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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 10, 2016 18:48:58 GMT
Whilst I know it's slightly loopy thorugh isle of dogs could the N550 be extended from Canning town to Barking then on to Dagenham to allow the N15 reduce in frequency as past Barking the high freq to Romford is not needed.
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 10, 2016 19:18:28 GMT
Whilst I know it's slightly loopy thorugh isle of dogs could the N550 be extended from Canning town to Barking then on to Dagenham to allow the N15 reduce in frequency as past Barking the high freq to Romford is not needed. I'd say a new night route is required, that should see areas like Upminster, Hornchurch, Elm Park, Dagenham East, Becontree Heath and Dagenham Heathway served; and have the night route stick to the A13 until Canning Town. The N550 stands at 45-50 mins journey time. A simple trip up the A13 and Heathway to stand at Becontree Heath would barely add 20 minutes to the route, and would give the N15 considerable relief that the overbussing past Barking would likely stop. I'd like to note that a significant amount of passengers disembark at Barking Town Centre on the N15 to then get an EL1. If the N550 were to be extended via the A13 then customers would have the option of alighting at Barking by-pass. And I bet my top dollar that the 2 bus trips (N15 to town centre and EL1 home) would most probably be 1 as people would choose to walk home from there.
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 10, 2016 20:08:29 GMT
The 214 is every 20 minutes between Midnight and 5AM. Perhaps it should be given double deck vehicles The 30-minute service on the N205 should be increased to 20 minutes Is there any procedure for drivers working at night to report excessive loadings and for such reports to be seen by those who can do something about it? I have seen this negative view of London's Night Bus network on the web QUOTE A London night bus, 'a must for all fans of vomit, paranoid schizophrenics and R&B played through tinny mobile-phone speakers'. UNQUOTE Shock horror ignorant commentators make trite remarks about the night bus network. I don't use night buses very much but I've used various different ones and never felt unsafe. I've felt a bit "out of place" being stone cold sober amongst so many inebriated people but you can that experience at 2000 hrs in the City on a Friday night! The N205 is already x20 at weekends when it is busiest. It can still be busy. Stagecoach London 15106 N205 Liverpool Street by plcd1, on Flickr It is worth remembering that TfL do have night time supervisors, Centrecomm works 24 hours a day and can view queues at stops via CCTV. TfL also gets detailed card validation data by stop and I-Bus data will show where buses are paused at stops or in traffic for long periods. Furthermore I would expect operators to gather their own "intelligence data" about usage, dwell times etc so they challenge payment deductions made by TfL. If the service is performing badly due to factors outside of their control then they will want to know and use in their defence against "incorrect" payment deductions. Why do a lot of Omnicitys have only the destination blind light working?
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 10, 2016 22:06:35 GMT
The SPs on the N3 got hammered proper. Rode on one which then started from Victoria and was rather loop routed via the present 73 to Oxford Circus then as it does now as far as Beckenham Junction (i rode it as far as Brixton assuming it went that way from Victoria via the 2). The driver had maximum acceleration in forth* gear up park lane with the engine sounding like its at 2200 rpm, approximately 50-55 miles per hour. The best way to describe the SP on performance is to imagine the sounding of a euro2 DLA but with 270bhp and a musically nice sounding ZF box. I also once made the stupid mistake of turning up for work at Victoria Garage for 06:00 when it should of been 16:00. Going back towards the Northern Line i took an SP on the N79 which floored it along Vauxhall bridge road, which seems to suggest another night route that had a lot of step-entrance bus thrashing. I don't remember of the top of my head but i believe the SPs were also use on the N35. Also a number of drivers didn't like driving them as it requires quite a bit of muscle to stop the buses (throttle power was there but not quite the non-ABS brake power). * - top gear on those batch Those SPs must've had some serious clout, as those speeds certainly can't be reached along Park Lane with an uprated TA! I know the N3 did go to Chislehurst once upon a time. Connex certainly never made it that far so I wonder if it did so until the end of its time with LC? Re the brake pedal, sounds a lot like the V reg Tridents that followed on the 3s. +1 on the presence of SPs on the N35 (haven't seen in the flesh but have seen pictures). No doubt they got around on the night routes because they could make up time in a way that Ts (mostly) couldn't. Little discussed on here but there were some pretty serious reliability issues on the pre-2000 night bus network and fast buses could be slipped out onto routes with traditionally more 'ploddy' types. I am told by a local to the N2 that in MTL days the ex-London Suburban Olympians (latterly 4, 271 and W7) were known to slip out in place of Metrobuses. Leaside unofficially allocated its route 253 Olympians to the N83 during the later years of SFs tenure on that route. I can only imagine. Some of the routes seemed pretty far flung, doing large one way loops at their extremities. Probably only with one bus on the route too, so any delays or breakdowns and that was it! Those SPs sound pretty decent with their 270hp rating. I definitely would have had one of those over anything LT era if I was a night driver back then! Could they have been the fastest accelerating buses in London's history?
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Post by M1104 on Apr 12, 2016 7:23:20 GMT
The SPs on the N3 got hammered proper. Rode on one which then started from Victoria and was rather loop routed via the present 73 to Oxford Circus then as it does now as far as Beckenham Junction (i rode it as far as Brixton assuming it went that way from Victoria via the 2). The driver had maximum acceleration in forth* gear up park lane with the engine sounding like its at 2200 rpm, approximately 50-55 miles per hour. The best way to describe the SP on performance is to imagine the sounding of a euro2 DLA but with 270bhp and a musically nice sounding ZF box. I also once made the stupid mistake of turning up for work at Victoria Garage for 06:00 when it should of been 16:00. Going back towards the Northern Line i took an SP on the N79 which floored it along Vauxhall bridge road, which seems to suggest another night route that had a lot of step-entrance bus thrashing. I don't remember of the top of my head but i believe the SPs were also use on the N35. Also a number of drivers didn't like driving them as it requires quite a bit of muscle to stop the buses (throttle power was there but not quite the non-ABS brake power). * - top gear on those batch Those SPs must've had some serious clout, as those speeds certainly can't be reached along Park Lane with an uprated TA! I know the N3 did go to Chislehurst once upon a time. Connex certainly never made it that far so I wonder if it did so until the end of its time with LC? Re the brake pedal, sounds a lot like the V reg Tridents that followed on the 3s. Those SPs sound pretty decent with their 270hp rating. I definitely would have had one of those over anything LT era if I was a night driver back then! Could they have been the fastest accelerating buses in London's history? They were the business on performance, although baring in mind that when I was on that SP the driver had used full acceleration for pratically the whole of Park Lane from Hyde Park to Marble Arch, fortunate enough to have a clear road with all approaching lights on green. That would give more than enough time for a good uprated Connex Trident to reach those speeds. I'm not sure if the speed cameras were about back then as this would have been around the mid 90s. I don't know what the SP's torque settings were in conjunction with horsepower but I remember them being able to gearhold up to 2200rpm on the kickdown. Also the gear ratios to me appeared more stretched than on the Tridents, B7TLs and B10Ms (SPs taking that bit longer to change up in comparison but still with kick-butt acceleration). As for the fastest bus? I believe the SPs would have good competition against the VC class Stockwell had before they were governed as the latter had slightly quicker pullaway. Unfortunately I don't know that their torque settings were either. Could be that the SP would be able to close the gap and overtake the VC. Would've love Jeremy Clarkson to have tested them out. I must also add that from the London Transport days BN (then TC) based Metrobus M1104 was probably the ultimate business on acceleration as the pullaway was just as instant as the VC with a whole lot of power and quick engine revv up. The axle whining noise (like with DB250s) when up quicker, giving further audio evidence of superior thrashing over the other 1441 Metrobuses. Getting slightly back on topic (as I've seriously drifted off), the major disadvantage of SPs on the N35 was their single door entrance. Imagine what it would be like nowadays at Shoreditch.
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Post by John tuthill on Apr 12, 2016 9:36:56 GMT
Whoops, I realised I was on about the 35 lol. Only night ones I've seen in the flesh was when MTL London operated the 2 with M's, the original N109 under London Central with T's & the N3 with SP's. Never rode any so no idea if they got hammered. The SPs on the N3 got hammered proper. Rode on one which then started from Victoria and was rather loop routed via the present 73 to Oxford Circus then as it does now as far as Beckenham Junction (i rode it as far as Brixton assuming it went that way from Victoria via the 2). The driver had maximum acceleration in forth* gear up park lane with the engine sounding like its at 2200 rpm, approximately 50-55 miles per hour. The best way to describe the SP on performance is to imagine the sounding of a euro2 DLA but with 270bhp and a musically nice sounding ZF box. I also once made the stupid mistake of turning up for work at Victoria Garage for 06:00 when it should of been 16:00. Going back towards the Northern Line i took an SP on the N79 which floored it along Vauxhall bridge road, which seems to suggest another night route that had a lot of step-entrance bus thrashing. I don't remember off the top of my head but i believe the SPs were also use on the N35. Also a number of drivers didn't like driving them as it requires quite a bit of muscle to stop the buses (throttle power was there but not quite the non-ABS brake power). * - top gear on those batch Remind me what the speed limit is in Park Lane?
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2016 10:18:17 GMT
Remind me what the speed limit is in Park Lane? 100 mph if you're driving a gold car from Saudi Arabia 60 mph if you're a demon bus driver 40 mph for everyone else [1]. [1] I double checked Streetview.
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 15, 2016 12:31:50 GMT
They were the business on performance, although baring in mind that when I was on that SP the driver had used full acceleration for pratically the whole of Park Lane from Hyde Park to Marble Arch, fortunate enough to have a clear road with all approaching lights on green. That would give more than enough time for a good uprated Connex Trident to reach those speeds. I'm not sure if the speed cameras were about back then as this would have been around the mid 90s. I don't know what the SP's torque settings were in conjunction with horsepower but I remember them being able to gearhold up to 2200rpm on the kickdown. Also the gear ratios to me appeared more stretched than on the Tridents, B7TLs and B10Ms (SPs taking that bit longer to change up in comparison but still with kick-butt acceleration). As for the fastest bus? I believe the SPs would have good competition against the VC class Stockwell had before they were governed as the latter had slightly quicker pullaway. Unfortunately I don't know that their torque settings were either. Could be that the SP would be able to close the gap and overtake the VC. Would've love Jeremy Clarkson to have tested them out. I must also add that from the London Transport days BN (then TC) based Metrobus M1104 was probably the ultimate business on acceleration as the pullaway was just as instant as the VC with a whole lot of power and quick engine revv up. The axle whining noise (like with DB250s) when up quicker, giving further audio evidence of superior thrashing over the other 1441 Metrobuses. Getting slightly back on topic (as I've seriously drifted off), the major disadvantage of SPs on the N35 was their single door entrance. Imagine what it would be like nowadays at Shoreditch. With respect to the single doors, I expect similar to what occasionally happens now - an announcement is made at Liverpool Street or London Bridge to say the bus will not be stopping to let anyone on or off until the Elephant. Sometimes this is enacted without the announcement. All very unofficial of course One of the night drivers at Abellio who was on the 3 for donkey's years told me there was a bus with dot matrix blinds at Camberwell that would leave cars for dust when pulling away from lights, sometimes to the spoken surprise of other motorists. I wonder if it could have been one of the SPs? I recall a dot matrix Titan at Q but I can't imagine it would have been able to move like that. Another with long service fondly recalled the VCs on the 196 before they were restricted, claiming to have done Brixton to Norwood Junction in 12 minutes or so with one. The SP would probably be getting into its stride in the mid 30s though to be honest, I think the B10M would hold its own against one. Sounds like the SPs had similar gear ratios to the Euro 3 SPs of today. 2nd goes up to 28mph, 3rd to 40 and 4th to 54. Not having much luck on Youtube finding a ZF DB250 with kickdown use, but I agree the ZF box is rather tuneful on that chassis. I never realised just how fast the V reg Tridents are - 0-37mph (full revs in 3rd) in 12.5 seconds on the flat is pretty fast for a bus. Voithers upshift at the same speed, yet even the DB300s take at least 15 seconds to reach that speed.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 15, 2016 15:57:38 GMT
They were the business on performance, although baring in mind that when I was on that SP the driver had used full acceleration for pratically the whole of Park Lane from Hyde Park to Marble Arch, fortunate enough to have a clear road with all approaching lights on green. That would give more than enough time for a good uprated Connex Trident to reach those speeds. I'm not sure if the speed cameras were about back then as this would have been around the mid 90s. I don't know what the SP's torque settings were in conjunction with horsepower but I remember them being able to gearhold up to 2200rpm on the kickdown. Also the gear ratios to me appeared more stretched than on the Tridents, B7TLs and B10Ms (SPs taking that bit longer to change up in comparison but still with kick-butt acceleration). As for the fastest bus? I believe the SPs would have good competition against the VC class Stockwell had before they were governed as the latter had slightly quicker pullaway. Unfortunately I don't know that their torque settings were either. Could be that the SP would be able to close the gap and overtake the VC. Would've love Jeremy Clarkson to have tested them out. I must also add that from the London Transport days BN (then TC) based Metrobus M1104 was probably the ultimate business on acceleration as the pullaway was just as instant as the VC with a whole lot of power and quick engine revv up. The axle whining noise (like with DB250s) when up quicker, giving further audio evidence of superior thrashing over the other 1441 Metrobuses. Getting slightly back on topic (as I've seriously drifted off), the major disadvantage of SPs on the N35 was their single door entrance. Imagine what it would be like nowadays at Shoreditch. With respect to the single doors, I expect similar to what occasionally happens now - an announcement is made at Liverpool Street or London Bridge to say the bus will not be stopping to let anyone on or off until the Elephant. Sometimes this is enacted without the announcement. All very unofficial of course One of the night drivers at Abellio who was on the 3 for donkey's years told me there was a bus with dot matrix blinds at Camberwell that would leave cars for dust when pulling away from lights, sometimes to the spoken surprise of other motorists. I wonder if it could have been one of the SPs? I recall a dot matrix Titan at Q but I can't imagine it would have been able to move like that. Another with long service fondly recalled the VCs on the 196 before they were restricted, claiming to have done Brixton to Norwood Junction in 12 minutes or so with one. The SP would probably be getting into its stride in the mid 30s though to be honest, I think the B10M would hold its own against one. Sounds like the SPs had similar gear ratios to the Euro 3 SPs of today. 2nd goes up to 28mph, 3rd to 40 and 4th to 54. Not having much luck on Youtube finding a ZF DB250 with kickdown use, but I agree the ZF box is rather tuneful on that chassis. I never realised just how fast the V reg Tridents are - 0-37mph (full revs in 3rd) in 12.5 seconds on the flat is pretty fast for a bus. Voithers upshift at the same speed, yet even the DB300s take at least 15 seconds to reach that speed. The only dot matrix buses in the area were the four standby night bus T's - all were based at Q from memory and by day were found usually on the 35, 40 & 45 but by night, they would sit at Victoria waiting for something to become unfit for service. T's, L's & M's can get up to fast speeds if maintained - ask Ensignbus about M1 lol. The VC's were quick, even after being restricted but I'd say even back then, you'd struggle to do Brixton to Norwood Junction in 12 minutes - back then, going through Herne Hill towards Norwood Junction involved running via Rymer Street & Railton Road and the Railton Road signals at Herne Hill were only on for around 5 seconds so you'd have to be extremely lucky IMO.
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Post by portman227 on Apr 17, 2016 11:52:45 GMT
They were the business on performance, although baring in mind that when I was on that SP the driver had used full acceleration for pratically the whole of Park Lane from Hyde Park to Marble Arch, fortunate enough to have a clear road with all approaching lights on green. That would give more than enough time for a good uprated Connex Trident to reach those speeds. I'm not sure if the speed cameras were about back then as this would have been around the mid 90s. I don't know what the SP's torque settings were in conjunction with horsepower but I remember them being able to gearhold up to 2200rpm on the kickdown. Also the gear ratios to me appeared more stretched than on the Tridents, B7TLs and B10Ms (SPs taking that bit longer to change up in comparison but still with kick-butt acceleration). As for the fastest bus? I believe the SPs would have good competition against the VC class Stockwell had before they were governed as the latter had slightly quicker pullaway. Unfortunately I don't know that their torque settings were either. Could be that the SP would be able to close the gap and overtake the VC. Would've love Jeremy Clarkson to have tested them out. I must also add that from the London Transport days BN (then TC) based Metrobus M1104 was probably the ultimate business on acceleration as the pullaway was just as instant as the VC with a whole lot of power and quick engine revv up. The axle whining noise (like with DB250s) when up quicker, giving further audio evidence of superior thrashing over the other 1441 Metrobuses. Getting slightly back on topic (as I've seriously drifted off), the major disadvantage of SPs on the N35 was their single door entrance. Imagine what it would be like nowadays at Shoreditch. With respect to the single doors, I expect similar to what occasionally happens now - an announcement is made at Liverpool Street or London Bridge to say the bus will not be stopping to let anyone on or off until the Elephant. Sometimes this is enacted without the announcement. All very unofficial of course One of the night drivers at Abellio who was on the 3 for donkey's years told me there was a bus with dot matrix blinds at Camberwell that would leave cars for dust when pulling away from lights, sometimes to the spoken surprise of other motorists. I wonder if it could have been one of the SPs? I recall a dot matrix Titan at Q but I can't imagine it would have been able to move like that. Another with long service fondly recalled the VCs on the 196 before they were restricted, claiming to have done Brixton to Norwood Junction in 12 minutes or so with one. The SP would probably be getting into its stride in the mid 30s though to be honest, I think the B10M would hold its own against one. Sounds like the SPs had similar gear ratios to the Euro 3 SPs of today. 2nd goes up to 28mph, 3rd to 40 and 4th to 54. Not having much luck on Youtube finding a ZF DB250 with kickdown use, but I agree the ZF box is rather tuneful on that chassis. I never realised just how fast the V reg Tridents are - 0-37mph (full revs in 3rd) in 12.5 seconds on the flat is pretty fast for a bus. Voithers upshift at the same speed, yet even the DB300s take at least 15 seconds to reach that speed. V327 KGW, distinctively remember that vehicle, never will I forget how effortlessly that vehicle reached 40mph, felt less than 15secs, and nowadays that's a ultimate challenge to MCVs. I've always known DB300's to be the fastest vehicles to 30 but the uprated connection tridents was just too much
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 25, 2016 9:57:35 GMT
Now look at the N15: every 7-8 mins at weekends when that level of enhanced service is not needed past Faircross. But TfL are more than happy to overbus this section instead of providing another all night service in the Dagenham area (it always throws me off when people say the N15 goes to Dagenham. They're right, it goes to the most northern point; and that's all the residents of the entire Dagenham area see in terms of a night bus). If the same level of resources were given to the N35 that the N15 got, then there'll be no problem at all. I worked on that frequency increase for the N15. The conclusion was that an increase of 2 buses per hour was required between Central London and Barking. On busy corridor routes, it is of fundamental importance that buses arrive at even intervals to make the best use of available capacity. A deviation from Fair Cross to Barking was investigated - let's call it the N515 for argument's sake. Imagine 600 people an hour wish to travel east of Aldgate and 100 people can travel on each bus. In each scenario, 8 buses turn up per hour. If 8 N15s (total capacity: 800) arrive at even 7.5 minute intervals, each will be 75% full. Busy, but everyone gets on without having to wait for another bus. If 6 N15s (total capacity: 600) arrive at even 10 minute intervals, each will be 100% full. In theory, you'll get 2 N515s per hour which are almost empty. In practice, twice an hour you'll get a pair of buses arriving at Aldgate together, one of them hardly carrying any people. Sods law dictates that these lightly loaded buses will be N15s which have punched the N515s from Trafalgar Square. Ultimate result is people wanting Dagenham can't get on the bus! The N551 suffers a similar problem at times. It is possible to have buses every 7.5 minutes from Central London to Fair Cross, with every 4th bus being a N515 to give a 30 minute service to Dagenham. The problem is, you end up with some 15 minute gaps between Fair Cross and Romford, which isn't acceptable - especially towards the end of service when workers need to get into Central London. This is replicated on weeknights, only at lower frequencies. Perhaps the best solution is to have a highly relabile, high frequency corridor route like the N15, with a 24 hour route meeting it and connecting Dagenham with other parts of East London.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 25, 2016 11:45:26 GMT
I worked on that frequency increase for the N15. The conclusion was that an increase of 2 buses per hour was required between Central London and Barking. On busy corridor routes, it is of fundamental importance that buses arrive at even intervals to make the best use of available capacity. A deviation from Fair Cross to Barking was investigated - let's call it the N515 for argument's sake. Imagine 600 people an hour wish to travel east of Aldgate and 100 people can travel on each bus. In each scenario, 8 buses turn up per hour. If 8 N15s (total capacity: 800) arrive at even 7.5 minute intervals, each will be 75% full. Busy, but everyone gets on without having to wait for another bus. If 6 N15s (total capacity: 600) arrive at even 10 minute intervals, each will be 100% full. In theory, you'll get 2 N515s per hour which are almost empty. In practice, twice an hour you'll get a pair of buses arriving at Aldgate together, one of them hardly carrying any people. Sods law dictates that these lightly loaded buses will be N15s which have punched the N515s from Trafalgar Square. Ultimate result is people wanting Dagenham can't get on the bus! The N551 suffers a similar problem at times. It is possible to have buses every 7.5 minutes from Central London to Fair Cross, with every 4th bus being a N515 to give a 30 minute service to Dagenham. The problem is, you end up with some 15 minute gaps between Fair Cross and Romford, which isn't acceptable - especially towards the end of service when workers need to get into Central London. This is replicated on weeknights, only at lower frequencies. Perhaps the best solution is to have a highly relabile, high frequency corridor route like the N15, with a 24 hour route meeting it and connecting Dagenham with other parts of East London. Just reinvent the N95. www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/night/n095.htmlMore seriously I understand your point but given population increases in Barking and Dagenham there must come a time when a demonstrably better service into Dagenham is needed. A sensible solution would be to create a Night 174 or Night 175 but that's stymied at the Romford end of things where they'd overlap with the N365 and N86. I assume TfL would not wish to curtail the N86 in Romford Town Centre as it'd been three buses for those travelling from west of Stratford to north / east of Romford Town Centre. We must wait to see how well or badly the weekend N145 performs and if there is sufficient use to persuade TfL to make it nightly.
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 26, 2016 12:34:23 GMT
Your posts were really lovely to read; but the underlined sentence is the very juxtaposition as to why these plans look beneficial for some but hinder other users of the N35. There is demand from the Clerkenwell corridor; a sizable chunk of it are stragglers that the N55 and 243 cannot pick up. If buses aren't late and aren't bunched together (yeah yeah, I know! ), at weekends the N35 is a useful relief route, worst case scenario. I am a young person who engages in such social activities at night. And annoying part is even if I'm not on a night out, somehow I gravitate towards Shoreditch at nights as an interchange point. I know that, if people at night on the eastern section of Old Street cannot locate a bus stop within eyeshot; and then be reassured that they can get a bus at least the majority of the way home, then they plant their feet and wait there until the Uber driver comes to the rescue. Imagine if at least half the revellers were to get private cabs home. People who go out round there it's fair to say have enough disposable income for a cab, and wouldn't hesitate to do so if they're not up for a sluggish trek home. Feeling kinda repetitive so I best get on with the sobering truth. This quote, combined with something said from a previous post compels me to think these changes are a disaster waiting to happen. Passengers south of the river lose a night link that goes through the heart of the City but the Tottenham Court Road-Shoreditch link is severed for improvements elsewhere on the N35, I understand that. The N35 gets a 7-8 min headway from Shoreditch to Brixton as it's where the most demand is seen on the route; I get that too. What I don't get is having the route end and start in Shoreditch thinking it's going to improve the reliability of the route; it won't. If the 47 had a high frequency service at night then it could be used for referencing sake. But the 24 hour 35 even with 8phb will be no match to the traffic that sees Shoreditch plagued with on party nights. Furthermore, the stragglers that the N35 used to pick up from the Old Street/Clerkenwell section with force themselves onto the already packed buses of the N55 and 243, should they wish to seek the 35 at Shoreditch. Long story short this reorganisation of resources isn't what's needed, more investment is. If TfL were smart, they would have the every 7-8 min headway on the N35 but instead have the reduced section, every 15 mins between Old Street and Tottenham Court Road (because of the differing route structure between the 35 and N35 at Shoreditch). If the unrestricted Enviros were still around lool, use the Clapham Common- Clapham Junction bit to make up time. I subconsciously think of the changes in frequency of the N35 with that of the N15, as those buses had their Olympics frequency retained unlike other routes.. That's obviously because they needed the increase, to anyone who has used any or both routes. Now look at the N15: every 7-8 mins at weekends when that level of enhanced service is not needed past Faircross. But TfL are more than happy to overbus this section instead of providing another all night service in the Dagenham area (it always throws me off when people say the N15 goes to Dagenham. They're right, it goes to the most northern point; and that's all the residents of the entire Dagenham area see in terms of a night bus). If the same level of resources were given to the N35 that the N15 got, then there'll be no problem at all. The biggest problem I think in general for TfL but in particular for the N35 is having to do more with less. Unfortunately it just doesn't work in some cases. It's not much of an ending this paragraph, but then again I didn't intend to sit at my PC for 3 hours trying to convey how much TfL are so out of touch with the travelling needs of night bus users. If only the top bosses swapped their statistical analysis for a 'hands on' experience and hopped on a bus; they'll be able to make rash decisions with more information. But it seems the ethos of Transport for London is to listen to the numbers and ignore the people...information bias is rife. To be fair to TfL, a fair few decent night bus schemes have gone in in recent years to address growing levels of demand in Shoreditch. The 243, N8, N26 and N55 have all had frequency increases. The 47 was 24 houred and the N205 was rerouted to serve Shoreditch (yes, I know that was incidental but still) before getting a frequency increase. The N35 is a controversial withdrawal, because its the only south London route that serves the southern edge of Hoxton, with a catchment that on weekends, generates consistent loads of 20-50% before the bus reaches Shoreditch High Street station. It's a shame a case couldn't have been identified to retain the service. With regards to the route's performance, I think it's a difficult one to get it right. The traffic in Shoreditch is variable and unpredictable from weekend to weekend. The weekend after New Years will see buses sitting at every stop in Shoreditch for 3-5 minutes then doing 10mph to Clapham Junction. Other weekends will see buses stuck in the Shoreditch section for over 30 minutes whilst the minicabs wait to unite with their drunk and disoriented customers. Low frequency doesn't really work with the route on weekends - mileage can be cut without penalty if it's caused by traffic delays, which means Abellio will seek to maximise the number of checkpoints hit on time by turning buses at Clapham Common or skipping the Camberwell section. High frequency would have seen buses turned at Liverpool Street at a moment's notice if the traffic and driver/passenger disputes in Shoreditch create gaps in the service. I'd like to see what Go Ahead do with it and how they deal with the Shoreditch traffic. They seem less gung-ho with the indiscriminate curtailment of buses.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 26, 2016 13:39:11 GMT
To be fair to TfL, a fair few decent night bus schemes have gone in in recent years to address growing levels of demand in Shoreditch. The 243, N8, N26 and N55 have all had frequency increases. The 47 was 24 houred and the N205 was rerouted to serve Shoreditch (yes, I know that was incidental but still) before getting a frequency increase. The 149's weekend service was also doubled at the same time as the 243. Interestingly the night routes running via Old Street / City Rd - 43, 76, 214 and 271 - haven't seen any increases.
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 26, 2016 16:35:02 GMT
To be fair to TfL, a fair few decent night bus schemes have gone in in recent years to address growing levels of demand in Shoreditch. The 243, N8, N26 and N55 have all had frequency increases. The 47 was 24 houred and the N205 was rerouted to serve Shoreditch (yes, I know that was incidental but still) before getting a frequency increase. The 149's weekend service was also doubled at the same time as the 243. Interestingly the night routes running via Old Street / City Rd - 43, 76, 214 and 271 - haven't seen any increases. None of those routes at least touch Bishopsgate; that means they cannot add to the relief of that corridor & probably won't as this unprecedented passenger uptake require service that go further than London Bridge. By general consensus everyone seems to understand unprecedented demand for the night bus services in Shoreditch is on the eastern side of Old Street. All other bus stops are essentially safety nets in the hopes revellers can make their way home, preferably with a short, quick interconnection. For example, when I sit on an N205 eastbound it would stop outside Shoreditch Fire station and fill up almost to capacity. Then as soon as it gets onto Shoreditch High Street significant numbers would alight (if not there, then probably Liverpool Street). Those passengers (and it's fair to say when someone hops on a night bus they would go more than a couple stops; a couple miles maybe); passengers wishing to travel across the river jump on the N205, filling it to the brim, leaving the genuine passengers for east London waiting for another service. That's the problem I've noticed on that particular route, especially on weekends when bunching is very common. But hey ho, that's another Shoreditch night route for you! In reference to The Urbanite, Go Ahead are kings of introducing me to every possible turn for a route!! Their technique if I can ponder is to use turns that are within short distances of each other; and pretty much have a through service and a turned service in conjunction with each other. From what you've said about Abellio's ditching of the Clapham Common-Clapham Junction section; it seems to me that they were not willing to turn on the TCR to Shoreditch section for profit maximisation reasons. I've never seen a turn north of the river for N35; at best a bus terminating at London Bridge or Elephant & Castle and drivers told by controllers to run light to Tottenham Court Road. I have my reservations about GAL as an overall company but welcome their robustness in trying to maintain a decent level of service if their buses are delayed. The question is: if the last leg of the Clapham journey has a big distance between turns, and the eastern leg of the route has 4 turns from London Bridge to Shoreditch [Monument & Liverpool Street included]; then how long is it until GAL supposedly turn buses due to *"unforeseen delays" and it ends up that theoretically less than 5bph actually see Shoreditch??? *For the most sarcastic quotation mark ever given. Tell a night bus driver 'I want you to drive through Shoreditch this weekend and I want you to be on time!' and (s)he'll be quivering in their boots.
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