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Post by marlon101 on Jun 27, 2015 19:48:24 GMT
Not sure why there is an outpouring of grief at a system designed to stop illegal speeding. I for one am 100% behind buses obeying speed limits. Connor et al - are you not? Erm no. I think speed limits in most places are excessive. And I see this scheme causing more short running, if a late running bus isn't able to make up lost time...those some of my initial feelings on the scheme. I don't see great benefits coming from this project, especially on a route like the 486. I'd much rather the effort and money from this project went into installing decent AC units on NBfLs and older buses (such as the 56 reg E's on the 486 funnily enough), Countdown screens are more bus stops... It's just another scheme making traveling by bus an even more unattractive proposition for the majority of the public. Que the inevitable backlash from our righteous, law-abiding forum members. Edit: Of course as a passenger and not a driver, I'm unaware when and IF a bus driver is speeding so final judgement will come when the scheme is implemented. Thanks for your clarification. I'm glad that, you might, I agree that buses breaking the law for the purposes of running to time is not a good thing nor something that should be tolerated or accepted. Some might think that you have a legitimate argument with regards to speed limits being excessive. I am not entirely of this view, but is more commendable than the idea that buses should break any rules in place for short-term needs of 'getting somewhere quicker than you're meant to ordinarily'. I agree with you entirely that the money is being poorly spent. I'd also spend if on (some) of the ideas you suggest, such as tidying up the large plumes of black smoke those 56 reg Es have taken to emitting under hard acceleration. I'm for keeping buses inside the law through more conventional methods - more bobbies on the beat for enforcement!
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2015 23:14:44 GMT
The main problem I have with this is it's already been admitted by TfL that incidents involving buses speeding are very rare so if that's the case, what's the need to fit it. Rather than fitting this technology to buses, why not fit as standard to cars who are far more accountable for speeding incidents.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 28, 2015 4:12:30 GMT
Waste of money, coming hot on the heels of 'intelligent' e paper blinds that only work at the front of the bus
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Post by joefrombow on Jun 28, 2015 11:51:10 GMT
Does the same apply for the N19 ? Should be fun dawdling along through Islington at 20mph at 03:00 on a Sunday morning ! It's a sad state of affairs when we done trust bus drivers to drive sensibly and have to restrict them when will the control end where does it stop ?
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 28, 2015 12:04:47 GMT
Does the same apply for the N19 ? Should be fun dawdling along through Islington at 20mph at 03:00 on a Sunday morning ! It's a sad state of affairs when we done trust bus drivers to drive sensibly and have to restrict them when will the control end where does it stop ? Slots in the road(think Scalextric) all buses, then the rest, but no doubt excluding Lycra louts, all vehicles controlled from super computer in TFL towers. AND I'm not laughing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 12:12:45 GMT
Does sound like a waste of money. It's an established fact that more accidents per year are caused by drivers going to slow compared with too fast. That's generally cars but very few accidents are caused by speeding buses. I also think that as with average speed limits it will frustrate drivers so rather than pay attention to what's happening and adjusting speeds accordingly the speedo will be there for show and it would be driven to the limit regardless of whether 20-30 would be safe.
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Post by marlon101 on Jun 28, 2015 16:05:08 GMT
Worth remembering that this is a trial
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Post by londonbuses67 on Jun 28, 2015 16:25:48 GMT
I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in a few boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. However, I think the 20mph speed restriction should be enforced on London's dangerous road and potentially expanding to all London Borough where necessary.
The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so.
I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc.
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 28, 2015 16:37:05 GMT
I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in most boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so. I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc. One wonders what the transport unions think of this project? As it's been said it does besmirch the reputation of bus drivers by implying that they are all 'speed freaks' with no concern for their passengers or the public on the streets.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 28, 2015 17:11:31 GMT
I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in most boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so. I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc. Pedantic hat on so apologies - only three London boroughs have a blanket 20mph limit in place (Camden, Islington & Southwark).
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Post by snoggle on Jun 28, 2015 17:16:43 GMT
Worth remembering that this is a trialIt is indeed a trial but there is a political backdrop to all of this. The wider context is one of a public perception, albeit it stirred up by a minority, that buses go round killing and maiming pedestrians and cyclists. This initiative of relying more on technology than trained staff probably gives the critics a "warm feeling" but I fear it will be short lived. The not yet formally published TfL press release says this initiative is part of TfL's Pedestrian Safety Action Plan which strikes me as existing so TfL can say "it is doing something" rather than doing nothing. I'm not convinced that removing an element of control from professional drivers is the right way forward. I am also not convinced that potentially slowing down the bus service even more does anything to make it attractive to passengers. We're not talking here about endorsing speeding by drivers but more a recognition that making drivers ever slower and more cautious and more and more 20 mph borough wide limits will increase journey times. This in turn means more buses needed to run a given level of service which then means more budget to deliver an essentially worse service. I don't see a lot of sense in policies that are making rail ever faster and more convenient and buses ever slower and less economically efficient. It strikes me as a case of "TfL shooting itself in the foot" with the bus network and the way it relates to other modes - cycle works cause huge congestion and worsen the service, even when complete the cycle lanes may slow the bus service down permanently and we have the possibility of this technology also slowing down the bus service. At this rate the promised extra funding for improvements and extra capacity will be eaten up by having to fund more buses to run a slower existing service. It might be nice to have a positive alignment of policies rather than one that causes conflicts.
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Post by londonbuses67 on Jun 28, 2015 18:03:06 GMT
I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in most boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so. I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc. Pedantic hat on so apologies - only three London boroughs have a blanket 20mph limit in place (Camden, Islington & Camberwell). I though most London Boroughs has a 20mph speed limit in place. Thanks for pointing out the mistake vjaska. I have edited the post above.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 28, 2015 19:33:18 GMT
Pedantic hat on so apologies - only three London boroughs have a blanket 20mph limit in place (Camden, Islington & Camberwell). I though most London Boroughs has a 20mph speed limit in place. Thanks for pointing out the mistake vjaska. I have edited the post above. No worries - I also meant to say Southwark instead of Camberwell lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 21:46:53 GMT
Very strange. I feel as though I've stepped into the twilight zone and you're first paragraph is what I said as well. Reminds me of evil dead 1 and 2.. Same story, slight variation. I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in a few boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. However, I think the 20mph speed restriction should be enforced on London's dangerous road and potentially expanding to all London Borough where necessary. The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so. I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 28, 2015 22:05:34 GMT
Very strange. I feel as though I've stepped into the twilight zone and you're first paragraph is what I said as well. Reminds me of evil dead 1 and 2.. Same story, slight variation. I think this trail in introducing speed intelligence technology on London Buses is a ludicrous idea because it's an established fact that RTC's happen all the time due to drivers driving too slow rather than driving too fast (usually cars). Elaborating on my point, there isn't much accidents with bus drivers going too fast as there's already a speed restriction in place in a few boroughs of 20mph to prevent accidents from happening and even if it does happen it's not very common as bus drivers are trained properly to drive Londoners around. However, I think the 20mph speed restriction should be enforced on London's dangerous road and potentially expanding to all London Borough where necessary. The good thing about this project of TFL's is that this is a trail. I genuinely hope that this project of TFL doesn't go ahead as we already have speed restrictions on most of London's road and by having this speed intelligence technology it would make our roads potentially even slower; it also feels like TFL are insulting bus drivers that they're not capable of driving on London's road when they're more than enough capable of doing so. I feel that the money used for this projection should be spent on addressing the issue with cycling in London as it isn't safe enough. We should invest in technology to make HGVs more safer on London's roads and introduce more cycle segregation. Yes, I acknowledge that the problem with cycling in London isn't already the drivers fault as you could have cyclist putting themselves at risk by putting themselves in blind spots etc. Don't give them any more mad ideas... I'm sure they will bring in a Twilight Zone Congestion Charge to fund those wretched cycle lanes they are building
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