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Post by greenboy on Jan 2, 2020 11:45:30 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction.
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Post by george on Jan 2, 2020 11:53:20 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction. I've only ever heard bad things about Northern since Arriva took over.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 2, 2020 11:57:55 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction. I've only ever heard bad things about Northern since Arriva took over. In fairness I'm only an occasional user being a Londoner but when I have used them they've been abysmal and those complaining can't all be wrong.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 2, 2020 14:42:55 GMT
I've only ever heard bad things about Northern since Arriva took over. In fairness I'm only an occasional user being a Londoner but when I have used them they've been abysmal and those complaining can't all be wrong. It only seems to be the west of the Pennines that are the issue, the Yorkshire and North East are generally OK, as far a TOC expectations go. A lot of the issues in the NW, stem from National Rail failing to deliver infrastructure improvements stipulated in the franchise, either delayed or cancelled. The NW has it roots in the Northern Spirit franchise and the rest Arriva Trains Northern franchise. The Northern Spirit contracts are for 6 days working, which they won't change, so Sundays us reliant on staff volunteering to work, which has on many weekends let to lots of services being cancelled. This is also the big issue of advertising a Xmas day working staffed by volunteers ... Which is better, having no scheduled service, or having a scheduled service which get massively cut due to lack of volunteers?
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Post by vjaska on Jan 2, 2020 14:50:19 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction. I have no opinion on this as I've used one Arriva run train ever but would urge some caution on them being definitely stripped of the franchise - the wording of what Schapps has said both in the article and on the news earlier suggests it isn't 100% in the direction of losing the franchise - a renegotiation of the contract with various demands to meet could equally happen from the news coverage I watched earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 16:52:35 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction. I have no opinion on this as I've used one Arriva run train ever but would urge some caution on them being definitely stripped of the franchise - the wording of what Schapps has said both in the article and on the news earlier suggests it isn't 100% in the direction of losing the franchise - a renegotiation of the contract with various demands to meet could equally happen from the news coverage I watched earlier. I read this on the BBC as well and a management contract really is the best option to get them through to, I can only assume a contract break clause. Arriva ultimately saves face albeit with more losses to come.
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Post by rif153 on Jan 2, 2020 18:14:52 GMT
Great news, Northern really are appalling and FTPE aren't much better, I realise things won't change overnight but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction. I've only ever heard bad things about Northern since Arriva took over. Likewise. It seems a sensible move to sanction northern as they haven't done a good job. Given the renegotiation I wonder if this is now a move towards more Government regulation on railways, where franchises are failing, but avoidance of renationalising franchises where possible, as doing so makes the government look ridiculous. This does also smell of a thank you present from the Conservatives to their new northern voters.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 2, 2020 18:54:02 GMT
In fairness I'm only an occasional user being a Londoner but when I have used them they've been abysmal and those complaining can't all be wrong. It only seems to be the west of the Pennines that are the issue, the Yorkshire and North East are generally OK, as far a TOC expectations go. A lot of the issues in the NW, stem from National Rail failing to deliver infrastructure improvements stipulated in the franchise, either delayed or cancelled. The NW has it roots in the Northern Spirit franchise and the rest Arriva Trains Northern franchise. The Northern Spirit contracts are for 6 days working, which they won't change, so Sundays us reliant on staff volunteering to work, which has on many weekends let to lots of services being cancelled. This is also the big issue of advertising a Xmas day working staffed by volunteers ... Which is better, having no scheduled service, or having a scheduled service which get massively cut due to lack of volunteers? There seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction about TPE in Scarborough.
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 2, 2020 22:18:55 GMT
I have no opinion on this as I've used one Arriva run train ever but would urge some caution on them being definitely stripped of the franchise - the wording of what Schapps has said both in the article and on the news earlier suggests it isn't 100% in the direction of losing the franchise - a renegotiation of the contract with various demands to meet could equally happen from the news coverage I watched earlier. I read this on the BBC as well and a management contract really is the best option to get them through to, I can only assume a contract break clause. Arriva ultimately saves face albeit with more losses to come. I think a management contract or a direct award will be the most likely outcome and vjaska is right to urge some caution - the media did originally mis-report this to make a headline out of nothing, and what Shapps said was not the direction of them losing the franchise, but the beginning of that process. If the franchise was really being stripped we would be seeing an official statement released by Arriva by it. However, if they were to strip the franchise from them, am I the only one who uses their services often and thinks it will be an absolutely ludicrous decision? Sacking the train operator will not solve anything, and here's why. Yes, the trains might be delayed most of the time but around 85% of the delays are infrastructure related, and this is the responsibility of Network Rail, NOT the train operator. Most of these delays usually happen around Manchester, as although the Ordsall Chord has helped to relieve some of this congestion around Manchester Piccadilly (before TPE services to the airport from the north had to reverse, now they can run straight through), there is too much congestion between Deansgate and Manchester Piccadilly, an area known as the Castlefield Corridor, especially when freight services from Trafford Park come into the equation, which there are a lot of. Originally this was planned to be doubled from two tracks to four and two extra platforms were meant to be built, however this has since been shelved and since the May 2018 timetable change this has been needed more than ever, with TPE running more services through there. I travel that way every time I go to Manchester and it really does remind me of the Thameslink core section due to the sheer amount of trains that run through it and the fact it runs through the City of Manchester. In Huddersfield, Leeds and the rest of Yorkshire the services seem to be fine, but delayed infrastructure projects such as electrification across the north and building extra platforms at Leeds really haven't helped matters and this is why Network Rail should be the ones getting their act together. Strikes are another reason why the Northern franchise isn't doing well, and this again is not directly Northern's fault. Wasn't it the government who specified in the ITT or franchise commitments that DOO or something similar should be implemented with new trains? Nearly all operators have had this issue too, most notably Southern who were the first to experience such issues. Who remembers back in early 2017 when Chris Grayling said the same thing about Southern, that they were looking to strip the franchise from them due to their delays when really this was caused by infrastructure and strikes? They didn't in the end and stuck with them, and although the May 2018 timetable change was a major failure, now that those issues have been ironed out, and the Thameslink Programme now completed, their services are running more reliably. I have seen way fewer cancellations over the past 12 months than they were back in 2016/17 now that they've made it through this difficult period. Northern are also currently in the process of introducing their new Class 195 and 331's into service, as well as receiving cascaded DMU's from other operators to try and replace its Pacers by yesterday. So many new trains across the north entered service over the course of 2019. Unfortunately this hasn't happened due to issues with the new stock, but once again this isn't Northern's fault - its the responsibility of CAF who are building these trains. They've also had delays with the new MK5's for TransPennine Express and the Caledonian Sleeper and TransPennine Express's Class 397's so they're not the only ones affected. I would agree and say that the Class 150/153/155 and 156 fleet aren't the best either especially after their refurbishments, they have been given a rather cheap refurbishment IMO, and none of the Class 153's are even PRM compliant yet. The Class 150's in particular will not be able to cope with the demands of today's passengers during the peak hours, as their high density and rather squashed seating layout leaves limited standing room, and even after refurbishment on the 150/1's in particular, they still feel very dated onboard. Most of them still have their original low backed seating from the BR days! What needs to be done on these units is a major internal refurbishment on a similar scale to the SWR 455's which are identical to the 150's which has high back seating in a 2 by 2 low density layout to allow for more standing passengers. This is something that Northern need to sort, otherwise the Class 150's will become as disliked as the Pacers in a few years time. I would say the same for their 319's, however they are now in the process of being withdrawn. One thing to notice though was that although some units had been refurbished fully, most of them had not been done internally. A few of them still had Thameslink seating! Finally if they were to strip the franchise off Northern, why isn't TPE receiving the same treatment? They are currently the worst performing operator in the country and I have to use them on a regular basis. Every train I've caught apart from the slow Huddersfield to Leeds and Manchester service has been delayed by more than 10 minutes as of late, mainly due to external issues. One delay however was caused by the train leaving the depot late, resulting in it being 30 minutes late, and as I was coming home from uni and had a connection to make in Leeds, this was absolutely unacceptable (I did make an earlier service thankfully). They have already had to cancel a few trains from their new December timetable as not enough staff have been trained on the new trains yet, and Class 350's which should be transferring to London Northwestern Railway are having to remain for a little while longer. This isn't the biggest issue though in my opinion. The overcrowding on nearly all North TransPennine services, especially on Manchester Airport trains with passengers having to cram onto packed three carriage Class 185's is unacceptable. I know the Nova fleet are meant to reduce this, and they do the job very well from what I've seen, but their delayed introduction has screwed things over for them. Stripping the train operators of their franchise is not the right way to go IMO, and whilst it could be a good thing that the Northern franchise is being renegotiated, more investment needs to be made in improving the infrastructure in the north of England and the government has promised to do that. Once this is done, new trains are introduced and the strikes are resolved, then the performance of both Northern and TPE should start to improve. TPE's should improve drastically once the section between Huddersfield and Dewsbury is doubled from two to four tracks and the route between Huddersfield and Leeds electrified from 2022. This should ideally extend down to Stalybridge and Manchester Victoria in order to electrify the whole section.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 3, 2020 14:43:25 GMT
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 12, 2020 14:03:12 GMT
There are several Northern 331s and TPE 397s in service now.
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 28, 2020 18:10:12 GMT
There are several Northern 331s and TPE 397s in service now. I guess these will go into public hands. A company similar to LNER, run by the Government, will take over. They are looking into the mess with Southeastern and South Western as well. Perhaps this beats Corbyn's promise to re-nationalise the railway if they do it first Keolis-ran Transport for Wales is in trouble too. I guess only the good ones will be left, such as C2C (Trenitalia) and Avanti. Arriva Rail London (Overground) has no issue. Even the Midlands franchise is being watched, according to Rail News www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/27-northern-franchise-likely-to-end.html
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 28, 2020 19:01:49 GMT
There are several Northern 331s and TPE 397s in service now. I guess these will go into public hands. A company similar to LNER, run by the Government, will take over. They are looking into the mess with Southeastern and South Western as well. Perhaps this beats Corbyn's promise to re-nationalise the railway if they do it first Keolis-ran Transport for Wales is in trouble too. I guess only the good ones will be left, such as C2C (Trenitalia) and Avanti. Arriva Rail London (Overground) has no issue. Even the Midlands franchise is being watched, according to Rail News www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/27-northern-franchise-likely-to-end.html I think the difference is that the Conservatives will look to caretake the franchise until they can find another company or consortium to take it on. If Jeremy Corbyn were in charge he would simply keep the franchises in state ownership and not put them out to tender.
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 28, 2020 21:39:42 GMT
I guess these will go into public hands. A company similar to LNER, run by the Government, will take over. They are looking into the mess with Southeastern and South Western as well. Perhaps this beats Corbyn's promise to re-nationalise the railway if they do it first Keolis-ran Transport for Wales is in trouble too. I guess only the good ones will be left, such as C2C (Trenitalia) and Avanti. Arriva Rail London (Overground) has no issue. Even the Midlands franchise is being watched, according to Rail News www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/27-northern-franchise-likely-to-end.html I think the difference is that the Conservatives will look to caretake the franchise until they can find another company or consortium to take it on. If Jeremy Corbyn were in charge he would simply keep the franchises in state ownership and not put them out to tender. Sad, but true... Northern by Arriva was known as Arriva Northern during its last tenure, which was riven with strike action (around 2001)... that was terminated as well. But there are so many either giving profit warnings as if they may not cope the length of the franchise, or the service is awful, such as South Western Railway. Perhaps they would struggle to woo a similar private firm when the time comes if being sacked off a franchise is fresh in their memory It is a mess. One franchise went GNER, to Virgin, to East Coast (government run), to Virgin, to LNER (government run)... it looks as if most of the franchises will need some sort of intervention soon. Perhaps they will bring them all back under BR, and have a TfL style system of private firms running services under a preferred livery on shorter contracts
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Post by T.R. on Jan 29, 2020 8:22:33 GMT
Announcement due today regarding the future of the Northern franchise...
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