|
Post by 6HP502C on Nov 26, 2015 22:54:45 GMT
I very much agree, nobody complains because they think rightly or wrongly that nobody is interested. I suspect this will just go ahead regardless all for the sake of a 24 hour 35 rather than an N35!! From my random observations the daytime service seems ok as it is? Suffice to say feedback on the bus network is read, passed on and considered as appropriate by both TfL and to varying degrees, the bus operators. It is worth complaining if there is a problem with the service. I suppose this wouldn't be much of an issue if the City branch of the Northern Line was set to receive a Night Tube service - but it isn't even on the table yet.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 27, 2015 0:44:14 GMT
Old Street Station is a 900+ metre walk from the nearest bus stops towards Elephant & Castle (Shoreditch High Street Station or Liverpool Street). There isn't even a same stop interchange available between the N55 and the 35 towards Clapham Junction. Extra walks and/or additional interchange penalties aren't particularly attractive during the day, let alone at night. People who never use the route or night buses in general may well be inclined to say "tough". Unfortunately, I suspect the consultation won't receive many responses. Virtually nobody puts in official written complaints about crowding on night buses - people just accept the status quo. The route has been bursting at the seams for a few years, but I'll bet money that not a single person has put an official written complaint in through the TfL website - nobody had when I worked on the frequency increase scheme 18 or so months ago! So although those affected don't seem to have a voice, it should be known the service is used and appreciated between Old Street and Shoreditch! Things have genuinely been looking up for the increasingly busy night bus network, with the fantastic schemes that have been going in over the last few years. Even certain 24 houring related cuts (N52, N76 for example) haven't been so controversial, because there were reasonable alternative routes available (and the N76 was one of, if not the most horrendously unreliable night route in recent years!) The frequency increase south of Shoreditch is most welcome indeed. But I'd personally appeal to TfL to retain the service as far west as Old Street Station, because it is well used and there are no alternative routes in the area which cater for people wishing to get into South London. I very much agree, nobody complains because they think rightly or wrongly that nobody is interested. I suspect this will just go ahead regardless all for the sake of a 24 hour 35 rather than an N35!! From my random observations the daytime service seems ok as it is? The daytime 35 needs help between Clapham Junction & Clapham Common as during the peaks & evenings, both the 35 & 37 are full to bursting. Clapham Common to Brixton is ok sometimes but after Brixton, the route gets busy again but at least it has sufficient help all the way to Shoreditch.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Nov 27, 2015 12:21:43 GMT
I very much agree, nobody complains because they think rightly or wrongly that nobody is interested. I suspect this will just go ahead regardless all for the sake of a 24 hour 35 rather than an N35!! From my random observations the daytime service seems ok as it is? Suffice to say feedback on the bus network is read, passed on and considered as appropriate by both TfL and to varying degrees, the bus operators. It is worth complaining if there is a problem with the service. I suppose this wouldn't be much of an issue if the City branch of the Northern Line was set to receive a Night Tube service - but it isn't even on the table yet. Well I've had my twopenneth saying the N35 should remain at least to Old Street if not TCR. It's a shame the City Branch of the Northern isn't getting a night tube, apparently this is due to upgrade work at Bank?
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Mar 18, 2016 19:49:22 GMT
Route 35/N35 outcome 84% per cent of the responses supported these changes
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2016 20:21:56 GMT
Route 35/N35 outcome 84% per cent of the responses supported these changes Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign.
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Mar 18, 2016 20:36:30 GMT
Route 35/N35 outcome 84% per cent of the responses supported these changes Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign. Interesting indeed, I do not think that will go down very well. There response made really good sensible reading. Raised my eyebrows quite a few times due to the whole-hog nature of their comments.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2016 20:46:47 GMT
Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign. Interesting indeed, I do not think that will go down very well. There response made really good sensible reading. Raised my eyebrows quite a few times due to the whole-hog nature of their comments. Yes their comments were well thought out and set clearly in the context of the Night Tube but also the wider night time economy issues. Their points about peeed up people being a danger to themselves and others at Clapham N and Clapham Common are something I'd not thought about but they're probably right to be concerned. I think TfL have rushed this response out in a mad hurry and have simply relied on the overall strong support and not been bothered with the detail.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 18, 2016 23:34:45 GMT
Route 35/N35 outcome 84% per cent of the responses supported these changes Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign. Sadly, the 37 along with those who went beyond Shoreditch are probably the losers in that. Personally, I really do think the Clapham Junction to Brixton section should also have got a frequency increase as TfL have seriously underestimated how busy this section is both day & night.
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Mar 19, 2016 10:45:32 GMT
It always makes me chuckle when I see TfL's standard response to blatantly ignoring overcrowding issues: "...as a result, not everyone can get on the bus when they turn up." May be speaking for everyone who waits patiently to board a N35 when I say "why I oughta!!" The first time I rode the 35 fully it was 10pm Sunday on an autumn's night. Before Clapham Common could even be reached the bus was heaving with passengers and stayed that way until we crossed into the City. Apart from then I normally use it in the Bishopsgate area during the day and night to cross the river past Elephant & Castle. It's utterly dreadful the reality that from TCR the N35 carry skeletons but come Shoreditch the area transforms into a sardine factory for the N35. It's too painful to recall the countless times I have waited southbound past Liverpool Street and always having the fate of boarding be beyond my control. Surprised that there were only 4 responses to not severing the Old Street link; me being one of those respondents. In all honesty, TfL should not only have 1 through route from the Shoreditch area to E&C. Another night route needs to parallel the N35 on that exact stretch and then wherever southwards it goes from there; so be it. If any bus was the personification of changes in the night time economy in recent times, hands down it's the N35. Shoreditch has added to the UK economy quite sizably in fact; and as infrastructure would need to be provided for tech services, so is sufficient transport infrastructure for busy night life there. And it spreads you know...before the Stoke Newington gyratory are bars/pubs/clubs who all benefit from the extra footfall expanding from Shoreditch. Good news I hear the GDP worriers say; but when I overhear people from south London talk about getting home it always scares me. "We're gonna catch the N35, it's the only bus that gets us anywhere close to home." In my head I offer a hand of consolation to each and every one of them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 19:26:01 GMT
Route 35/N35 outcome 84% per cent of the responses supported these changes Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign. Definitely agree with what you've said. It was very honest and detailed what they said showing how it would effect them, and they seem to decided not to take in their view. Couldn't just like the comment! However it is unfortunately going ahead now. To keep the link between Old Street and South London, could we change the terminuss of routes 35 and 135, so route 35 terminates at Old Street and route 135 at Shoreditch. It would cost only a little bit more at night, and especially as routes 35 and 135 are operated with the same frequency and company, it shouldn't cost that much extra. Route 205 follows route 135 between Aldgate and Old Street Station anyway.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2016 19:38:55 GMT
Interesting they've not bothered to respond to the excoriating comments from the Clapham Transport Users Campaign. Definitely agree with what you've said. It was very honest and detailed what they said showing how it would effect them, and they seem to decided not to take in their view. Couldn't just like the comment! However it is unfortunately going ahead now. To keep the link between Old Street and South London, could we change the terminuss of routes 35 and 135, so route 35 terminates at Old Street and route 135 at Shoreditch. It would cost only a little bit more at night, and especially as routes 35 and 135 are operated with the same frequency and company, it shouldn't cost that much extra. Route 205 follows route 135 between Aldgate and Old Street Station anyway. You need to be careful not to muddle the daytime and night time issues. I wouldn't change the 135. It provides a new link through the City from Commercial Rd and reaches Moorfield Eye Hospital. From my limited use / sighting of the daytime 35 it's not that heavily used to / from Shoreditch but clearly has to get through the City and Shoreditch is a sensible place to terminate. The night time economy is another thing altogether. The N35 is clearly oversubscribed and my limited travels through Old St by night bus showed it was extremely busy! The N205 can also load ridiculously well but has reliability issues. I fail to see why TfL could not resource the N35 reaching / terminating at Old St as it would pick up the Hoxton crowd plus those at Shoreditch. I suspect there might be some merit in a Weekend N135 actually but it's clearly not on TfL's radar.
|
|
|
Post by T.R. on Mar 24, 2016 12:43:25 GMT
I see they've not mentioned my idea of diverting (N)43 via Bishopsgate either lol.
Now if this coincided with the Night Overground, it could soften the blow.
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Apr 6, 2016 17:13:16 GMT
I missed this update, being hidden away in this section! I fail to see why TfL could not resource the N35 reaching / terminating at Old St as it would pick up the Hoxton crowd plus those at Shoreditch. I suspect there might be some merit in a Weekend N135 actually but it's clearly not on TfL's radar. 24 houring routes is conductive to the running of a simple network. It is appears to have been applied rigidly in this case. Demand for the northern end of the route is far more significant at night than it is during the daytimes, where as you say, the loop is merely a convenient way to turn buses once they've served the City. Terminating and starting the night 35 at the Curtain Road stand would soften the impact for users of the route from Old Street and Hoxton - and very few people would be affected by having to get off at Curtain Road instead of Shoreditch Church. Old Street is to be left without a service to cater for those heading to South London. Despite the 243 and N55 being referenced in the consultation, there is no same stop or even same road interchange between these routes and the southbound 35. When people realise the route has been withdrawn, instead of staggering from Old Street to Shoreditch High Street, I expect quite a few of them will think "sod it" and Uber it home instead. The traffic problems in Shoreditch have caused reliability issues with night routes in the recent past - I have no doubt that removing the link from Old Street will result in increased demand for minicabs which clog up the roads waiting for their customers. Retaining the pick up stop at Shoreditch Church might mitigate this. Furthermore, the N35 should stand at Curtain Road for operational reasons. I can see from the schedules that 6-7 minutes is allowed from Liverpool Street to Shoreditch High Street. I'm not certain this is enough time for the buses to get around the loop and enjoy the 7 minutes recovery/stand time - perhaps someone who drives the night 47 might know. If the traffic on Curtain Road is as bad as it is on Old Street, drivers would stand more chance of a breather if the stand is moved to the point before the mayhem. The opportunity was missed at this contract renewal to boost the late evening frequency of the 35. Although it suffices for much of the evening due to rail and bus alternatives, every 15 minutes results in crowding on southbound buses from Shoreditch between 23:00 and 00:25, when the night service kicks in. I'm afraid I can't really support the retention of the 12 minute frequency south of Brixton. Abellio regularly turn buses at Clapham Common so there was nothing like a 12 minute service on most weekends. Between the 35, 37 and 345 there is enough capacity in the area, though the 37 really does warrant a 3rd bus throughout weekend nights. Although I agree with the general point of the CPTUG, their comments were more scathing than succinct. I'm not convinced that anybody sits in the N35 all the way to Tottenham Court Road unless they've fallen asleep or to escape inclement weather. The last tubes go as late as about midnight and after that, the N155 provdes a far superior service from the heart of Clapham into Central London. Unfortunately the results of the consultation speak for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Apr 7, 2016 19:09:17 GMT
I will miss the N35. Perhaps the western leg through to Tottenham Court Road is a legacy of year 2000 night bus network where virtually all night buses served TCR or Trafalgar Square. The Old Street to Shoreditch leg has become important as the Shoreditch/Hoxton night economy has grown over the years. The N35 has always been the fastest route to nowhere. It commenced as an hourly service with London Central Volvo Olympians in April 1997, running from Trafalgar Square to Clapham Junction via Kingsway, Holborn and Shoreditch. It even bore north from Holborn to serve Mount Pleasant Mail Centre, though less than a year later it was rerouted straight along the Clerkenwell Road. In April 2000, Trafalgar Square was dropped and the present terminus of Tottenham Court Road was introduced. In 2003, the frequency was increased to half hourly, which would remain until Travel London took over the route on the 2nd May 2009. I was out on the very first night and recall ringing Travel London because I'd been waiting on New Oxford Street for 45 minutes for a service that was supposed to be running every 20 minutes - 3 buses hadn't turned up. I asked if they were actually running any buses. The problem was the drivers were taking the wrong route and missed out New Oxford Street. I liked the 09 plate Enviros 9446-9466 when they first came out. They were unrestricted and driven with particular rigour on the N35. You don't really get them doing 45mph along Coldharbour Lane or Newington Causeway any more as in 2011, Abellio (who had replaced the erstwhile Travel London) took the perhaps pragmatic decision to restrict their top speed and rate of acceleration. One driver told me he took one up to 55mph on the Walworth Road before pulling the handbrake to scare two standing passengers who had been abusive to him. The crowding problems became apparent in the late 2000s. A combination of suppressed demand and the proliferation of Shoreditch/Hoxton as an ultra trendy nightspot has led to a fairly consistent upward trend of passenger numbers on weekends. The frequency was bumped up to 4 buses per hour in May 2011. I was temporarily a part of the route's history. I got a job with Abellio in March 2012 to support myself through university and would travel down from the East Midlands to Battersea on Fridays to drive night buses. I think my experiences of this over popular route have been well documented in the Abellio thread. Just one memory that sticks out - upon arrival at Clapham Junction once, with the windows fully steamed up and the bus reeking of takeaway and sweat, one passenger said "thanks man, I don't know how you do it." I did it for the love of it really In June 2012, the N35 moved to Walworth Garage with yet another frequency increase up to 5 bph. It wasn't fun to drive anymore - no cherry picking of buses and dreaded live changeovers at Camberwell. I did it once and the bus I was relieving turned up 50 minutes late - just what you want at 2 in the morning. I stuck to the N3 after that. Timekeeping was an aspiration, but the buses did run the full route. TfL introduced incentivisation in April 2014. This meant that buses had to run on time throughout, not just southbound at TCR. It was around about this time that the Clapham Common to Clapham Junction service fell to pieces on weekends and buses started running empty from London Bridge/Elephant to Brixton to make up time. The circuitous nature of the route (hence fastest bus to nowhere) allows for such shortcuts to be taken. I stopped using it regularly when this started happening. As frustrating as the route became to use, I found it fascinating and even studied the reliability as part of my dissertation. I happened to be on a bus with one such indiscriminate curtailment - www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2A53lpIA4oDuring the Olympics, the frequency was increased to 6 bph on all nights. On weeknights it was like the N343 - slithering along at 7mph so as not to gain time. The only time I've been on a London bus in which there was an accident with injuries was on the N35. There is a video online showing the moment of impact and the damage to the bus - www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x8-BaXHENYIncreased running time was implemented in June 2014, which I gather improved things slightly. Whilst weeknight usage has remained stagnant for the last umpteen years, weekend usage has continued to tend towards saturation point since the last permanent frequency increase 4 years ago. That said, drivers are reporting that the 47, given a 24 hour service to Shoreditch in September 2015, has cooled demand somewhat. Come the 30th April, it's goodbye N35 and welcome to the 24 hour 35. Hopefully the night 35 will be more reliable and pleasant to use! I'll be interested to see how further changes to QSI performance monitoring will impact on the running of night routes in the future. I don't think I'll be going near the N35 again, not with the battered, sluggish Enviros and grossly excessive running times, but I think the route deserves some recognition and a place in the history of night buses in London, if only for being the sole South London route to provide a service to an area which has seen vast development of its night time economy over the last 10 years. Historical information on the route changes taken from the route's service history and www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/night/n035.html
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 7, 2016 21:06:10 GMT
6HP502C - nice write up. That second video is like being a hyper charged Dart rather than an E400. The overcrowding video is unreal even though I have seen it before. The thing that's interesting is just how how full that N35 was by the time it got to Worship St - jammed to the windscreen. I don't envy the poor London Central drivers who will have to get used to the nightmare even with a better frequency. I suspect that may open the floodgates again *if* they are able to run the route OK and get rid of Abellio's worst misdemeanours.
|
|