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Post by routew15 on Jul 16, 2015 12:46:46 GMT
A consultation has been launched today on the Heritage Route 15 which runs between Tower Hill and Trafalgar Square. the consultation is on a reduction in service from every 15 to every 20 mins. This has already been mentioned by Forum Members (will attach links accordingly). Consultation close on Friday 28 August 2015 Consultation Page for the Heritage 15
 The 15 group including the 15H service (source: Wikipedia) |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 16, 2015 14:52:58 GMT
Slightly surprised they're even bothering with this. Other frequency reductions have gone through with zero consultation - the 234's daytime frequency was reduced, the 114's evening service / 92's late evening service reduced plus umpteen routes in Central London have seen peak reductions with nary a squeak from TfL. I don't see why the fact it is run with RMs makes the slightest difference - it is still a scheduled TfL service like any other.
There's also a new consultation on the 697 and 698 asking the public for views on "confirming" what has been the informal practice of these routes starting from a school rather than Ickenham Station. Is anyone going to be bothered by that? Seems a needless waste of time and money to even ask.
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Post by routew15 on Jul 16, 2015 17:19:59 GMT
There's also a new consultation on the 697 and 698 asking the public for views on "confirming" what has been the informal practice of these routes starting from a school rather than Ickenham Station. Is anyone going to be bothered by that? Seems a needless waste of time and money to even ask. I saw that 697 698 consultation and had to read the "What we are proposing" section 3 times to understanding what they wanted to do. I look forward to the consultation report, or lack off it, from the overwhelming response TfL will receive.  Bus consultation consistency is erratic. Still perplexed by the fact 'micro-consultation' like the 697&698 exist but consultations like the W11&W15 never existed.  |
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Post by sid on Jul 21, 2015 12:05:35 GMT
A consultation has been launched today on the Heritage Route 15 which runs between Tower Hill and Trafalgar Square. the consultation is on a reduction in service from every 15 to every 20 mins. This has already been mentioned by Forum Members (will attach links accordingly). Consultation close on Friday 28 August 2015 Consultation Page for the Heritage 15
The 15 group including the 15H service (source: Wikipedia)Seems a rather pointless consultation, can't they just add an extra bus? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 16:45:36 GMT
A consultation has been launched today on the Heritage Route 15 which runs between Tower Hill and Trafalgar Square. the consultation is on a reduction in service from every 15 to every 20 mins. This has already been mentioned by Forum Members (will attach links accordingly). Consultation close on Friday 28 August 2015 Consultation Page for the Heritage 15
The 15 group including the 15H service (source: Wikipedia)Seems a rather pointless consultation, can't they just add an extra bus? Reported elsewhere that it would cost a lot to add a extra bus to the allocation. Although the 15H has a generous PVR the buses take a lot of TLC and can have several off the road at a time. I also understand it will still be X15 at weekends. |
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Post by sid on Jul 21, 2015 16:51:51 GMT
Seems a rather pointless consultation, can't they just add an extra bus? Reported elsewhere that it would cost a lot to add a extra bus to the allocation. Although the 15H has a generous PVR the buses take a lot of TLC and can have several off the road at a time. I also understand it will still be X15 at weekends. Well I can't imagine too many people being in favour of the reduction. Why not just advertise it as running every 15/20mins which should cover all eventualities? Wasn't there some plan to run other guest vintage buses on the route or was that just a myth? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 19:25:04 GMT
Reported elsewhere that it would cost a lot to add a extra bus to the allocation. Although the 15H has a generous PVR the buses take a lot of TLC and can have several off the road at a time. I also understand it will still be X15 at weekends. Well I can't imagine too many people being in favour of the reduction. Why not just advertise it as running every 15/20mins which should cover all eventualities? Wasn't there some plan to run other guest vintage buses on the route or was that just a myth? The 15H is mainly aimed as a tourist route - most will turn up and just wait. I don't think many "Regular" passengers will be too bothered. I don't think anyone would let a normal 15 go if it arrives before a RM. |
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Post by routew15 on Oct 29, 2015 19:50:09 GMT
The results from the consultation have be updated. A decision has been taken to proceed with the propsals to reduce the frequency of the 15H. The change to the frequency will take place from the 14 November 2015.The frequency reduction has been meet with a significant amount of opposition, yet TfL have ignored this. Consultation Report / Response to issues raised / Consultation Page |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2015 20:36:42 GMT
The results from the consultation have be updated. A decision has been taken to proceed with the propsals to reduce the frequency of the 15H. The change to the frequency will take place from the 14 November 2015.The frequency reduction has been meet with a significant amount of opposition, yet TfL have ignored this. Consultation Report / Response to issues raised / Consultation PageI suspect this consultation was inundated with people obsessed by Routemasters demanding that they remain in service effectively forever. They also seem to have demanded that more Routemasters run. That's all fine and dandy if the consultees could point TfL to the "magic money tree" to pay for their demands. The performance of both Heritage routes was always very poor in terms of time keeping. When I used to see the "emergency Ward 10" list of badly performing routes both the 9H and 15H often featured. That may not be the fault of the Routemaster vehicle but with such a small fleet and PVR it doesn't take much to happen to the traffic to render the route a mess. If I had been bidding to run the 15H I'd be very concerned, given past performance, at trying to run a 15 service wth a PVR of 5 when the stats show that it's been pretty much impossible. Therefore TfL did the sensible thing, given a desire not to increase the PVR and costs, to reduce the frequency to stop operators pricing in a risk premium in their bids to cover the risk of late running deductions. The one TfL response I do quibble with is the comment about adequate capacity on the existing 15. Not sure that's really true given the vast crowds you get at Tower Hill heading west. Buses leave full to bursting a lot of the time due to the volume of tourists. The 15H certainly helps as a "crowd buster" but there will be one less per hour. It may be a bit more manageable going east but the section between Charing Cross and Tower Hill is busy. Anyway I'm slightly surprised the 15H has got another contract term - good fortune for the retender to occur within the term of the current Mayor who wouldn't want final RM withdrawal to blight his legacy. It remains to be seen what the next Mayor's priorities will be but the 15H contract will expire after the next General and Mayoral elections in 2020. |
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Post by John tuthill on Oct 29, 2015 21:17:44 GMT
The results from the consultation have be updated. A decision has been taken to proceed with the propsals to reduce the frequency of the 15H. The change to the frequency will take place from the 14 November 2015.The frequency reduction has been meet with a significant amount of opposition, yet TfL have ignored this. Consultation Report / Response to issues raised / Consultation PageI suspect this consultation was inundated with people obsessed by Routemasters demanding that they remain in service effectively forever. They also seem to have demanded that more Routemasters run. That's all fine and dandy if the consultees could point TfL to the "magic money tree" to pay for their demands.
Snoggle, I appreciate your point. I would have like to have asked the Mayor: "Your 'ego' bus is not being used as you intended it to, and now they are being built with two doors, where there are models already on the market. If there is money for this lot, surely a small stipend could be found for a piece of iconic London history?" |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2015 21:30:10 GMT
I suspect this consultation was inundated with people obsessed by Routemasters demanding that they remain in service effectively forever. They also seem to have demanded that more Routemasters run. That's all fine and dandy if the consultees could point TfL to the "magic money tree" to pay for their demands.
Snoggle, I appreciate your point. I would have like to have asked the Mayor: "Your 'ego' bus is not being used as you intended it to, and now they are being built with two doors, where there are models already on the market. If there is money for this lot, surely a small stipend could be found for a piece of iconic London history?" Sure but there are two different issues here. The NB4L is a manifesto commitment so it'll happen regardless of cost (almost). The counterbalance to the spend on the NB4L has been the reduction in the bus budget (to run services). It's only because there has been downward pressure on costs and competition for tenders that TfL have been able to achieve big cuts to the budget while not pursuing any meaningful expansion. In this context the continuation of the Heritage 15 is a minor miracle given the very high costs per mile that apply (£25.40 for the new contract!). In comparison the cost for the 11 using NB4Ls and customer assistants is £10.37 per mile (for the new contract). The cost difference is enormous and a small stipend (£1.22m pa) has been found to keep the 15H going. That's £6m over 5 years. I understand why people are keen on keeping the RMs going. I'm not particularly enthusiastic any more - I can't get worked up over keeping RMs in service. I'd rather the money was spent on other routes that really need improvement. |
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Post by routew15 on Oct 29, 2015 21:33:29 GMT
I suspect this consultation was inundated with people obsessed by Routemasters demanding that they remain in service effectively forever. They also seem to have demanded that more Routemasters run. That's all fine and dandy if the consultees could point TfL to the "magic money tree" to pay for their demands. The performance of both Heritage routes was always very poor in terms of time keeping. When I used to see the "emergency Ward 10" list of badly performing routes both the 9H and 15H often featured. That may not be the fault of the Routemaster vehicle but with such a small fleet and PVR it doesn't take much to happen to the traffic to render the route a mess. If I had been bidding to run the 15H I'd be very concerned, given past performance, at trying to run a 15 service wth a PVR of 5 when the stats show that it's been pretty much impossible. Therefore TfL did the sensible thing, given a desire not to increase the PVR and costs, to reduce the frequency to stop operators pricing in a risk premium in their bids to cover the risk of late running deductions. The one TfL response I do quibble with is the comment about adequate capacity on the existing 15. Not sure that's really true given the vast crowds you get at Tower Hill heading west. Buses leave full to bursting a lot of the time due to the volume of tourists. The 15H certainly helps as a "crowd buster" but there will be one less per hour. It may be a bit more manageable going east but the section between Charing Cross and Tower Hill is busy. Anyway I'm slightly surprised the 15H has got another contract term - good fortune for the retender to occur within the term of the current Mayor who wouldn't want final RM withdrawal to blight his legacy. It remains to be seen what the next Mayor's priorities will be but the 15H contract will expire after the next General and Mayoral elections in 2020. I do wonder if opposition reached levels of 65-75% if TfL would of modified its plans? Anyway, to be honest these changes are not particularly going to affect as many people as thought. One thing I find funny when I'm out in the city is tourist don't actually care that much whether it's a Enviro400, New Routemaster or Gemini 4000 as long as it's red double decker and going to " Axferd Street"  . So I'm not expecting to many extremely disappointed tourist. When I wait for a 15 I certainly don't care which bus comes as long as I can get to Tower Hill/ Gateway to get a train. The 15H can't last forever... (I do hope to be proven wrong  ) |
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Post by sid on Oct 29, 2015 22:06:45 GMT
I think it can keep going for the foreseeable and the extra capacity to and from the Tower is always useful, I hardly think keeping half a dozen routemasters going is likely to break the bank
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2015 1:45:22 GMT
I suspect this consultation was inundated with people obsessed by Routemasters demanding that they remain in service effectively forever. They also seem to have demanded that more Routemasters run. That's all fine and dandy if the consultees could point TfL to the "magic money tree" to pay for their demands. The performance of both Heritage routes was always very poor in terms of time keeping. When I used to see the "emergency Ward 10" list of badly performing routes both the 9H and 15H often featured. That may not be the fault of the Routemaster vehicle but with such a small fleet and PVR it doesn't take much to happen to the traffic to render the route a mess. If I had been bidding to run the 15H I'd be very concerned, given past performance, at trying to run a 15 service wth a PVR of 5 when the stats show that it's been pretty much impossible. Therefore TfL did the sensible thing, given a desire not to increase the PVR and costs, to reduce the frequency to stop operators pricing in a risk premium in their bids to cover the risk of late running deductions. The one TfL response I do quibble with is the comment about adequate capacity on the existing 15. Not sure that's really true given the vast crowds you get at Tower Hill heading west. Buses leave full to bursting a lot of the time due to the volume of tourists. The 15H certainly helps as a "crowd buster" but there will be one less per hour. It may be a bit more manageable going east but the section between Charing Cross and Tower Hill is busy. Anyway I'm slightly surprised the 15H has got another contract term - good fortune for the retender to occur within the term of the current Mayor who wouldn't want final RM withdrawal to blight his legacy. It remains to be seen what the next Mayor's priorities will be but the 15H contract will expire after the next General and Mayoral elections in 2020. I do wonder if opposition reached levels of 65-75% if TfL would of modified its plans? Anyway, to be honest these changes are not particularly going to affect as many people as thought. One thing I find funny when I'm out in the city is tourist don't actually care that much whether it's a Enviro400, New Routemaster or Gemini 4000 as long as it's red double decker and going to " Axferd Street" . So I'm not expecting to many extremely disappointed tourist. When I wait for a 15 I certainly don't care which bus comes as long as I can get to Tower Hill/ Gateway to get a train. The 15H can't last forever... (I do hope to be proven wrong ) You'll be surprised - the Romford Running Day was a good example where ordinary people (in other words, non bus enthusiasts) were purposely letting the usual buses go to ride a Routemaster, Regent, Metrobus or Titan. The Routemasters & Regents tend to get lots of looks even in the City and regardless of livery too which slaps down the usual argument that tourists come to London because the buses are red - it's simply false! |
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Post by routew15 on Oct 30, 2015 8:28:45 GMT
You'll be surprised - the Romford Running Day was a good example where ordinary people (in other words, non bus enthusiasts) were purposely letting the usual buses go to ride a Routemaster, Regent, Metrobus or Titan. Don't get me wrong I'm not denying the significance of the Routemaster (and other heritage buses) amongst the public, my problem lies more with the route 15H itself. The 15H is special however I don't think it's significant, maybe that's due to; lack of publicity; the routing of the route; the poor service; or it being the only route with the Routemaster. I'm probably being quite naive, having travelled on the route myself several times . Fair enough, I see your point here. |
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. So I'm not expecting to many extremely disappointed tourist. 
)