory replacement for the Lovelace Gardens area. If you really wanted to serve Lovelace Gardens properly then loop the K1 round the area. One small issue about the Council Tax precept for TfL - it raises only £6m a year so barely pays the Director's bonuses. The majority funding is fares, charges and government revenue support. Therefore a big slice comes from people across the UK via their tax payments to government. This makes arguments about "London vs Surrey" dubious at best and specious at worst. The argument should be about sensibly meeting transport needs and I suspect (can't prove) that a better local service in this area south of Tolworth would do reasonably well once it bedded down. Comments welcome - especially from those who live locally.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2015 11:12:51 GMT
The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. I find it bizarre that a main road into Kingston is left in the hands of a poor frequency non TfL route. The 85 & 371 seem the best candidates for one of them to be extended to Esher via Portsmouth Road.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 13:45:20 GMT
Route 965 was already re-routed in December 2013 along with a timetable change. For it to be re-routed again and given an extra day of service, TFL are probably best off just implementing the 965 Monday-Saturday as a normal route with more than one return journey. There isn't any point any more of calling it a mobolity bus route for if a route needs to be re-routed twice, had a timetable change and given an extra day of service, the easiest option would be either to keep the service as it is, without a replacement of the 514, or re-route the service and keep it running 6 days a week during shopping hours only. As for portsmouth road, if there ever were to be a consideration of putting a route down there, route 85 would probably be the best option. The route isn't very long, has no major reliability issues and just seems like a much more sustainable route.
Maybe the residents around that area could be asked which route they would much prefer the 965 to go down, where it would terminate and whichever is the most chosen or seems like the best/suitable route, introduce a revised 965 and possibly a new route too.
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 27, 2015 14:10:17 GMT
Is an extension to Worcester Park possible ? If so I would consider a mon-sat service 5 return trips ? The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. If we're thinking of an extension to Esher(?) it would have to be SD, there's a low bridge which takes the line up to Hampton Court.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 17:01:18 GMT
The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. If we're thinking of an extension to Esher(?) it would have to be SD, there's a low bridge which takes the line up to Hampton Court. Yes indeed. I would prefer a "218" just for historical reasons with Citaros or something. Totally agree with a revamped Mon-Sat 965. Its clearly getting good custom and links the Sainsburys at Surey Basin
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2015 23:03:59 GMT
The road into Rivermead is not a through loop so would have to come back down same road, but there are a couple of ways to Worcester Park which are lightly bused ( and they are in Surrey, not London) Cromwell Road, Grafton Road and The Avenue seem obvious, might be able to use Barrow Hill then Royal Avenue or Cleveland Avenue or Highdown to get to Worcester Park station Two parts of the route are in Surrey, Worcester Park Road and part of Lovelace Road and St Mary's Road (which are Long Ditton, not Surbiton). So this is a cross border route. Maybe an alternative would be to divide the K3, half the frequency on Surrey section beyond Balaclava Road (there is a roundabout which could be used for turning) and use the released buses for the 965 (and give it a normal route number eg 495). Portsmouth Road is a gap in TfL network, at one time an extension of 85 was proposed. 3 buses per week is feeble substitute for the hourly 514 withdrawal. As it stands not sure if TfL knows if they are supporting and probably subsidizing Surrey residents or not, or muddling providing a service to Londoners who contribute via Council tax. I think they have rushed this, and not thought it through. If we're thinking of an extension to Esher(?) it would have to be SD, there's a low bridge which takes the line up to Hampton Court. The railway bridge on Portsmouth Road is 14'9" - full height deckers are 14'5" to 14'6".
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 28, 2015 0:21:19 GMT
If we're thinking of an extension to Esher(?) it would have to be SD, there's a low bridge which takes the line up to Hampton Court. The railway bridge on Portsmouth Road is 14'9" - full height deckers are 14'5" to 14'6". My error. It's the main line bridge which is 13' 3"
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 28, 2015 0:37:08 GMT
The railway bridge on Portsmouth Road is 14'9" - full height deckers are 14'5" to 14'6". My error. It's the main line bridge which is 13' 3"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 22:48:24 GMT
I live locally (Huzzah) so Id like to put my opinion in.
The section the 965 is replacing the 514 by is extremly rarely used. Most folk walk up to the main road for 5 or 10 mins where they can catch a bus every 7 or 8 mins.
The 85 and 371 being extended are ludicrous. They both rely on double deck vehicles, and the 371 is useful being a short and reliable route.
The only feesable option would be to reroute the 465 to run a few metres down the road, then up and double run at Victoria Road roundabout to still give Surbiton Station a service. It might wreck the scheduling a bit, but thats a given when routing anything down Portsmouth Rd.
As for an extension to Worcester Park, just use the X26 or the train like any other standard human.
And making the route 6 days a week wouldnt be a bad idea, as long as it was turned at Tolworth. The residents of Riverhill I cant see as wanting a more frequent bus service. When I went there once, they were quite hostile, and one person spat at the bus.
And even if you did make it 6 days a week, its automatically pointless because you can re route the K1 or just use the K2.
Might have gone off track. Feel free to shoot anymore suggestions.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jun 29, 2015 0:32:34 GMT
How about a new route, K6 perhaps
New Malden, Fountain Roundabout, then via 265 to Tolworth, then via the proposed 965 routeing to Sury Basin. Running every 20 minutes Monday-Saturday, every 30 minutes Sunday using 10.2m single deckers. This would give the residents of the surrounding area a more frequent, regular, TfL service.
The 965 can stay as it is/sent to Kingston Hospital as a return route three days a week to Riverhill is the residents have any objection to a more frequent bus service.
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