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Post by 700101 on Sept 15, 2017 12:17:34 GMT
From 18/09/17 Thameslink's London Bridge - Brighton services will be fully 700's making the whole Thameslink route only 700 service
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Post by towerman on Sept 15, 2017 15:41:07 GMT
Is the cab signalling on the King's Cross/St Pancras-Blackfriars section now in operation?
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Post by TA1 on Sept 15, 2017 16:07:27 GMT
No, but ERTMS level 2 is still being tested within the core under possesion hours.
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Post by 700101 on Sept 29, 2017 22:19:23 GMT
From the December timetable change a handful of Horsham services will transfer to Thameslink operation, also the peak East Grinstread and Littlehampton services to/from London Bridge will also transfer over to TL operation.
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Post by towerman on Oct 6, 2017 10:34:42 GMT
Seems to me the Thameslink service is going to be too big & unwieldy.
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Post by routew15 on Oct 23, 2017 17:24:00 GMT
I have used the thameslink service on and (mainly) off over the past two years and over the past 4 weeks the service has really improved.
There were moments were the platform at Elephant & Castle were sparse and would have only a few regular passengers who struggled to use the below par AM peak Sevenoaks service. At present the amount of people I see use it appears to have grown, as the service is far more reliable with only the odd the delay here and there.
The only negatives I have one service delivery improvements: 1- stations are quite small and dingy 2- small delays have humongous effect of the service
I won't dwell to much on the negatives but I will say Well Done Thameslink on the improvement to service and there is definitely room for "London Overground surge/boost in popularity" potential across the network
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Post by snoggle on Oct 23, 2017 18:52:12 GMT
I have used the thameslink service on and (mainly) off over the past two years and over the past 4 weeks the service has really improved. There were moments were the platform at Elephant & Castle were sparse and would have only a few regular passengers who struggled to use the below par AM peak Sevenoaks service. At present the amount of people I see use it appears to have grown, as the service is far more reliable with only the odd the delay here and there. The only negatives I have one service delivery improvements: 1- stations are quite small and dingy 2- small delays have humongous effect of the service I won't dwell to much on the negatives but I will say Well Done Thameslink on the improvement to service and there is definitely room for " London Overground surge/boost in popularity" potential across the network Interesting. I assume a generic fleet, after years of transition, may be bringing some more consistency to the service. Of course you have the crucial changes over the next 8 months (Dec TT, Jan revised TT, May new TT) and then the final step to 20 tph in Dec 2018. The Great Northern service links in at St Pancras next May I believe.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 23, 2017 19:14:22 GMT
I have used the thameslink service on and (mainly) off over the past two years and over the past 4 weeks the service has really improved. There were moments were the platform at Elephant & Castle were sparse and would have only a few regular passengers who struggled to use the below par AM peak Sevenoaks service. At present the amount of people I see use it appears to have grown, as the service is far more reliable with only the odd the delay here and there. The only negatives I have one service delivery improvements: 1- stations are quite small and dingy 2- small delays have humongous effect of the service I won't dwell to much on the negatives but I will say Well Done Thameslink on the improvement to service and there is definitely room for " London Overground surge/boost in popularity" potential across the network Interesting. I assume a generic fleet, after years of transition, may be bringing some more consistency to the service. Of course you have the crucial changes over the next 8 months (Dec TT, Jan revised TT, May new TT) and then the final step to 20 tph in Dec 2018. The Great Northern service links in at St Pancras next May I believe. Interestingly, I was talking to my friend about our commutes the other day and she said the Thameslink was awful to use and it seemed to be getting worse. I wonder if certain services are seeing an improvement while others seem to be neglected a bit more
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Post by Hassaan on Oct 23, 2017 20:37:22 GMT
Interesting. I assume a generic fleet, after years of transition, may be bringing some more consistency to the service. Of course you have the crucial changes over the next 8 months (Dec TT, Jan revised TT, May new TT) and then the final step to 20 tph in Dec 2018. The Great Northern service links in at St Pancras next May I believe. Interestingly, I was talking to my friend about our commutes the other day and she said the Thameslink was awful to use and it seemed to be getting worse. I wonder if certain services are seeing an improvement while others seem to be neglected a bit more Think they might not be a fan of the Class 700 layout, that I keep seeing people moan about on forums? The 377s and 387s ended up getting people used to full-size tables, which almost all the 319s never had (only 319214-220 did) and is also the case in most other outer suburban stock. They're lucky they're getting seat-back tables fitted in the FLU 12-cars, and I find the legroom is the same as Classes 350/2, 360 and 450. Personally I don't see any issues with the 700s or the 99% identical Class 707s being introduced on SWR and can't wait until more are in service on the Hounslow services, as I'm a huge fan of the seats and hate the soggy Class 458 ones. But then again any National Rail train is better than 73ts that I could end up using from Hounslow Central (although at least I can tolerate the occasional 20+ minute journey on them, unlike the Bakerloo 72ts which are bad even for the 5 minutes from Paddington to Baker Street).
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Post by routew15 on Oct 23, 2017 22:34:36 GMT
I have used the thameslink service on and (mainly) off over the past two years and over the past 4 weeks the service has really improved. There were moments were the platform at Elephant & Castle were sparse and would have only a few regular passengers who struggled to use the below par AM peak Sevenoaks service. At present the amount of people I see use it appears to have grown, as the service is far more reliable with only the odd the delay here and there. The only negatives I have one service delivery improvements: 1- stations are quite small and dingy 2- small delays have humongous effect of the service I won't dwell to much on the negatives but I will say Well Done Thameslink on the improvement to service and there is definitely room for " London Overground surge/boost in popularity" potential across the network Interesting. I assume a generic fleet, after years of transition, may be bringing some more consistency to the service. Of course you have the crucial changes over the next 8 months (Dec TT, Jan revised TT, May new TT) and then the final step to 20 tph in Dec 2018. The Great Northern service links in at St Pancras next May I believe. Im not always good with keeping up-to-date so correct if my thinking is out of date that target was 24tph...
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Post by routew15 on Oct 23, 2017 22:52:50 GMT
Interestingly, I was talking to my friend about our commutes the other day and she said the Thameslink was awful to use and it seemed to be getting worse. I wonder if certain services are seeing an improvement while others seem to be neglected a bit more Think they might not be a fan of the Class 700 layout, that I keep seeing people moan about on forums? The 377s and 387s ended up getting people used to full-size tables, which almost all the 319s never had (only 319214-220 did) and is also the case in most other outer suburban stock. They're lucky they're getting seat-back tables fitted in the FLU 12-cars, and I find the legroom is the same as Classes 350/2, 360 and 450. Personally I don't see any issues with the 700s or the 99% identical Class 707s being introduced on SWR and can't wait until more are in service on the Hounslow services, as I'm a huge fan of the seats and hate the soggy Class 458 ones. But then again any National Rail train is better than 73ts that I could end up using from Hounslow Central (although at least I can tolerate the occasional 20+ minute journey on them, unlike the Bakerloo 72ts which are bad even for the 5 minutes from Paddington to Baker Street). I personally have no major gripes with the 700s. i have done both short and long journeys on them now and besides the seats being a bit closer than id prefer they are relatively good vehicles. Only last week i rode the new 345s and found myself underwhelmed by the bog-standard nature of the fleet to me. A feature on the 700s that i have grown to appreciate more and more is the passengers information displays (with travel updates, on-board carriage data, toilet availability, next stop information). The 345 felt to me as though it was as a more purple London Overground train (however i came to a realisation that i should not be surprised, as it is the only fleet configuration TfL are acquainted with and that is Metro not Mainline like the 700s).
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Post by snoggle on Oct 23, 2017 23:19:11 GMT
Interesting. I assume a generic fleet, after years of transition, may be bringing some more consistency to the service. Of course you have the crucial changes over the next 8 months (Dec TT, Jan revised TT, May new TT) and then the final step to 20 tph in Dec 2018. The Great Northern service links in at St Pancras next May I believe. Im not always good with keeping up-to-date so correct if my thinking is out of date that target was 24tph... You are correct - 24 tph from 12/18. I think it is 20tph from May but I might be wrong about that.
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Post by snowman on Oct 24, 2017 6:00:20 GMT
Think they might not be a fan of the Class 700 layout, that I keep seeing people moan about on forums? The 377s and 387s ended up getting people used to full-size tables, which almost all the 319s never had (only 319214-220 did) and is also the case in most other outer suburban stock. They're lucky they're getting seat-back tables fitted in the FLU 12-cars, and I find the legroom is the same as Classes 350/2, 360 and 450. Personally I don't see any issues with the 700s or the 99% identical Class 707s being introduced on SWR and can't wait until more are in service on the Hounslow services, as I'm a huge fan of the seats and hate the soggy Class 458 ones. But then again any National Rail train is better than 73ts that I could end up using from Hounslow Central (although at least I can tolerate the occasional 20+ minute journey on them, unlike the Bakerloo 72ts which are bad even for the 5 minutes from Paddington to Baker Street). I personally have no major gripes with the 700s. i have done both short and long journeys on them now and besides the seats being a bit closer than id prefer they are relatively good vehicles. Only last week i rode the new 345s and found myself underwhelmed by the bog-standard nature of the fleet to me. A feature on the 700s that i have grown to appreciate more and more is the passengers information displays (with travel updates, on-board carriage data, toilet availability, next stop information). The 345 felt to me as though it was as a more purple London Overground train (however i came to a realisation that i should not be surprised, as it is the only fleet configuration TfL are acquainted with and that is Metro not Mainline like the 700s). The problem with the seating is the journey time, if you are crossing London (the clue is in the name of the service) then can be on them for 90 minutes, that is a similar journey time to many mainline journeys. But some bright spark has made the seating the bare minimum suitable for a 30-40 minute commuter journey. If you lived in Sussex and were taking your family for a day trip to Cambridge you would think this train is not the most comfortable layout. Designs like this are a compromise. As for seat comfort don't get me started, I grew up when trains bounced along on poor riding bogies, with basic metal springs, no air suspension, and seats had a good 15cm of spongy padding. Some of the current designs are plainly dreadful, the 700s are some of the worst because its seats were chosen by civil servants from a list of choices, probably picked the cheapest, not by trying them out and sitting on each for a few minutes. I think another Operator did a feedback session where they stuck 3 or 4 potential designs side by side on a station concourse and asked public to try them, and comment/score them, one got dreadful marks and was last. From memory the loser was the one the 700s got. Wish I could remember which Operator it was as they ordered something else even though it cost more.
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Post by routew15 on Oct 24, 2017 8:12:28 GMT
I personally have no major gripes with the 700s. i have done both short and long journeys on them now and besides the seats being a bit closer than id prefer they are relatively good vehicles. Only last week i rode the new 345s and found myself underwhelmed by the bog-standard nature of the fleet to me. A feature on the 700s that i have grown to appreciate more and more is the passengers information displays (with travel updates, on-board carriage data, toilet availability, next stop information). The 345 felt to me as though it was as a more purple London Overground train (however i came to a realisation that i should not be surprised, as it is the only fleet configuration TfL are acquainted with and that is Metro not Mainline like the 700s). The problem with the seating is the journey time, if you are crossing London (the clue is in the name of the service) then can be on them for 90 minutes, that is a similar journey time to many mainline journeys. But some bright spark has made the seating the bare minimum suitable for a 30-40 minute commuter journey. If you lived in Sussex and were taking your family for a day trip to Cambridge you would think this train is not the most comfortable layout. Designs like this are a compromise. As for seat comfort don't get me started, I grew up when trains bounced along on poor riding bogies, with basic metal springs, no air suspension, and seats had a good 15cm of spongy padding. Some of the current designs are plainly dreadful, the 700s are some of the worst because its seats were chosen by civil servants from a list of choices, probably picked the cheapest, not by trying them out and sitting on each for a few minutes. I think another Operator did a feedback session where they stuck 3 or 4 potential designs side by side on a station concourse and asked public to try them, and comment/score them, one got dreadful marks and was last. From memory the loser was the one the 700s got. Wish I could remember which Operator it was as they ordered something else even though it cost more. I think that more legroom for seats would improve the overall long distance ride quality, especially seeing as though this is thameslink’s primary patron I would say. For myself i have completed journeys between Denmark hill - Elstree and Farringdon - Brighton both were relatively comfortable. Looking at the existing layout, space could come from the generous vestibule. I believe the passenger seat test was conducted by Greater Anglia if my memory serves me correctly.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 24, 2017 12:53:09 GMT
As for seat comfort don't get me started, I grew up when trains bounced along on poor riding bogies, with basic metal springs, no air suspension, and seats had a good 15cm of spongy padding. Some of the current designs are plainly dreadful, the 700s are some of the worst because its seats were chosen by civil servants from a list of choices, probably picked the cheapest, not by trying them out and sitting on each for a few minutes. I think another Operator did a feedback session where they stuck 3 or 4 potential designs side by side on a station concourse and asked public to try them, and comment/score them, one got dreadful marks and was last. From memory the loser was the one the 700s got. Wish I could remember which Operator it was as they ordered something else even though it cost more. Not often I disagree with you but getting people to sit on seats for a few mins is no way to make a judgement. Seats need to be trialled in service for weeks or months. Converting a carriage in an existing unit to test out different designs and do market research and more objective tests would be better. Hard to do for tube trains but I'd argue easier for main line stock. I remember the mock up of the 09 stock outside Euston station. I went along and tried out the seats. I thought they were awful and told the people present including the Line GM who had previously called me a "cheeky monkey" in an E Mail. You can imagine the fun I had with that. "Hello, who are you?" "Hi, I'm the cheeky monkey" - and yes those words are real. Apparently all the feedback was ignored because Tim O'Toole, then LU MD, tried out the seats and thought they were fine. No one dare argue with him. Therefore we are lumbered with hard, narrow and unyielding seats for 40 years by virtie of Mr O'Toole's posterior. How ridiculous. Compared to 1967 stock they're dreadful. I've not experienced the horrors of a real class 700 but I did visit the mockup when it was at Excel years ago. Nothing has changed from what I can see from back then. I do struggle as to how something as important as seating is so often an absolute disaster on public transport vehicles. Even allowing for the enormous range of body sizes and individual preferences it must be possible to avoid putting in seats with too little legroom, misalignment with window pillars and plank like seat comfort. I know a lot of technology goes into the materials, weight, fire retardence and accident protection aspects of seats but comfort seems a long way down the list these days.
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